Was the Chinese Revolution a Communist Revolution? And some other questions

[robear]

Lately I've been learning a bit about Chinese Revolution (1946-1952), and have been wondering if it could be considered Communist Revolution. According to my understanding, most Chinese at the time were peasants.

Does this fact alone mean that the Chinese revolution was not Communist?

Some other questions.

Did the peasants/proletariat have control over the means of production after the revolution and the establishment of the PRC?

How well did Mao Zedong understand Marxism and Communism?

What did Mao Zedong get wrong?

And finally, what do you consider some of Mao Zedong's achievements?

I would appreciate hearing various perspectives on the above questions. I don't mean to cause contention on this subject. I am just genuinely curious about how you view the Chinese Revolution. Thanks!

[goalkeeper]

Lately I've been learning a bit about Chinese Revolution (1946-1952), and have been wondering if it could be considered Communist Revolution. According to my understanding, most Chinese at the time were peasants.

Does this fact alone mean that the Chinese revolution was not Communist?


The answer is of course highly contested.

From what i remember of Maoist theory, it would not be strictly true to call 1949 the Communist/Socialist revolution, but a revolution of the broad masses creating a democratic peoples dictatorship under the guidance of the Communist party, and it turned socialist later. Perhaps someone else can clarify this further

You will also find some "all encompassing" Marxist-Leninist types around the groups like PSL, WWP, or CPGB-ML etc who will also say yes it was a Communist revolution. Old Moscow aligned Marxist-Leninist parties will also say it was, I think, but may be a bit more critical due to the schism between Beijing and Moscow in the 1960s.

So called "Orthodox Trotskyists" from groups like the IMT, Sparts etc will say it was not a Communist revolution, but it did introduce a planned economy and was/is therefore a "deformed workers state" in which a political revolution still needs to be carried out to create genuine workers democracy

"Third Camp" Trotskyists and (i think) Left Communists etc will say it was not a Communist revolution because it was carried out by a peasant army; a Communist revolution requires the self-emancipation of the working class itself, not a Peasant army marching into industrial areas proclaiming socialist revolution.

[TheGodlessUtopian]

Lately I've been learning a bit about Chinese Revolution (1946-1952), and have been wondering if it could be considered Communist Revolution. According to my understanding, most Chinese at the time were peasants.

Of course it was a communist revolution: it was lead by a communist party with socialist goals in mind (such as abolishing capitalist mode of production). Peasants were the backbone of the Peoples Liberation Army but they were led by proletarian ideas and worked in conjunction with the working class. The end results was a system of social progress that matched that of china's conditions.


Does this fact alone mean that the Chinese revolution was not Communist?This is a major point to understand in order to understand the revolution in China: that before socialism had been established there was a period called New Democracy where, as I understand it, bourgeois democracy was allowed a certain degree of freedom before being pushed along to socialism; this amount of democracy was allowed because it was needed before being launched into socialism.




Did the peasants/proletariat have control over the means of production after the revolution and the establishment of the PRC? Of course, why wouldn't they? While it was a constant battle to ensure took control of their workplaces, more so in the backword areas, the working class gradually seized control of the Means of Production while the peasantry became proletarian.


How well did Mao Zedong understand Marxism and Communism? As a youth trying to find his way in city life. He gradually moved towards Marxian communism but it was a long process.


What did Mao Zedong get wrong? Lots, most prominently was the Great Leap forward.


And finally, what do you consider some of Mao Zedong's achievements? Establishing the basics for the highest yet evolution of revolutionary theory. Other than that he inspired a generation of youth and brought unity to a people on the brink of subjugation.


I would appreciate hearing various perspectives on the above questions. I don't mean to cause contention on this subject. I am just genuinely curious about how you view the Chinese Revolution. Thanks!No problem, you are bound to get many opinions. If you have any further questions feel free to PM me or join the Peoples War usergroup.

[Comrade Jandar]

Was it proletarian in nature? Definitely. Whether or not it was a socialist revolution is debatable.

[robear]

Could you please elaborate on that point, Comrade Jandar?

[goalkeeper]

Was it proletarian in nature? Definitely. Whether or not it was a socialist revolution is debatable.

How can it be "proletarian" if it was a peasant army marching into the industrial regions where the proletariat actually was, proclaiming revolution. Surely a proletarian revolution would require the revolution being carried out by the proletariat itself?

[goalkeeper]

this amount of democracy was allowed because it was needed before being launched into socialism.


what specifically did this "democracy" allow which meant socialism was now a possibility? What in 1949 was that needed for socialism that was achieved during "new democracy"?

[Let's Get Free]

Lately I've been learning a bit about Chinese Revolution (1946-1952), and have been wondering if it could be considered Communist Revolution.

it didn't lead to communism, so why call it a communist revolution? There was nothing socialist about the Chinese revolution of 1949. It was a move against a particular FORM of capitalism that - because of its subjugation to Western imperialism, and because of the enormous corruption o the landlord class - stood in the way of further capital accumulation.



Did the peasants/proletariat have control over the means of production after the revolution and the establishment of the PRC?


No. the state - not the workers, not the peasants - stepped in, to enforce capital accumulation itself. The workers remained an exploited class, and the peasants remained an exploited class as well, only under a different kind of exploiting class.


How well did Mao Zedong understand Marxism and Communism?

It can't really be said that Maoism has anything to do with communism. It is in essence a variety of "revolutionary nationalism", a method of freeing the neo-colony from foreign domination. They are fought in the interests of the national petty bourgeoisie allied with the workers and the peasants.


What did Mao Zedong get wrong?

The "Cultural Revolution" was probably his biggest mistake, and cost his regime dearly.


And finally, what do you consider some of Mao Zedong's achievements?


Mao was a great bourgeois revolutionary, in the sense that the revolution he lead set the stage for China to become a capitalist superpower.

[Conscript]

I think it was a bourgeois democratic revolution, and represented the 'anti imperialist' national bourgeoisie stalin was looking for (in the wrong place of course).

The real question is whether it could've been turned into a permanent revolution that spread to other less developed nations. The presence of the USSR and its domineering interests probably would've stopped that though, like a bigger greece.

[Rusty Shackleford]

Yes it was a communist revolution that did establish a basis for building socialism. The revolutionary process was a long one that was intertwined with the nationalist revolution in 1911 and evolved from then into different factions with programs that also evolved over time.

The beginning of the Red Army (in 1927-29 IIRC) in China could be the starting point of the Revolutionary(or civil war, how ever you prefer to name it) War in China.

There had been various communist led workers actions including taking over cities but because of lack of clarity, understanding, and orientation on the part of the communists, they failed.

The extermination campaign kicked off in '27 and the communists were pushed into the country side.

Mao along with others argued the necessity of a peasant based movement because of the objective reality of China, it was predominantly agrarian.

With the formation of the Red Armies, they established Soviet Districts where they began to build socialist government and economies even during the war.

One of the main points of the war in the 30s was to try to build a united anti-japanese front because at the time Japan was being given massive concessions by the KMT government and warlords. This did materialize in the late 30s but it obviously disintegrated wit the end of WWII and again war broke out.

No, it was not a text-book revolution. None are. But it did in fact establish socialism in China.

What happened as a result of the sino soviet split and the events of the 70s is a whole different story, but the revolution itself was a massive victory for the working class and peasantry world wide.

Also: read Red Star Over China. Fantastic book.

[robear]

I've actually read Red Star Over China, and enjoyed it. Thanks for setting some time aside and responding to my post.

[Rusty Shackleford]

I've actually read Red Star Over China, and enjoyed it. Thanks for setting some time aside and responding to my post.

i guess most of what i had written was not no information then haha. :lol:

I have a decent stack of books on China that i need to read at some point.