Combating reactionary nonsense in HS

[Rational Radical]

So today i started my second semester/3rd quarter in High School where i finished participation in government : public policy(with an angry republican who i got along with despite his views) and started economics.Now my economics teacher, who i had in 10th grade for global history and had a good relationship with prior to my political development, starts going over the basics of economics.He then asks students to state their political positions in regard to economics,limiting it to "democratic" Keynesianism(himself being one) and republicanism. When my turn came,i had a minor inner conflict about telling him that i was a libertarian socialist until i decided to muster up enough courage in myself to say "what if you aren't either ? ",he replied "well what's your ideology ?" and i described it as being a libertarian socialist with a marxist viewpoint on the capitalist mode of production(was immediately alienated by my classmates). He gave me a stern look and said " economics could be simplified in dealing with pizza(i'm thinking no the hell it cant,here come's the loaded question) for example if you have eight slices in a pie and the ninth person walks in the party late,how would you as a marxian 'libertarian'(yes,sarcastic gestures and all) socialist deal with that?" Hinting that it was a loaded question,i simply said "we'd have access to the tools to produce another pie" and he replied fair enough. I hope this didnt put a dent in our relationship but it probably did, has anyone had similar experiences? Also what should i do to fight off that weird feeling of announcing you're a communist/socialist/anarchist?(trust me i've explained it well enough to many people for them to say things like "well i never thought about it like that" and converted some friends of mine).

[Conscript]

Just don't bother, like at all. Not even at college either unless you got a decent circle to discuss it with.

Though that question is dumb and can be raised against economies in general, how do we deal with scarcity? The answer all have, and socialism will also have, is allocating more labor to production of the good. Not to mention, capitalism will always suffer from scarcity more than socialism because it's based on commodity production, instead of production of use values and abundance of them.

[o well this is ok I guess]

"Why, as a party of nine people, did we consciously order a pizza only edible by eight?"

[Rational Radical]

Just don't bother, like at all. Not even at college either unless you got a decent circle to discuss it with.

Though that question is dumb and can be raised against economies in general, how do we deal with scarcity? The answer all have, and socialism will also have, is allocating more labor to production of the good. Not to mention, capitalism will always suffer from scarcity more than socialism because it's based on commodity production, instead of production of use values and abundance of them. and to be honest it's this form of questioning that leaves me speechless because it's such a dumb way of putting and if you don't fire back with a quick reply you're perceived as losing the debate.

[Rational Radical]

"Why, as a party of nine people, did we consciously order a pizza only edible by eight?" he was saying if a friend who i didnt or forgot to invite came.

[Questionable]

Sorry but your teacher's example is stupid, as are most attempts to simplify economics down to analogies. Marxian Economics, and economics in general, is too complicated to be boiled down to some dumb question about pizza slices, simple as that.

[Decolonize The Left]

I'll be honest, I was really high through most of high school. But what I can tell you is that it's next to impossible to have a reasoned debate with anyone in high school during a class - unless, that is, the teacher is really, really amazing. These type of teachers are hard to find and judging by your post, your teacher isn't that cool.

I would steer clear of such debates unless you feel the environment is accepting enough to not hurt you later on. Even in college it's difficult, although easier on the whole.

That said, props to you for speaking your mind! You should be proud as that takes courage in the face of authority and peer pressure. Cheers.

[Sand Castle]

Rational Radical, can I call you Double R? Too bad, I'm going to.

I think your response to your teacher's question was pretty damn good. Quite sharp, even.

I became a Marxist in high school too. I was 15 going on 16. We'll just say 16 because by birthday is in March and I decided I liked Marxism in January that year. Anyway, I know what you are going through.

I don't know how long you have been into this stuff, but as a 6 year red, I can tell you it isn't that bad. It isn't like you are lecturing a bunch of Tea Partyers. Or perhaps my views on your situation are are all rosy because I have seen worse situations.

Communication is important, whether high school or college or someplace else. People in general don't know how to communicate without coming off as jerks, or so it seems. So practice communicating your various points of view, whether it's on politics, or economics, or the best sex positions, or whatever. You'll be prepared when the time comes and you will handle tough situations like the pizza question much better.

Remember to be nice, don't insult people. Think before you speak. Put things in terms an audience that isn't as knowledgeable as you can understand. So keep it simple. It isn't desirable to narrow down something as complicated as economics into metaphors about pizza parties, but that is often the only way people will understand it. So you may have to suck it up and dumb things down so people understand your economic position. If they are truly interested or care about the topic (or your opinion) they will approach you and you can talk with them more. If they don't care, then it doesn't really matter what you say. Remember that talking politics can often result in some overly-excited asshole interrupting you. Brace yourself for that, so you can quickly ask them to wait so that you can finish your points. Yes, there are people who will interrupt you and generally be assholes. There isn't anything you can do about that unless the teacher is committed to ensuring mature conversation.

When I was in high school, there were a few people I could talk to about communism and politics. They didn't necessarily agree with me, but they were still mature about it and we had good conversations. Everybody else didn't give a shit who was a conservative or who was a socialist. I guess as you get older you become more attached to your views and so it's hard to have conversations with people you don't agree with. You slip into the "this is the only way" state of mind. Though I could be wrong about that.

In college, I found people who would agree with me. There are a little more who would listen to me than in high school. The difference is that the people who I could talk to in high school were nice, but everyone in college is a fucking jerk (capitalist and anti-capitalist). So enjoy high school while you can because life only gets worse and worse.

Then again, a lot of people in college can be hardheaded and overly-closed-minded because they are new "converts" (if you will) to their beliefs, and the new converts are always the most passionate and the most dogmatic and the most annoying.

[goalkeeper]

If he is a good teacher you shouldn't worry about that exchange ruining your relationship with him; he should be pleased to see some debate within the class

[radical_subjectivity]

Also be aware that it's generally possible to fight the police/regulatory atmosphere of the classroom in passive-aggressive/subtle ways, taking your little stands here and there. Teachers are treated like shit, if you express through essays, tests, etc. how you feel like you're treated like shit you can usually build some solidarity.

[redblood_blackflag]

Just don't bother, like at all. Not even at college either unless you got a decent circle to discuss it with.

Though that question is dumb and can be raised against economies in general, how do we deal with scarcity? The answer all have, and socialism will also have, is allocating more labor to production of the good. Not to mention, capitalism will always suffer from scarcity more than socialism because it's based on commodity production, instead of production of use values and abundance of them.


If three people put three apples each into a pot, they can only take three apples out, each, without one of them being shorted.