Hunger and homelessness in US continue to rise.

[Crypticchronoclasm]

People allways say that socialism and communism are impractical, that it will never work. My friends tell me revolution in america is imposible because the people are happy and do not want it. Well I say if you look hard enough you will find them


Check out this report I found (below)

Hunger and homelessness in US continue to rise in 2003

Hunger and homelessness in the United States continue to rise at double-digit rates in 2003, according to a December 18 report released by the US Conference of Mayors (USCM). In the 25 cities that responded to its survey, requests for emergency food assistance were up 17 percent over last year, while requests for emergency shelter increased by 13 percent on average.
The report cites unemployment and other employment-related problems as the leading cause of hunger, giving the lie to Bush administration claims that an economic recovery is lifting workers out of poverty. While there has been an increase in corporate profits, productivity and stock prices this year, millions of workers remain mired in long-term unemployment and underemployment, with savings and other resources long since exhausted.
Other causes of hunger listed in the report include low-paying jobs, the high cost of housing, medical care costs, substance abuse and mental health problems, reduced public benefits, childcare costs, and transportation expenses.
The leading cause of homelessness is the lack of affordable housing, followed by the lack of needed services for mental health and substance abuse problems, low-paying jobs, unemployment, domestic violence, poverty and prison release.
Continuing the trend of recent years, more families with children as well as the working poor are seeking emergency assistance. Fully 59 percent of those turning to soup kitchens and food pantries this year were children and their parents, while 39 percent of the adults seeking food were employed.
The number of homeless families seeking shelter increased 15 percent in 2003, constituting 40 percent of the overall homeless population. In 15 of the 25 cities surveyed, families may have to break up to be sheltered, while in 12 cities, families usually have to spend the day outside of the shelter they use at night.
Seventeen percent of homeless people work, down slightly from recent years. Five percent are unaccompanied youth, and 10 percent are veterans. Fourteen percent of the shelter population consists of single women, but advocacy groups point out that many of these women are “single” only because they have managed to leave their children with a relative or a close friend.
The average stay in shelters was five months this year. The length of the average stay increased over 2002 in 60 percent of the cities surveyed.
While demand for emergency food and shelter is increasing, the supply in both categories has failed to keep up. Over half of the cities reported having to cut back on the number of bags of food provided, and to limit the number of times people are allowed to receive food. In every city surveyed, families and individuals relied on food assistance both in emergencies and as a steady source of food over long periods. Fourteen percent of those asking for food were denied due to short supply.
The report also documents the lack of sufficient emergency shelter. Thirty percent of applicants for emergency shelter overall, and 33 percent of homeless families were turned away, leaving them to fend for themselves on the streets overnight.
Applications for subsidized housing by low-income families increased this year in 83 percent of the cities surveyed. The average wait for public housing units is 24 months, while the wait for Section 8 vouchers, a federal housing subsidy for approved private rentals, is 27 months. In nearly half the cities, officials had stopped accepting applications for at least one form of subsidized housing because the waiting list is too long.
According to city estimates, low-income households are forced to pay an average of 46 percent of their income on housing, down slightly from 49 percent in last year’s survey. The percentage is much higher in cities with the highest housing costs.
Most US cities with populations of over 1 million are included in the survey, with the prominent exception of the nation’s largest, New York City, and the southwestern metropolises of Houston, Dallas and San Diego. A number of smaller and medium-sized cities also responded to the survey, ranging from Burlington, Vermont, to Salt Lake City, Utah.
In New York City, the situation is no better than elsewhere. The number of people housed in the shelters set a record of 38,638 in one night this month. The number of homeless families stands at 9,211—more than double the number five years ago—and is climbing. This does not count the thousands of people, who, due to the horrible conditions in the shelters, prefer to sleep out in the open, even in winter.
The authors of the USCM report neither draw any conclusions about nor make any recommendations to ameliorate, let alone abolish, the injustice of rising hunger and homelessness in the world’s richest nation. The report does include, however, a number of comments from the surveys. While couched in the carefully worded language of city bureaucrats, these remarks nonetheless point to ways in which today’s starvation conditions are being imposed on the broader sections of workers.
In discussing the poor prospects for next year, a Boston official cites the “termination of unemployment benefits for longer-term unemployed,” referring to the recent refusal of Congress to renew a 13-week federal extension of unemployment benefits that formerly kicked in after the basic 26-week state benefits expired.
Cleveland respondent points to the reduction every month over the last three years in benefits for welfare recipients, a function of the strict two- and five-year time limits imposed by the Clinton administration’s 1996 welfare “reform.”
A Portland, Oregon, official expects “more people will be in lines and on waiting lists” due to state and local budget cuts. “Mainstream social service systems have faced severe declines in funding and have had to make cuts in services even as the needs have grown,” he writes, continuing: “Local sources of revenue to develop and fund truly affordable housing for the poorest are now almost non-existent. The homeless systems and emergency shelters will feel the pressures of these cuts.”
Among other factors, the San Antonio survey response cites “demolition and non-replacement of public housing, zero tolerance housing policies, and low-wage jobs” as fuelling further homelessness. (The zero tolerance policies refer to the practice of evicting whole families from public housing whose children may be charged with minor drug offences.) The San Antonio response also points to the illegal and usurious lending practices plaguing the poor: “The financial inability to access conventional services forces an already exploited population to utilize payday loans, pawn shops, rent-to-own and other predatory vendors.”
Under these circumstances, the outlook for “those on the margins” in America remains bleak. Some 90 percent of the cities surveyed expect both homelessness and hunger to get only worse in 2004.

Now these people dont seem very happy to me

[Se7en]

I recall there being an article in a local newspaper several years ago about a family in the area that was so poor they resorted to collected road kill on several occasions to feed themselves. I doubt that were too happy. I'm a member of middle america and despite the fact that my family is well off, seeing the problems of other families in this country and around the world makes me ill. What's odd is that very few of my friends seem to care about world issues. They go to church and give their tithes and think they're good people who live in the world's greatest country. they've been blinded by our culture. it will take a lot to reverse that.

[Looter]

I noticed that homeless people disappeared from TV when Clinton got elected. Now you see homeless people in the real world. There are many more homeless people now than ever before, but Capitalism has bigger problems. Feeding and housing it's own people is beyond it's ability, it can only kill and destroy.

[Hate Is Art]

I recall there being an article in a local newspaper several years ago about a family in the area that was so poor they resorted to collected road kill on several occasions to feed themselves.

If thats true (not that I doubt you) then that is quite sickening, the land of the free ey. I'm free to live anywhere I want if I could afford a House, I'm free to get a job anywhere I want if only there were some availible.

[ComradeRobertRiley]

yeah thats right digital N

[Rastaman]

its sickening how middle and upper class people are these days (most of them) They all have huge tvs, leather sofas and dolby surround. They go to church pray a bit and throw a buck in to the collection plate. On christmas they give 5 (!) bucks to unicef or other organisation.. After doing so they are good people in the eyes of their own kind.. werd huh?

[JustSoul]

Unlike you i have lived in socalled communist country (USSR).

Just two quick notices.

1)Communism doesnt work.
2)Those hungry can get a work and stop being hungry (Hard of a concept i know).

[LSD]

1)Communism doesnt work.


The USSR was not a communist country, it just played one on TV.



2)Those hungry can get a work and stop being hungry (Hard of a concept i know).


Right, they're all just lazy and prefer to starve. I can't believe anyone still believes this shit. They don't have a job because there are no jobs because (read the article)
"The report cites unemployment and other employment-related problems as the leading cause of hunger."

Wow look at that, Capitalism doesn't work, how "hard of a concept" is that?

[Y2A]

Originally posted by Lysergic Acid [email protected] 3 2004, 02:41 PM
Right, they're all just lazy and prefer to starve. I can't believe anyone still believes this shit. They don't have a job because there are no jobs because (read the article)
Have you ever even lived in an american ghetto? I have for 16yrs of my life(Newark,NJ). And you and the rest of the misguided fools on these boards have no clue what they are talking about. And the fact remains that I could find this same kind of case in any country in the world not just the United States.

[JustSoul]

he USSR was not a communist country, it just played one on TV.

True enough. Because communism is an utopia . And thats exactly why it doesnt work.

Right, they're all just lazy and prefer to starve. I can't believe anyone still believes this shit. They don't have a job because there are no jobs because (read the article)
"The report cites unemployment and other employment-related problems as the leading cause of hunger."

There is always a job. Yes it could be payed very poorly or any other reason why it is a bad job.But its still a job. And please dont tell me i dont know "life". In Russia unemployment rate is high too , but unlike US we have almost no welfare.

[LSD]

(Y2A)
Have you ever even lived in an american ghetto? I have for 16yrs of my life(Newark,NJ). And you and the rest of the misguided fools on these boards have no clue what they are talking about. And the fact remains that I could find this same kind of case in any country in the world not just the United States.


You're right, capitalism is failing all over the world. It has victims in hundreds of countries, good catch.


(JustSoul)
There is always a job. Yes it could be payed very poorly or any other reason why it is a bad job.But its still a job. And please dont tell me i dont know "life". In Russia unemployment rate is high too , but unlike US we have almost no welfare.


So you are actually claiming that these people have decided to starve? As a form of what, inefficient suicide? Very often these "jobs" do not pay enough to afford a home and food and essentials. And so they end up on the street... we're not talking about not being paid enough to afford a goddamn TV, we're talking about jobs that offer such shit pay that you are starving while working them.


(JustSoul)
communism is an utopia . And thats exactly why it doesnt work.

communism is an ideology that has rarely been implemented, but when it has, those under it flourished.
capitalism is an ideology that has often been implemented, and when it has, those under it have suffered.

Between those two options, I'll take communism any day

[JustSoul]

Originally posted by Lysergic Acid [email protected] 3 2004, 03:09 PM


So you are actually claiming that these people have decided to starve? As a form of what, inefficient suicide? Very often these "jobs" do not pay enough to afford a home and food and essentials. And so they end up on the street... we're not talking about not being paid enough to afford a goddamn TV, we're talking about jobs that offer such shit pay that you are starving while working them.


Yes iam claiming that those people have decided to starve (Notice they dont really die of hunger.Welfare etc wont let them). Even poorly payed job is enough to afford home and food.You just have to work 10+ hours a day.

communism is an ideology that has rarely been implemented, but when it has, those under it flourished.
capitalism is an ideology that has often been implemented, and when it has, those under it have suffered.


Its a matter of perception. I and majority of others think abosuletly the opossite. All Real democratic countries are prospering.While all socalled comunist once are dead or starving.

[Hate Is Art]

in communist USSR though you would have been starving with healthcare and jobless with benefits but now I guees your just hungry and plain old homeless.

I've heard that since there is no free health service in Russia anymore STI's have become rampant? Can anyone back that up?



communism is an utopia . And thats exactly why it doesnt work.

Could you tell me why we couldn't live in Utopia? That kind of defeatest attitude will get you no where.

What was harrowing about the article was the fact that in AMERICA yes the AMERICA the best country in the world <_< people are living in these sub-human conditions. What is it going to be like in the 3rd world?

[JustSoul]

I&#39;ve heard that since there is no free health service in Russia anymore STI&#39;s have become rampant? Can anyone back that up?


STI&#39;s? There is still a semi-free health service in Russia. I.e the job is free in most cases , but if you need expensive medicine or tools you have to pay yourself.

Could you tell me why we couldn&#39;t live in Utopia?

Because Utopia is not achievable by defenition.

[LSD]

Its a matter of perception. I and majority of others think abosuletly the opossite. All Real democratic countries are prospering.


If you think America is prospering, you obviously didn&#39;t read the article. Some are prospering in America, rich are prospering in America, and America has a lot of fancy guns, but I am sure as hell glad I don&#39;t live in America.


While all socalled comunist once are dead or starving.

Again, the countries you point to are not communist.



Yes iam claiming that those people have decided to starve (Notice they dont really die of hunger.Welfare etc wont let them). Even poorly payed job is enough to afford home and food.You just have to work 10+ hours a day.

Any theory on their motivation? What, they just don&#39;t realize there are jobs? The underlying concept is insane. Exactly what decision do you concieve of people making? You honestly think that people make the concious choice to starve rather than work? THEY"RE BROKE, what do you tihink they are doing all day? Freezing, dying, starving. You think that is easy? You don&#39;t think they would trade that for a chance at a decent life??

[Hate Is Art]

Could you tell me why we couldn&#39;t live in Utopia?

Because Utopia is not achievable by defenition.

What would be your definition of Utopia? And I am damn certain Utopia is achievable and will one day be echieved, maybe not in the whole world or even during my life time but i am damn sure it will be achieved.

Capitilism will eventually wipe it&#39;s self out.

[JustSoul]

If you think America is prospering, you obviously didn&#39;t read the article. Some are prospering in America, rich are prospering in America, and America has a lot of fancy guns, but I am sure as hell glad I don&#39;t live in America.


Ive read the article and i think America is prospering. There always will be people considered "poor" unless everyone is equal ( Which is a very bad idea). Todays poor in America are not really poor compared to many people in the world.

Again, the countries you point to are not communist.


And again communist country will never function in real life.Communism is an utopia and all attempts to adapt it to real world have failed.

Any theory on their motivation? What, they just don&#39;t realize there are jobs? The underlying concept is insane. Exactly what decision do you concieve of people making? You honestly think that people make the concious choice to starve rather than work? THEY"RE BROKE, what do you tihink they are doing all day? Freezing, dying, starving. You think that is easy? You don&#39;t think they would trade that for a chance at a decent life??


I have never said a decent life. Working hard 10+ hours a day for only food and a place to sleep is not decent. Many people prefer to live of welfare or just starve.

[JustSoul]

Originally posted by Digital [email protected] 3 2004, 03:43 PM


What would be your definition of Utopia? And I am damn certain Utopia is achievable and will one day be echieved, maybe not in the whole world or even during my life time but i am damn sure it will be achieved.

Capitilism will eventually wipe it&#39;s self out.
An impractical, idealistic scheme for social and political reform.

Originaly came from the book wrote 500 (roughly) years ago by Sir Thomas More

[LSD]

I have never said a decent life. Working hard 10+ hours a day for only food and a place to sleep is not decent. Many people prefer to live of welfare


What welfare? The American welfare system has been so drastically cut and rededigned that many do not how to receive what they are entitlted to and those that do receive hardly anything. Recently, more and more restrictions have been place, so its getting even tougher.



or just starve.


Yes they would rather starve than eat. It belies the fallacy of the system you are defending that to protect its image you must argue that there is a significant number of Americans actively labouring to slowly and painfully kill themselves.

[JustSoul]

What welfare? The American welfare system has been so drastically cut and rededigned that many do not how to receive what they are entitlted to and those that do receive hardly anything. Recently, more and more restrictions have been place, so its getting even tougher.


They receive enough . Compare it with Russia where we have almost zero welfare.

Yes they would rather starve than eat. It belies the fallacy of the system you are defending that to protect its image you must argue that there is a significant number of Americans actively labouring to slowly and painfully kill themselves.


Yes they would rather starve then work hard to get food. If you are so delusional that you cant imagine this then its your logical fault. Read "Moon and a Penny" by Somerset Moem.

[LSD]

Yah, you&#39;re right, people in the third world have it worse. In fact there are people all over the world that have it worse. But we are talking about a country that holds itself up as the shinning beacon to the world, that claims to be the model nation. The fact that such living conditions exist within it, wheareas they are not found in countries generally considered less "prosporous" (scandanavia, italy, france, etc....) shows that capitalism does not work.

[JustSoul]

The fact that such living conditions exist within it, wheareas they are not found in countries generally considered less "prosporous" (scandanavia, italy, france, etc....) shows that capitalism does not work

No it doesnt.

First of all the countries you have listed are socialist , but they have adopted majority of capitalist principles. All they have is higher taxed and thanks to that better welfare and stuff like that. Its just a different branch of capitalism.

Second Its all a matter of perespective. You think lazy people should not suffer. I think they should. No not die from hunger ( I havent heard of any deathes from hunger in US) , but suffer.

[LSD]

First of all the countries you have listed are socialist , but they have adopted majority of capitalist principles. All they have is higher taxed and thanks to that better welfare and stuff like that. Its just a different branch of capitalism.


Yes, and those countries have problems as well, but it shows that they are moving in the right direction. It shows that a more liberal economy is not better.



Second Its all a matter of perespective. You think lazy people should not suffer. I think they should. No not die from hunger ( I havent heard of any deathes from hunger in US) , but suffer.


Here we go again.....

One, you are AGAIN assuming that all people that cannot make it in the US are lazy. THE SYSTEM DOES NOT WORK. the people who are making it are not all hard-working honest godfearing Americans, the American Dream is a lie. It is those who are barely struggling to live who are working the hardest. Fighting to fend of hunger for another day. Struggling to find some way to feed their families. They are not lazy, they just cannot find a job which can support them, they can&#39;t get anything from welfare because Bush slashed its budget. They are the ones who suffer, the hardest working.

Two, of the very few who are lazy, you&#39;re right I don&#39;t think they should suffer, not in the way you indicate. I think that society has an obligation to every member to provide a basic living. To provide them with food and shelter and essentials. you would have the arbitrary and variable "maket" decide who lives and who dies. I would have them live.

[Y2A]

Originally posted by Lysergic Acid [email protected] 3 2004, 04:37 PM
One, you are AGAIN assuming that all people that cannot make it in the US are lazy. THE SYSTEM DOES NOT WORK. the people who are making it are not all hard-working honest godfearing Americans, the American Dream is a lie.
Your a dumba&#036;&#036;. I am an example that the american dream does work. My father came here to this country and instead of b&#33;itching and whining like you he worked and worked and earned his way up to middle class living. The fact is that I lived the life you talk about and your full of crap and no matter what you say you won&#39;t change my mind because I actually lived there. But of course live in you fantasy world. Everything the U.S does is evil. Burn your clothes, shoes, computers........wait...... <_<

[LSD]

Yah, some can still wade through the filth. It still isn&#39;t perfect at oppressing the poor, but one example proves nothing. Again, look at who runs the country..... better yet look at who doesn&#39;t. Look at the starving people, the one&#39;s with nothing. Their stories are as rea as yours, only they didn&#39;t have the luck. They work just as hard, but maybe there are less jobs in their region, or maybe their injured, or maybe their fired........ the American dream is a lie because it claims to be possible for EVERYONE. to make it if they work hard enough. it isn&#39;t.

[Y2A]

Originally posted by Lysergic Acid [email protected] 3 2004, 04:55 PM
Yah, some can still wade through the filth. It still isn&#39;t perfect at oppressing the poor, but one example proves nothing. Again, look at who runs the country..... better yet look at who doesn&#39;t. Look at the starving people, the one&#39;s with nothing. Their stories are as rea as yours, only they didn&#39;t have the luck. They work just as hard, but maybe there are less jobs in their region, or maybe their injured, or maybe their fired........ the American dream is a lie because it claims to be possible for EVERYONE. to make it if they work hard enough. it isn&#39;t.
Have you lived a day in the states? Even better have you lived a day in an American "ghetto"? No you have not. You know nothing about the real problems of low class americans you never will. You know nothing you are a pretender trying to seem like the good guy because your probably some rich kid trying to "rebel". I&#39;m tired of wasting my time with you. It&#39;s pointless. You are what&#39;s wrong with america, if you even are american, and it&#39;s not because your a communist it&#39;s because your trying to pretend to be something your not, and I for one am tired of it. I am tired of these damn rich leftist that know nothing about the problems of the REAL american working class.

[JustSoul]

Scandinavian countries are different yes.Some think they are better some think they are worse then US. Once again its a matter of perespective. Personally i prefer something between US&#39;s system and Scandinavian one.

You know your logic is flawed.I can be against nuclear weapons but it doesnt mean iam against ALL kind of weapons. Extrapolation isnt good in real life politics.

And yes everyone in the US who doesnt have enough money for food/bed is either lazy or disabled in some way.I.e dumb , mental desease that wont let him concetrate or whatever else. I agree welfare should provide some basic needs and it does it already. It should be enough just to survive.

[Hampton]

Originally posted by [email protected] 3 2004, 12:08 PM
Have you lived a day in the states? Even better have you lived a day in an American "ghetto"? No you have not. You know nothing about the real problems of low class americans you never will. You know nothing you are a pretender trying to seem like the good guy because your probably some rich kid trying to "rebel". I&#39;m tired of wasting my time with you. It&#39;s pointless. You are what&#39;s wrong with america, if you even are american, and it&#39;s not because your a communist it&#39;s because your trying to pretend to be something your not, and I for one am tired of it. I am tired of these damn rich leftist that know nothing about the problems of the REAL american working class.
You&#39;re the enemy of those living in the ghetto when you fill their heads with this bullshit, just like Robert Kennedy was. You said that your father has worked his way up to the middle class, you haven&#39;t. By your own admission you&#39;re born to the middle class, not the people sleeping on the sidewalk and in apartments with no heat sleeping next to rats.


And yes everyone in the US who doesnt have enough money for food/bed is either lazy or disabled in some way.I.e dumb , mental desease that wont let him concetrate or whatever else. I agree welfare should provide some basic needs and it does it already. It should be enough just to survive.

First thing put spaces in-between your sentences, after a period comes pressing the spacebar twice. Your thought that if you&#39;re poor you must be lazy is completely dumb and simplifying the problem to the easiest degree because you don&#39;t want to look further and want to blame the victim. Thinking that people choose to starve is the stupidest thing I&#39;ve ever heard. People are poor because they can&#39;t find jobs, welfare isn&#39;t enough to pay rent when they want to kick you out to make room for some rich people, gentrification anyone? Why are 500,000 veterans homeless, at some time during a year because they choose not to work? Or because they&#39;re sick but nobody gives a fuck about them?

Example: You go to jail, you get released, you get out and want to look for a job, but hey, nobody wants to hire you because you were poor when you went in so you&#39;re back in the shitty neighborhood looking for a job, but, you have put down that you&#39;ve been to jail on the application, how many people hire ex cons? And this shit happens everyday.


"I don&#39;t see any American dream. I see an American nightmare."

[Hate Is Art]

what are trying to say? You&#39;re arguments are full of shite, are trying to back up the rich? are trying to justify the living conditions of the poor? I&#39;m unsure as to what you are trying to say.

and some cage these ignorant cappies.


edit below:
"It&#39;s called the American dream because you have to be asleep to believe it"

And Just Soul and Y2A I&#39;m not an Anarchist because I want to rebel against my upbringing, I&#39;ll be the first to say I have it good, I&#39;m white, male and live in middle class England, I am an Anarchist because I have allthis and then there are people who are sitting on the street with nothing, I have no need for any major material wealth, If I have my guitar a notebook a roof over my head and food and a girlfriend I would be fine, so I don&#39;t see why people have to live in mansions with 8 cars and horses, 100 000&#036; chandeliers and to stop white, middle-class males exploiting the third world.

[Y2A]

You&#39;re the enemy of those living in the ghetto when you fill their heads with this bullshit, just like Robert Kennedy was. You said that your father has worked his way up to the middle class, you haven&#39;t. By your own admission you&#39;re born to the middle class, not the people sleeping on the sidewalk and in apartments with no heat sleeping next to rats.

Idiot, I lived in the inner city for 16yrs, attended inner city schools, and lived around drug addicts most of my life. I just moved to a middle class neighborhood 2 months ago. God I&#39;m tired of you pretenders. Atleast there are some real communist around here that although I don&#39;t agree with I can respect but you guys are full of crap and you know it.

[JustSoul]

Well if you have to attack my typing style instead of my point fine i will use spaces .

You&#39;re the enemy of those living in the ghetto when you fill their heads with this bullshit, just like Robert Kennedy was. You said that your father has worked his way up to the middle class, you haven&#39;t. By your own admission you&#39;re born to the middle class, not the people sleeping on the sidewalk and in apartments with no heat sleeping next to rats.


Iam pretty sure his father thinks the same?

Your thought that if you&#39;re poor you must be lazy is completely dumb and simplifying the problem to the easiest degree because you don&#39;t want to look further and want to blame the victim

No iam not. I know it for the fact. Hence anyone can get a work at McDonalds or other non-popular work.

Thinking that people choose to starve is the stupidest thing I&#39;ve ever heard

Really? Maybe you are just not bright enough? Again read "Moon and a Penny" by Somerset Moem. Enlighten yourself.

People are poor because they can&#39;t find jobs, welfare isn&#39;t enough to pay rent when they want to kick you out to make room for some rich people, gentrification anyone? Why are 500,000 veterans homeless, at some time during a year because they choose not to work? Or because they&#39;re sick but nobody gives a fuck about them?


Ofcause welfare maybe not be enough to pay for your own home. Find other poor people , cooperate . Rent 1 room for four people or something.

As for veterans.. It has nothing to do with capitalism. Oficially sick people are geting enough money to live without working. And still what kinds of sickness is that so you cant work at all?

[Hate Is Art]

Having you leg broken because your Capitilist Factory owners couldn&#39;t "afford" to get any safety equipment.

[JustSoul]

Originally posted by Digital [email protected] 3 2004, 06:16 PM
Having you leg broken because your Capitilist Factory owners couldn&#39;t "afford" to get any safety equipment.
Wow then dont work there. Or join a union and protest.

[Hate Is Art]

Oh yes because people want to starve don&#39;t they. They also have little regard for their family&#39;s well being so quitting the job is the best out, no of course it damn well isn&#39;t. People are forced to work shit jobs in shit conditions to make money for the capitilists, who take most of earnings. So it&#39;s only logical if the workers own the factorys then there pay will increase as there are no fat cats to take the majority of the earnings.

[Hampton]

Originally posted by [email protected] 3 2004, 12:40 PM
Idiot, I lived in the inner city for 16yrs, attended inner city schools, and lived around drug addicts most of my life. I just moved to a middle class neighborhood 2 months ago. God I&#39;m tired of you pretenders. Atleast there are some real communist around here that although I don&#39;t agree with I can respect but you guys are full of crap and you know it.
So quick with the name calling, tisk tisk. Quick who wants to compare lifestyles and see who comes out the poorest, thus proving that I am the man&#33;?&#33;? Get over yourself, I see coming from a poor background still gives an even poorer outlook on those you left behind and why they&#39;re there. And of course that puts you on this pedestal because "I was there man" and all this other bullshit that qualifies you to be an expert and judge others. And how am I a pretender if you know nothing about me except a few sentences? You say we know nothing about the problems of the working class and yet, you still fail to see the failures of the American dream that you push so eagerly because it worked for you and can&#39;t understand why it doesn’t work for others.


As for veterans.. It has nothing to do with capitalism. Oficially sick people are geting enough money to live without working. And still what kinds of sickness is that so you cant work at all?

It doesn’t? You mean the fact that the government cuts vets benefits has nothing to do with their poverty level?


No iam not. I know it for the fact. Hence anyone can get a work at McDonalds or other non-popular work.

Getting a job there is pointless if it&#39;s money you need to live on. And working 50 hours a week has no point and is unrealistic if you&#39;re trying to survive because you&#39;ll need to work two other jobs to get by. The minimum wage can be raised, provide better education to get better jobs, build better rehab centers so people can get back on their feet.


Really? Maybe you are just not bright enough? Again read "Moon and a Penny" by Somerset Moem. Enlighten yourself.

Ho ho ho, telling me to go read a book is a cop out because you know no one is going to do it so you can think so much higher of yourself. Boo, I&#39;ll wait for a better answer.

[Fidelbrand]

Originally posted by [email protected] 31 2003, 02:15 AM
I recall there being an article in a local newspaper several years ago about a family in the area that was so poor they resorted to collected road kill on several occasions to feed themselves. I doubt that were too happy. I&#39;m a member of middle america and despite the fact that my family is well off, seeing the problems of other families in this country and around the world makes me ill. What&#39;s odd is that very few of my friends seem to care about world issues. They go to church and give their tithes and think they&#39;re good people who live in the world&#39;s greatest country. they&#39;ve been blinded by our culture. it will take a lot to reverse that.
yes,i think that is one of the prima facie things we need to to contemplate if we were to start a revo. Globalization (of captialism) fuels ideological oneness, but information flows link people together... anyway, as people carry a bad sense towards socialism, communism, or even ..welfare states, we certainly need to do a hard job to instil these concepts to the people around us for their deeper thinking.

[Hate Is Art]

Really? Maybe you are just not bright enough? Again read "Moon and a Penny" by Somerset Moem. Enlighten yourself.

Enlightend yourself read some marx.

[JustSoul]

are forced to work shit jobs in shit conditions to make money for the capitilists, who take most of earnings. So it&#39;s only logical if the workers own the factorys then there pay will increase as there are no fat cats to take the majority of the earnings.


Wrong. Noone is forced to work anywhere . Start your own business . And there you go you own a factory. Oh and btw just learn some history.You what happened in the USSR after revolution? Most of intellegent people were shot and uneducated morons aka workers came to rule the "factories" . Needless to say they have failed miserably. Before industralization USSR was way way behind USA and Europe .

It doesn’t? You mean the fact that the government cuts vets benefits has nothing to do with their poverty level?


So your goverment makes a bad decision ( Iam not really informed on the matter so lets say it bad.It may aswell not be but whatever). So you draw a conclusion capitalism suck? In democracy you have a right to protest at least. All you could have done in comunism was bend over and ask for more.

Getting a job there is pointless if it&#39;s money you need to live on. And working 50 hours a week has no point and is unrealistic if you&#39;re trying to survive because you&#39;ll need to work two other jobs to get by.

Working for 50 hours is unrealistic? My father have worked for way more then that at age of 21 ( I was just born). Its kinda funny tho. Do you have any idea how much money do you need to survive in USA? It is way less then you think.Really.

Ho ho ho, telling me to go read a book is a cop out because you know no one is going to do it so you can think so much higher of yourself. Boo, I&#39;ll wait for a better answer.

Haha it&#39;s classic. Every damn educated person MUST read it. There are not so many books in the literature considered as a must-read.And its one of them.

Enlightend yourself read some marx.

Sad thing is that i did.We were forced to do it. So many hours of my life... wasted.

[Soviet power supreme]

Start your own business . And there you go you own a factory

How?The poor people dont have the eductation and money.And do you believe that banks loan money to every poor people in USA?

[JustSoul]

School is free. And ofcause i wasnt really serious. But its still true to a point. Rent a taxi and work as a driver 12 hours a day. Or work at Mcdonalds for a year and save few thousand &#036; and start something small. It is possible.

[Hampton]

Working for 50 hours is unrealistic? My father have worked for way more then that at age of 21 ( I was just born). Its kinda funny tho. Do you have any idea how much money do you need to survive in USA? It is way less then you think.Really.

Working 50 hours on one job then having to work another is unreaslistic, fucking mcdonalds probally won&#39;t let you work that many hours anyway. Since we&#39;re all in the mood for book recomondations here&#39;s a book:

Nickel and Dimed: On (Not) Getting By in America by Barbara Ehrenreich, only an uneducated slob would not have read it. You MUST read it. :rolleyes:


Or work at Mcdonalds for a year and save few thousand &#036; and start something small. It is possible.

:lol: The o&#39;l 10 year plan? I&#39;ll win the lottery too while I&#39;m at it.

[JustSoul]

You may be surprised ive read the book.Its hardly a classical and a must-read literature tho.But yeah its educating in someway.

If you work for 50+ hours a week even for a minimum or near minimum wage you can make a living.Thats a fact.

[LSD]

If you work for 50+ hours a week even for a minimum or near minimum wage you can make a living.Thats a fact.


Again, don&#39;t declare things to be facts. The minimum wage in America is microscopic, and there is no guarantee that one can get a job that even pays that. Often there are none. That is why people are starving and "suffering" in America. But no worry, there are still plenty of people with good lifestyles, you know, rich people. Those who&#39;s families had money. Or maybe the occasional one who came up with a new method or technique of exploitation.

[JustSoul]

Yes thats a fact. I think minimum wage is around 5-6&#036; right? So if you work 50 hours a day it will be around 1200&#036; a month. Sucks but you can live of it.

[Hate Is Art]

Start your own business . And there you go you own a factory

So what makes the poor of the US better equiped to run a factory then the poor of the USSR? Oh and go and read what Russia was like before 1917 and see how succsessfuly Lennin and Stalin were at turning it&#39;s backwards country around.

P.S. I don&#39;t support Stalin so don&#39;t go on about the bull shit ok.

[Hampton]

Originally posted by [email protected] 4 2004, 03:03 AM
Yes thats a fact. I think minimum wage is around 5-6&#036; right? So if you work 50 hours a day it will be around 1200&#036; a month. Sucks but you can live of it.
Can you pay rent, buy food for yourself, buy food for a child, diapers, clothing and a babysitter becuase if you&#39;re working 50 hours a week you won&#39;t be seeing that kid that often. Is it still possible?

And you can&#39;t work 50 hours a day.

[JustSoul]

Ofcause i meant 50+ hours a week. Stupid typo=)

Can you pay rent, buy food for yourself, buy food for a child, diapers, clothing and a babysitter becuase if you&#39;re working 50 hours a week you won&#39;t be seeing that kid that often. Is it still possible?


First of all.Dont make children until you can support them . So all you need is food,some basic clothing and a place to sleep at. And sure 1250&#036; is enough. You want eat in restaraunts and prolly wont have your own room , but you wont starve.

[Hate Is Art]

how can you possibly agree with people in living in sub-human conditions&#33;

[JustSoul]

Originally posted by Digital [email protected] 4 2004, 01:16 PM
how can you possibly agree with people in living in sub-human conditions&#33;
Those conditions are not sub-human. They have food,cloth and a bed. Also they have a place to grow and earn more money. We are taking the worst scenario here .

[Hate Is Art]

they are sub-human, working 50 hours a week, below or on minimum wage then living in a small flat as you suggest with other people. That is very minimum and how can say this is ok is wrong. Most of these people will never get a chance to leave the slums.

[JustSoul]

Originally posted by Digital [email protected] 4 2004, 03:32 PM
they are sub-human, working 50 hours a week, below or on minimum wage then living in a small flat as you suggest with other people. That is very minimum and how can say this is ok is wrong. Most of these people will never get a chance to leave the slums.
No its not sub-human. You obviously have never been to other countries. Including your favourite Cuba. Those condition are not that bad , besides if you do your work right you ll start geting more then that pretty soon.

[Hampton]

Originally posted by [email protected] 4 2004, 04:45 AM
First of all.Dont make children until you can support them . So all you need is food,some basic clothing and a place to sleep at. And sure 1250&#036; is enough. You want eat in restaraunts and prolly wont have your own room , but you wont starve.
You can say don&#39;t have kids until you&#39;re ready but that won&#39;t solve the problem will it? 15 million American children live in poverty so your answer of McDonalds as being the shining light isn&#39;t going to work in every situation.

[Soviet power supreme]

School is free. And ofcause i wasnt really serious. But its still true to a point. Rent a taxi and work as a driver 12 hours a day. Or work at Mcdonalds for a year and save few thousand &#036; and start something small. It is possible.

What do you suggest?Since almost every section of market is taken.If poor people start a business they cant compete with the big corporations which are making their products cheaply in the third world countries.

And you really cant think that every unemploi Us people is lazy.There isnt enough work there.The automatization and companies moving to third world countries is decreasing the jobs all the time.

[JustSoul]

You can say don&#39;t have kids until you&#39;re ready but that won&#39;t solve the problem will it? 15 million American children live in poverty so your answer of McDonalds as being the shining light isn&#39;t going to work in every situation.

I doubt there are 15 million American kids under poverty line. Considering there is no more then 50-60M totall. But still .... If you have a kid without an ability to support him , then its your own fault. However goverment should take care of the kid itself.

What do you suggest?Since almost every section of market is taken.If poor people start a business they cant compete with the big corporations which are making their products cheaply in the third world countries.


Wrong. You can . My father is working in a small russian firm which easily competes on the world market. In some areas it&#39;s impossible to "beat" corporations , but there are lots of areas where coroporations are not cost-effective.

And you really cant think that every unemploi Us people is lazy.There isnt enough work there.The automatization and companies moving to third world countries is decreasing the jobs all the time.


If you are unemployed for more then 3 month its because 1) you are lazy 2) you are untalented and dumb 3) you are not in a hurry to find a job.

[Christopher]

I had to jump in here because so many comments were related to an understanding I&#39;ve developed relating an understanding of our unconscious mind, or how it drives our behaviors within our social agreements.

Se7en wrote:
What&#39;s odd is that very few of my friends seem to care about world
issues. They go to church and give their tithes and think they&#39;re good people who live in the world&#39;s greatest country. they&#39;ve been blinded by our culture. it will take a lot to reverse that. ////

Very common, complacency. Confusion first then apathy. A self-image cultivated by corporate media to reduce guilt and increase involvement.

Rastaman wrote:
its sickening how middle and upper class people are these days (most of them) They all have huge tvs, leather sofas and dolby surround. They go to church pray a bit and throw a buck in to the collection plate. On christmas they give 5 (&#33;) bucks to unicef or other organisation.. After doing so they are good people in the eyes of their own kind.. werd huh?////

We can that the media whore for teaching the masses that consumption is normal and fun.

Lysergic Acid Diethylamide wrote:
Wow look at that, Capitalism doesn&#39;t work, how "hard of a concept" is that?////

Here I have to say that our appreciation of the true meaning of the word has been dumbed down into a stereotypical label. Capitalism for the sake of power is definitely the scourge of the earth.

In reality there is a separate spiritual problem. In some ways it is safe to say that perceptions of Communism suffers from the same. What it comes down to most with governments and social agreements is an understanding of love and how it works with a human beings life to create compassion and understanding.

In short; NO GOVERNMENTAL SYSTEM CAN COMPENSATE FOR THIS DEFICIENCY&#33;

Y2A wrote:
Have you ever even lived in an american ghetto? I have for 16yrs of my life(Newark,NJ). And you and the rest of the misguided fools on these boards have no clue what they are talking about. And the fact remains that I could find this same kind of case in any country in the world not just the United States.////

There is a real desperation in this nation and its cities. We have taught other nations how to behave the same.

JustSoul wrote:
Ive read the article and i think America is prospering. There always will be people considered "poor" unless everyone is equal ( Which is a very bad idea). Todays poor in America are not really poor compared to many people in the world.////

America somewhat prospers in a false economy derived somewhat from the theft of other nations resources. There are other factors that are more noble that contribute as well.

Lysergic Acid Diethylamide wrote:
They are not lazy, they just cannot find a job which can support them, they can&#39;t get anything from welfare because Bush slashed its budget. They are the ones who suffer, the hardest working.

I think that society has an obligation to every member to provide a basic living. To provide them with food and shelter and essentials.////

LSD has a point. I do not think we have grasped how to effect this in a way that does not encourage abuses and exploitation&#39;s of the welfare system. I can make a good case for it coming from the fact that we no longer understand unconditional love as a virtue of our society and the individuals of it.

Y2A wrote:
Your a dumba&#036;&#036;. I am an example that the american dream does work. My father came here to this country and instead of b&#33;itching and whining like you he worked and worked and earned his way up to middle class living.////

People like opportunity to better themselves and the conditions they live in. There is a human resource that America used to use better than it does now. Our many minds can invent new methods and define sacrifices that justify adopting old methods when need be to protect life.

Lysergic Acid Diethylamide wrote:
the American dream is a lie because it claims to be possible for EVERYONE. to make it if they work hard enough. it isn&#39;t. ////

It is a lie. In reality it is possible for NO ONE. The dream is a nightmare version. If we understand the sacred aspects, YES sacred aspects of the US Constitution and the other social agreement it is derived from in nature, we can create a worthy dream here, if we act in time, if we can agree. Agreement is the only meaningful thing to a democracy.

Hampton wrote:
Example: You go to jail, you get released, you get out and want to look for a job, but hey, nobody wants to hire you because you were poor when you went in so you&#39;re back in the shitty neighborhood looking for a job, but, you have put down that you&#39;ve been to jail on the application, how many people hire ex cons? And this shit happens everyday.////

Again, our cities are not good for us. They inure people to the increasing daily suffering of poverty in competition.

Soviet power supreme
What do you suggest?Since almost every section of market is taken.If poor people start a business they cant compete with the big corporations which are making their products cheaply in the third world countries.

We have to take into account the false economy. Oil, cheap oil, cheap transportation, centralization. Get rid of that and suddenly local people can compete with big corporations.

JustSoul
Wrong. You can . My father is working in a small Russian firm which easily competes on the world market. In some areas it&#39;s impossible to "beat" corporations , but there are lots of areas where corporations are not cost-effective.

Corporation ONLY have that edge with distribution and cheap transportation exploiting centralization. If we refuse to allow compromises to our environment and corporations cannot transport then the dumbing down of peoples as they loose their skills, will not happen.

[SgtPepper369]

Advice: Don&#39;t give homeless people money... offer them food.

I&#39;ve worked in groups that try to aid the homless in new york city by providing food, clothing, and toiletries. And it&#39;s tough looking at these people. Some have been downright unlucky, some wasted away on drugs, and some are mentaly ill. You can&#39;t just tell someone like that to "Get a Job". Cause who&#39;s gonna hire them ? They&#39;re dirty, they are "festered with disease", they smell, and they aren&#39;t exactly in the best appearance. There are so few jobs but so many people, not enough jobs to go around.

[Christopher]

Originally posted by [email protected] 5 2004, 09:13 AM
Advice: Don&#39;t give homeless people money... offer them food.

Some have been downright unlucky, some wasted away on drugs, and some are mentaly ill.
Yes, offer them food. Better yet, treat their mental illness because many walk in a cloud of torment.

Psychology could easily realize effective treatments but are forbidden by a religion controlled state to recognize that unconscious disorders, treatable with hypnosis, are the source of much of this problem as well as many criminal behaviors.

For us, if psychology would acknowledge the truth and work with it, control of secret societies would be exposed, our world would improve vastly,