Bosses and Competition

[Jesus Saves Gretzky Scores]

I need arguments against the claims that:
Competition makes prices lower, gives employees better pay, etc.

and

Employers worked hard to get where they are, so they deserve to be in control of the workplace (I'm not really sure how to phrase that, hopefully you understand what I mean.)

Thanks!

[Art Vandelay]

Competition is largely becoming obsolete, although not entirely. When you look across the global market in this day and age you see virtual monopolies in every major sector. This is exactly what Marx predicted, ie: that through the process of capital accumulation, wealth ends up being concentrated in fewer and fewer hands (thus further and further pushing the petite-bourgeoisie out of business and thus creating more and more proletarians [that old bit about capitalism creating its grave diggers]). Far from employers wanting to give their employees better pay, the two have opposing irreconcilable interests; the employees will always want their wages higher, while the employers always want to drive wages down to increase profit.

As for the second part of your question, the only reason that they have 'control' over the workplace, is because they've accumulated capital which they then reinvest. When it comes to the issues of capital vs. labor, I always like to fall back on some old Abe Lincoln (since most capitalist themselves respect the man):


Labor is prior to, and independent of, capital. Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if labor had not first existed. Labor is the superior of capital, and deserves much the higher consideration.

This is the best I could come up with off the top of my head, however my answer is in no doubt inadequate. I'm sure someone far better read in economics will come in and provide a much more succinct and articulate answer.

[Decolonize The Left]

I need arguments against the claims that:
Competition makes prices lower, gives employees better pay, etc.

Competition does not necessarily make prices lower - it only does if it is supply competition and in an isolated open market. For example, two people competing to bid on the same item will drive the price up, not down. As to the market conditions, in a monopolized market competition will not necessarily drive prices lower but will drive smaller producers out of the market, thereby consolidating capital.

As to pay, that argument is laughable. Competition, if anything, drives employee pay down as there is cheaper labor available. If there were only 2 employees, then they'd be pay alright. If there were 2 employees but 30 willing to work, wages would go down as the 30 would be willing to accept less for any work at all.


Employers worked hard to get where they are, so they deserve to be in control of the workplace (I'm not really sure how to phrase that, hopefully you understand what I mean.)

Thanks!

This one's easy.

A Mexican immigrant who crossed the border illegally and works in a vineyard picking grapes works harder (and has worked harder) than any employer ever has. So according to the above logic, this person should be in control of the workplace.

[Thirsty Crow]

I need arguments against the claims that:
Competition makes prices lower, gives employees better pay, etc.
Workers also find themselves in competition so this claim of better wages is just crap, especially if you consider the number of the unemployed (anecdote incoming: a friend of mine works in a bar waiting tables, and was threatened to be sacked; the next day as much as 64 people answered the ad for this job; go figure)




Employers worked hard to get where they are, so they deserve to be in control of the workplace (I'm not really sure how to phrase that, hopefully you understand what I mean.)

Thanks!That's an unproven assumption. You just need some examples of a trust fund kids becoming capitalists to make your point. But the underlying problem is that this is hardly relevant - what is relevant is the actual experience of the working class in this society. Destitution and misery just so that some people might be patted on the back for their hard work?

[greenjuice]

Competition makes prices lower, gives employees better pay, etc.
Competition does make prices lower, but does not increace employees wages, it does the opposite. Being that the capitalist is "homo economicus", when the earnings of his firm are decreased due to having to put lower prices because of the competition, he is centainly not going to decrease the profit he takes, but will decrease the wages of his workers.


Employers worked hard to get where they are, so they deserve to be in control of the workplace
Thiefs work hard too, but doesn't mean they deserve what they steal. Capitalist control over the workers can be attacked from two points- people controling other people is wrong in itself; and one's actions (which obviously includes labor) are inalienable (non-transferable) which makes renting oneself (selling labor-hours) wrong.

[Philosophos]

ok first of all workers don't get paid well enough. No fucking matter what. If the factory gets 500$ profit and it has to distribute to the workers 200$ he will give them 100$.
The same goes if the factory has a profit of 50$. If the workers must get 20$ they will get 10$ because that's how things work in capitalism.

If each worker gets well paid let's say 2000$ (yeah we had this kind of payment in Greece back in the "good days") they get screwed once again because that means that they should have been paid even more. The employers always take advantage of the workers.

About the second thing you mentioned, there are some people that worked really hard to get where they got but don't forget that the market in general is a ***** and you can't go high if you don't step on others. At the same time there are people that inherited wealth, an industry, a factory etc. How did they work hard to get them? It was a freaking genetical accident that's all.

Hope I've helped

[B5C]

Competition doesn't drive wages higher, but lower. We are in a employer market. There is no chance in hell you can sell your skill at the good wage. It's either take the small offer or continue onto the unemployment line.

I once interviewed for an assistant manager job for a seasonal store. Put on my application $11.50 an hour. I told him about my degree, 10 years of experince, ran my own store, and etc. The manager just laughted and said 9.15 an hour. Take it or leave it. I was unemployed for 6 months. I needed a job to live, so I just took it. Then 30 days later I got fired because I disagreed on his treatment of other workers.

Capitalism requires a poor class to exploit. If everyone was middle class or rich there will be no one to exploit and the system collapse on it self.

[Jesus Saves Gretzky Scores]

Thanks everyone!