Starting a Conversation or Harassment?

[Manic Impressive]

evil evil men and their evil evil attempts at conversation. what gives them the right to try and talk to me?

I think the only solution is to go back to the good old days when women were treated with respect.



The fan placed near the heart: "You have won my love"
A closed fan touching the right eye: "When may I be allowed to see you?"
The number of sticks shown answered the question: "At what hour?"
Threatening movements with a fan closed: "Do not be so imprudent"
Half-opened fan pressed to the lips: "You may kiss me"
Hands clasped together holding an open fan: "Forgive me"
Covering the left ear with an open fan: "Do not betray our secret"
Hiding the eyes behind an open fan: "I love you"
Shutting a fully opened fan slowly: "I promise to marry you"
Drawing the fan across the eyes: "I am sorry"
Touching the finger to the tip of the fan: "I wish to speak with you"
Letting the fan rest on the right cheek: "Yes"
Letting the fan rest on the left cheek: "No"
Opening and closing the fan several times: "You are cruel"
Dropping the fan: "We will be friends"
Fanning slowly: "I am married"
Fanning quickly: "I am engaged"
Putting the fan handle to the lips: "Kiss me"
Opening a fan wide: "Wait for me"
Placing the fan behind the head: "Do not forget me"
Placing the fan behind the head with finger extended: "Goodbye"
Fan in right hand in front of face: "Follow me"
Fan in left hand in front of face: "I am desirous of your acquaintance"
Fan held over left ear: "I wish to get rid of you"
Drawing the fan across the forehead: "You have changed"
Twirling the fan in the left hand: "We are being watched"
Twirling the fan I the right hand: "I love another"
Carrying the open fan in the right hand: "You are too willing"
Carrying the open fan in the left hand: "Come and talk to me"
Drawing the fan through the hand: "I hate you!"
Drawing the fan across the cheek: "I love you!"
Presenting the fan shut: "Do you love me?"

[Quail]

Stuff
This has been covered extensively in the past, and I don't think this is the place to have a discussion about street harassment because it would derail the thread. Honestly, it's not that hard to distinguish between okay behaviour and intimidating behaviour towards women you don't know. I don't know why you always pop up in threads to complain that men are too dense to know the difference between respectful behaviour and harassment, because if you're making an effort to respect someone's space and feelings, that's a total non-issue. It is usually obvious from someone's body language if they want to continue a conversation or not. If you want to discuss street harassment, by all means make a thread, but we have had this discussion before.

[Manic Impressive]

No you said that you think men are not entitled to talk to you. you didn't mention harassment. Attempting to start a conversation with someone is not harassment. I think your brand of negative feminism is reactionary especially when you say ridiculous things about people not being allowed to start conversations with others. Perhaps you meant harassment and not a conversation? Would you like to revise your original statement?


oh silly me you already have

[Quail]

No you said that you think men are not entitled to talk to you. you didn't mention harassment. Attempting to start a conversation with someone is not harassment. I think your brand of negative feminism is reactionary especially when you say ridiculous things about people not being allowed to start conversations with others. Perhaps you meant harassment and not a conversation? Would you like to revise your original statement?


oh silly me you already have
"Men feel entitled to a conversation with me" is not the same statement as "Men are not entitled to talk to me." The first implies that some men (because it's not all men) feel entitled to a conversation with me even when I do not want one (i.e. they continue to try to have a conversation even when it is clear I don't want to talk to them), whereas the second implies that I think men should never talk to women, which is not my opinion. There's nothing wrong with trying to make conversation in a situation where you're not going to seem threatening to the other person, and if you stop if it becomes clear they don't want to talk to you.

[The Jay]

Even if a man continues trying to have a conversation with a woman that doesn't want to have one, to say that this would be harassment would be a stretch unless your idea of harassment includes simply rude or ignorant behavior. It is possible that I am missing context here.

[Quail]

Even if a man continues trying to have a conversation with a woman that doesn't want to have one, to say that this would be harassment would be a stretch unless your idea of harassment includes simply rude or ignorant behavior. It is possible that I am missing context here.
I'll give an example from my personal experience. A man comes up to me in the street, and begins by asking whether I'm a student, what I'm studying, etc. I reply politely, although I wish I had just ignored him. He then asks for my number, and I say no. He then asks for my number again, and repeatedly tells me I should give him my number and come out with him for "drinks and fun times," despite me repeatedly saying no and trying to walk away. (He doesn't physically stop me, but he stands in front of me and persists in talking to me to keep me there.) I'm alone and it's going dark, and I feel extremely uncomfortable. I finally just walk off quickly and feel as though I have to keep checking over my shoulder to be sure he isn't following me.

I think that everyone should be able to walk around without being made to feel unsafe, and I think that making someone feel unsafe and uncomfortable by repeatedly trying to engage them in conversation that they are clearly not interested in is harassment. The context here is that this is not an isolated incident. It's quite common for people to shout things at me, or, like that man, ask for my number persistently after I've said no. So, when someone I don't know approaches me I feel threatened because I'm used to strange people approaching me and making me feel uncomfortable and unsafe, not approaching me to make friendly conversation.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

Even if a man continues trying to have a conversation with a woman that doesn't want to have one, to say that this would be harassment would be a stretch unless your idea of harassment includes simply rude or ignorant behavior. It is possible that I am missing context here.

My feeling is that the difference between being rude and harassment in this case is down to how long it takes to convince the man that "I don't want to talk to you" means just exactly what it says.

When I make an advance towards a woman, my expectations are that I will be turned down nearly every time. It seems that the kind of man who would pester a woman long after she has registered her lack of interest suffers from the opposite problem - they seem to think that there is a magic formula for reliably opening womens' legs on their whims.

Where the fuck do these men get such ideas? Haven't they seen other men get turned down or brushed off? What makes them think they're special?

[The Jay]

Yep, he was being a huge asshole. I probably would have maced him to be honest.

[Dennis the 'Bloody Peasant']

Reminds me of that Family Guy bit - James Bond is telling a woman to have sex with him, she says 'no'. He keeps asking, she keeps saying 'no'.
It goes on for a bit until she relents and says 'yes' and Bond says
"50 no's and a yes, means yes"

Anyway, it feels like there are men that just presume that every woman basically (ugh!) 'wants it' and all they have to do is persist. James Bond is perfect example of this mentality; every woman he wants wants him back, it's just a question of when they admit it.
...my sex is rather icky and vile (i'm sure women can be like this too, but it seems to be more of a male trait, to me).

[#FF0000]

Pretty stupid post ratty good job