The eunuchs in India

[Beeth]

One the one hand, they are victims of discrimination. But then, they are also extremely physical, they touch people while talking (on trains, roads, buses etc.) without even considering it is wrong to touch people without permission. This is why they antagonize a lot of otherwise sympathetic people.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

Eunuchs? As in castrated human males?

I've never heard of them having a tendency to touch people - if that is really what eunuchs in India do, then why do they do it?

Somehow I doubt that it has much to do with the direct fact of them being eunuchs.

[Beeth]

Eunuchs? As in castrated human males?

I've never heard of them having a tendency to touch people - if that is really what eunuchs in India do, then why do they do it?

Somehow I doubt that it has much to do with the direct fact of them being eunuchs.

Trust me, I am not at all exaggerating. I wish I were. Because of this, many people hate them, and you can't talk to them about discrimination. When I say touch, I don't even mean some light touch while talking. It is almost like fondling, and they do it as a matter of fact. This has been not only my experience but the experience of many, many people ( almost 100/100 times, you will find similar complaints about them regarding touching, which is why the public doesn't care about their discrimination).

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

Trust me, I am not at all exaggerating. I wish I were. Because of this, many people hate them, and you can't talk to them about discrimination. When I say touch, I don't even mean some light touch while talking. It is almost like fondling, and they do it as a matter of fact. This has been not only my experience but the experience of many, many people ( almost 100/100 times, you will find similar complaints about them regarding touching, which is why the public doesn't care about their discrimination).

You still have yet to explain why they do this, even if I were to accept for the sake of argument that they do. There must be a reason, surely?

[Beeth]

You still have yet to explain why they do this, even if I were to accept for the sake of argument that they do. There must be a reason, surely?

Since it is not an individual thing, we must conclude it is because of culture (else, this behavior won't be so uniform). So culture is the reason as far as I can see.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

Since it is not an individual thing, we must conclude it is because of culture (else, this behavior won't be so uniform). So culture is the reason as far as I can see.

So you think the culture is at fault. That means it could well be the case that their discriminated status informs their culture, which contributes towards their behaviour. In that case is it not nonsensical to reject the idea of solidarity with them as a social group because of that?

[Beeth]

So you think the culture is at fault. That means it could well be the case that their discriminated status informs their culture, which contributes towards their behaviour. In that case is it not nonsensical to reject the idea of solidarity with them as a social group because of that?

If members of a certain group repeatedly perform a type of action which invades your personal space - fondling, aggressive touching, etc. - it may become very hard for people outside of that group to relate to them.

[Rafiq]

nvm

[l'Enfermé]

What? Wait, are you talking about the Hijra (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hijra_%28South_Asia%29)? As in, "In the culture of South Asia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Asia), hijras are physiological males who have feminine gender identity (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_identity), women's clothing and other feminine gender roles (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_roles)"? Are you implying that they are discriminated against because, they, erm, "touch" people?

[Beeth]

l'Enfermé,

It is not as simple as they touch and so people hate them. They freely violate your personal space, keep fondling you even in public places, parks, trains and buses. Their behavior is consistently bad, which doesn't mean they should be discriminated against. But it explains why the public fears them.

Would you like to be on a train looking out the window ... and suddenly three eunuchs walk in and start fondling you as if it's their right? Would you be able to sympathize with such people?

[Beeth]

Learn from these links how eunuchs harass people in India:

http://www.afternoondc.in/city-news/hijra-terror-hits-local-trains/article_5850

http://www.thehindu.com/todays-paper/tp-national/tp-andhrapradesh/railway-police-to-book-cases-against-hijras/article4247923.ece

[Astarte]

The Hijras are sort of the grifters of the third sex ... I would say that they haven't always been so hostile towards larger society though - I think as time went on they sort of were handed more and more of a raw deal, and grifting as well as prostitution are ways they cope with modern capitalism ... its interesting to note that in the Mahabharata, one of the 5 Pandavas, Arjuna, actually spent his last year in exile as a Hijra tutoring a princess in dance and music ... this indicates a time when they were better respected by society ... I would contend the Hijras in India are viewed and thought of in much the same way that Gypsies are in Europe, though of course not so much as an overt "other", but more of an ultra-marginalized sect of Hinduism that stands outside of India's cultural norms.

[The Cheshire Cat]

I don't know much about India, so I am very surprised to hear about this... why the fuck is there a whole culture of eunuchs? Where the fuck do they come from and why are they castrated?!?!

[brigadista]

be careful Beeth, the Hjira have the power to curse as well as bless.........:D:D

[l'Enfermé]

l'Enfermé,

It is not as simple as they touch and so people hate them. They freely violate your personal space, keep fondling you even in public places, parks, trains and buses. Their behavior is consistently bad, which doesn't mean they should be discriminated against. But it explains why the public fears them.

Would you like to be on a train looking out the window ... and suddenly three eunuchs walk in and start fondling you as if it's their right? Would you be able to sympathize with such people?
So you are talking about the Hijra right? Why do you keep on calling them "eunuchs" though? Isn't that a pejorative? I thought only a small part of them get castrated...

If I was sitting on a train, looking out of the window, and 3 anything walked in and started fondling me, I wouldn't like it. Regardless of gender or even species.


Also, lol at this, from the article:


“If we arrest a Hijra, her friends would gather at our chowki and create a ruckus. We can’t even lock them up with other petty criminals as they indulge in indecent behavior in the lock up.”

[Lenina Rosenweg]

I'm not super knowledgeable about the Indian hijra but I have had debates on them with Indian friends. In India hijra are commonly known as "eunuchs", the vast majority of them being castrated males although their are exceptions.They are the Indian expression of a transgender or third sex identity. Indian friends have hotly disagreed that they are the same as "transgendered". being a different phenomena.Hijra are strongly discriminated against.Indian society seems to have a love/hate relationship with them. Hijra play important ritual; roles at weddings but than are basically bribed with gifts in hope they will son leave.

Their predicament may stem from the fact that their role wasn't forbidden by religion as in the West but has been circumscribed by India's rigid family system and of course class society.