Lib Dems condemn MP's criticism of Israel ahead of Holocaust Memorial Day

[Dennis the 'Bloody Peasant']

Should he have saved the criticism for the different day or is it acceptable to link the two events to make the point?

The Liberal Democrats have "condemned" their MP David Ward for his "use of language" in a statement about Israel's treatment of Palestinians, issued ahead of Holocaust Memorial Day.
On his website, Mr Ward said he was committed to "honouring those who died during the Holocaust".
But he accused "the Jews" in Israel of "inflicting atrocities on Palestinians... on a daily basis".
A Lib Dem spokesman said the remarks were a matter of "deep regret".
Mr Ward, MP for Bradford East, has "signed a Book of Commitment in the House of Commons, in doing so pledging his commitment to Holocaust Memorial Day", his website said, on a page which has since been taken down.
'Regret'
This Sunday - Holocaust Memorial Day - marks the 68th anniversary of the liberation of Auschwitz concentration camp, where more than one million people died.
Mr Ward's website describes Auschwitz as "the Nazi concentration and extermination camp which is the site of the largest mass murder in history".
The website indicated that the MP supported efforts "to combat prejudice and racism today" by the Holocaust Educational Trust.
But Mr Ward added: "Having visited Auschwitz twice - once with my family and once with local schools - I am saddened that the Jews, who suffered unbelievable levels of persecution during the Holocaust, could within a few years of liberation from the death camps be inflicting atrocities on Palestinians in the new State of Israel and continue to do so on a daily basis in the West Bank and Gaza."
A Lib Dem spokesman said: "This is a matter we take extremely seriously. The Liberal Democrats deeply regret and condemn the statement issued by David Ward and his use of language which is unacceptable."

(BBC History)

[Vladimir Innit Lenin]

Using the phrase 'the jews' is pretty insensitive, though I suspect he knew exactly what he was doing.

Yeah there is always a wider point to make about Israel, but he's an idiot for using that phrasing at that time.

[l'Enfermé]

What if in 1960 a Brit said:
"I am saddened that the French, who suffered unbelievable levels of persecution during the WWII, could within a decade of liberation from Nazi occupation, be inflicting atrocities on Algerians in North Africa and continue to do so on a daily basis"
Would that be racist too? The Nazis killed almost 30 million Soviets, mostly East Slavs, the Holocaust is nothing compared to Nazi butchering of Soviets. What if the example were about Russians and the atrocities perpetrated during the closing chapters of WWII and the years after? Would that be racist?

As far as bourgeois ideology goes, the government of a democratic nation-state represents the relevant nation and all of its actions are done in the name and with the approval of said nation. Westerners accept that Israel is a democratic nation. Westerners also accept that Israel represents the "Jewish people". If Westerners then also accept that Israel has been perpetrating a terrible crime against the indigenous population of Palestine since 1947, then it is "the Jews" who are responsible.

[Vladimir Innit Lenin]

No, it's more like saying 'I can't believe those muslims are all terrorists'.

By saying 'the jews', it makes every jew feel personally responsible. So yeah, just as you wouldn't dare say 'all muslims', 'all hindus', 'all Americans' or whatever, please don't equate jews with Israelis. Not all jews are israelis, not all israelis are jews, judaism doesn't inform the racist ideology of successive israeli governments, and to insinuate so is pretty crass anti-semitism.

[Vladimir Innit Lenin]

As far as bourgeois ideology goes, the government of a democratic nation-state represents the relevant nation and all of its actions are done in the name and with the approval of said nation.

I'm a Jew. Don't tell me I approve of that government. Don't tell me that shit is done in MY name. :cursing:

[RebelDog]

Saying that it is 'Jews' per se is clearly racist, but for me, that is not what has caused the hysteria. It is the truth that Palestinians are being subjected to horrendous attrocities on a daily basis, and so it is something you cannot say. The truthful part of his statement has brought him the wrath. Its a crime to talk about the crimes of the powerful.

[l'Enfermé]

No, it's more like saying 'I can't believe those muslims are all terrorists'.

By saying 'the jews', it makes every jew feel personally responsible. So yeah, just as you wouldn't dare say 'all muslims', 'all hindus', 'all Americans' or whatever, please don't equate jews with Israelis. Not all jews are israelis, not all israelis are jews, judaism doesn't inform the racist ideology of successive israeli governments, and to insinuate so is pretty crass anti-semitism.

I'm a Jew. Don't tell me I approve of that government. Don't tell me that shit is done in MY name. :cursing:
no u

I only said that as far as bourgeois ideology goes, what he said isn't racist, because according to bourgeois ideology, the citizens of a "democratic country" are responsible for the actions of its government. If other bourgeois parliamentarians chastise him for what he said, they're being incredibly hypocritical. In order to accuse him of racism, they would have to admit that Israel is not democratic or that the governments of "democratic countries" do not represent their people, and that would get them in all sorts of trouble with their class.

[Vladimir Innit Lenin]

But WE can accuse him of racism, not hide behind 'it's not racist cos they're bourgeois hypocrites'.

Also I dunno, even a bourgeois person from a jewish background is likely to be offended by this. I think the 'muslim' analogy still stands. Whether you view this from a ruling/exploited class perspective doesn't change the fact that Israel is not a state in the name of the jews, it is a state that says it is in the name of the jews to legitimise its persecution on some religious grounds. But really, a lot of jews do not approve of much that the Israeli state does.

[piet11111]

He should have said zionists but to immediately say his usage of "the jews" is discriminatory seems to me at least a bit of a knee jerk reaction used to steer the argument away from the rightful condemnation of zionist agression towards silencing him for supposed antisemitism a slander used frequently against those who oppose Israel's apartheid system.

I do however want to say that i do not know if he actually is anti semitic or not but the reaction towards this MP is fueled more by his critique of Israel then any real or perceived antisemitism.

[l'Enfermé]

But WE can accuse him of racism, not hide behind 'it's not racist cos they're bourgeois hypocrites'.

Also I dunno, even a bourgeois person from a jewish background is likely to be offended by this. I think the 'muslim' analogy still stands. Whether you view this from a ruling/exploited class perspective doesn't change the fact that Israel is not a state in the name of the jews, it is a state that says it is in the name of the jews to legitimise its persecution on some religious grounds. But really, a lot of jews do not approve of much that the Israeli state does.
I'm not saying it's not racist cos they're bourgeois hypocrites(which they are), I'm saying that within the context of bourgeois ideology, his statement is not racist. The racism becomes obvious only when you see through this false ideology and look at it from a socialist point of view.


He should have said zionists but to immediately say his usage of "the jews" is discriminatory seems to me at least a bit of a knee jerk reaction used to steer the argument away from the rightful condemnation of zionist agression towards silencing him for supposed antisemitism a slander used frequently against those who oppose Israel's apartheid system.

I do however want to say that i do not know if he actually is anti semitic or not but the reaction towards this MP is fueled more by his critique of Israel then any real or perceived antisemitism.
There would have been a much bigger shitstorm if he said "zionists "though. Racism is preferable to anti-Zionism in the West. :(