Question about white workers

[Unclebananahead]

To what degree are white workers responsible for racism? Additionally, to what degree are male workers responsible for sexism? In case anyone is wondering, I'm not suggesting that they are, or aren't responsible for these things. Some of the people who are in my circle subscribe to the 'privilege theory' and ascribe varying degrees of responsibility to the aforementioned groups for racism and sexism. I would like to know what the arguments and counter-arguments are regarding this.

[Danielle Ni Dhighe]

To me, "privilege" is an ideologically-induced blind spot. Who is responsible for social ideology? The ruling class.

[Unclebananahead]

Sorry if this is a daft question, but could you explain social ideology to me, and how this pertains to sexism and racism?

[Jimmie Higgins]

To what degree are white workers responsible for racism? Additionally, to what degree are male workers responsible for sexism? In case anyone is wondering, I'm not suggesting that they are, or aren't responsible for these things. Some of the people who are in my circle subscribe to the 'privilege theory' and ascribe varying degrees of responsibility to the aforementioned groups for racism and sexism. I would like to know what the arguments and counter-arguments are regarding this.
The relationship of workers towards the oppression of other workers in society can be one of support on the one hand or resistance and solidarity with the oppressed on the other. What they can not do is dictate the systems of oppression: many workers might hate yuppies or hipsters but these groups will not face systematic oppression by police or legislation or custom because - beyond maybe diverting some class anger towards some snobby middle class people - there would be no real benifit for the ruling class to do so under present conditions.

And so for black oppression and women's oppression specifically, there are very clear historical trends which show how the structure of the oppression is set up from the top: creating segregated laws, opinions from eliete cultural instiutions and so on. Once this tierd system is set up, then the competition inherent in wage-labor helps convince some workers to support restricting black-workers to the worst jobs or pushing women or immigrants out of the workforce. The pressures of work give an incentive to a cultural system (set up by Victorian bourgoise moral reformers) where women do all the home-care for free (though obviously this has changed somewhat in the post-women's lib era). This is the logic of believing that we only have the choice of playing by the rules of the game. But it's also ultimately self-defeating logic and so as much as these attitudes are promoted both by capitalist conditions as well as ideology, there is always also a chance for a non-capitalist alternative view of how to deal with these issues: class solidarity to fight for a greater share for all vs. fighting over crumbs; social solidarity with the oppressed, realizing that sexism and racism hold back the entire population as well as the specifically oppressed.

[Poison Frog]

Just looking back on my own experience of working in factories and warehouses, most of the racism I have heard from fellow workers was either based on Islamophobia or a perception of black men as "gangstas" and "pimps". Both of those images are results of the conditions orchestrated by the ruling class.

[Thelonious]

Just looking back on my own experience of working in factories and warehouses, most of the racism I have heard from fellow workers was either based on Islamophobia or a perception of black men as "gangstas" and "pimps". Both of those images are results of the conditions orchestrated by the ruling class.


I really throw some people a curve ball sometimes: I am Black and Latino.

[GiantMonkeyMan]

As a Brit, I always just figured Spanish and Portuguese people were white so I find it weird when people with Spanish/Portuguese ancestry are discriminated against by white racists in America. I think it just really goes to show that all this categorising of groups of people is clearly socially and culturally constructed and, as is clear in capitalism, the ruling class dictate both how society is structured and how culture develops.

[Raúl Duke]

Spanish/Portuguese ancestry are discriminatedIf you mean hispanics from Latin-America...it works oddly in the US.

Overall, there's a cultural xenophobia of all hispanics from white racists/etc that gets pushed when they see/experience Latin-Americans in the US express Latin-American culture, sometimes all one has to do is simply speak Spanish and they get on the edge.

But when it comes to race, it becomes blurry. White Hispanics who can speak good English can navigate without much in ways of discrimination; in fact in many parts (but not all, some are more aware of cultural differences and Hispanics) of the US they're assuming to be "American" unless they start speaking Spanish or something. Those of other shades however, are usually more targeted towards discrimination just by mere appearence.

I find the US has an odd tendency to racialize a broad ethnic category as Latino. To many of them, particularly the ignorant (and most American racists are), Latinos are "brown" which makes invisible the existence of white Latinos. Part of this has to do with the nature of hispanic immigration, outside Miami, most immigrants to the US are Mexican & Central-American mestizos or indigenous.

Most people think I'm American and when I'm tell them I'm from Puerto Rico they seemed confused because I'm not "browner" sometimes (discounting my French-Canadian last name, which also throws them off). Although my father is American, in Puerto Rico there are a lot of white Puerto Ricans just like there are many white Cubans as well.

[Let's Get Free]

I'd say many white workers are shot through with discrimination against people of color. It would be difficult to imagine it to be otherwise after centuries of slavery and a system of education, entertainment, and communication completely dominated by racist doctrines.

[leninstalin1988]

Us Whites are no different then anyone else.. anyone who thinks others have "privilege over others" is very ignorant and possibly racist

[Poison Frog]

I'd say many white workers are shot through with discrimination against people of color. It would be difficult to imagine it to be otherwise after centuries of slavery and a system of education, entertainment, and communication completely dominated by racist doctrines.

"Shot through" with it - that's a good way to describe the situation. The sheer readiness of people to feel fear and suspicion of otherness can seem an insurmountable obstacle to worker solidarity (I know it isn't though).

[Jimmie Higgins]

Us Whites are no different then anyone else.. anyone who thinks others have "privilege over others" is very ignorant and possibly racistI don't agree with privilage theory specifically, but the differences in treatment and experience that are described by privilage theory are correct. I just think the "privilage" analysis is off in understanding why this discrepancy exists and how to effectivly combat it.

White workers certaintly don't have the extra weight of target policing, inherent strikes against them in hiring due to wider cultural perceptions, etc. But it doesn't mean they benifit or have an inherent interest in such a social arrangement or oppression - it just means they are free from the specific forms of oppression in society and mearly face exploitation and repression:lol:. I think that's why the term "privilage" is problematic. A house slave is privilaged relative to a field slave, and he/she may even begin to identify with the master in order to protect that relative privilage, but he/she is still a slave.