Broad Tendency Poll 2013

[Sentinel]

Please read before voting:

There has been some speculation whether the amount of anarchists might have decreased on this board lately. This is an attempt to find out the current demographics.

As the title implies, this poll is meant to define the tendency of users in an as broad a sense as possible and trying to avoiding narrow or overlapping labels. But if someone identifies both a platformist and another kind of anarchist for example, choose the most important one for you I guess.

Please by all means post and specify your beliefs but choose the option closest to your views in the poll.

Some explanations as to what the labels mean in the context of this poll.

Maoist: Any type of maoist, except MTW I guess as those are restricted.
Marxist-Leninist: Pro-USSR either under or after the Stalin era, but not a maoist.
Non-Stalinist (leninist) marxist: Trotskyists and other marxists supportive of the October revolution and the USSR until Stalins rise to power
Non-Leninist marxist: Marxists critical of either the Russian Revolution itself or how it developed under Lenin and the Bolsheviks. Left communists, council communists, various libertarian marxists

[Landsharks eat metal]

Put other anarchist because I'm currently undecided. Used to think I was anarcho-syndicalist, but now I'm not quite sure what type of anarchist I am (or if I even feel the need to have another word besides anarchist)

[Goblin]

Non-stalinist marxist.

[human strike]

I'm a singularity. Deal with it.

[l'Enfermé]

Non-Stalinist Marxist. My theoretical, political and philosophical opinions are based, most importantly, on those of Marx and Engels, and then Lenin, Plekhanov, Kautsky, etc., etc..

[Art Vandelay]

Non-Stalinist Marxist. My theoretical, political and philosophical opinions are based, most importantly, on those of Marx and Engels, and then Lenin, Plekhanov, Kautsky, etc., etc..

Same for myself, except I feel the need to include Trotsky in the list; I know you're a recovering trot as well ;).

[Vladimir Innit Lenin]

I am a Marxist.

[Let's Get Free]

im an Engelist

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

I am sympathetic to various anarchist ideas - syndicalists and platformists with their emphasis on workplace and community organisation respectively, and the insurrectionists' uncompromising refusal to negotiate or treat with class enemies.

I'd definitely say that my understanding of anarchism is Marxian in nature, with an emphasis on class struggle. Otherwise I'm not sure.

[Ostrinski]

Eclectic crypto-Trot with the occasional ultra-left sympathy that enjoys viewing Maoist art. A walking idiosyncrasy and a dashing one at that.

Voted Non-stalinist (leninist) marxist

[Danielle Ni Dhighe]

For this poll, a non-Leninist Marxist.

[Domela Nieuwenhuis]

Why have both Anarcho-syndicalists AND Platform Anarchists, but no Anarcho-communists?

[PC LOAD LETTER]

Eclectic crypto-Trot with the occasional ultra-left sympathy that enjoys viewing Maoist art. A walking idiosyncrasy and a dashing one at that.

Voted Non-stalinist (leninist) marxist
Can Crypto-Trot be an option for this poll?

I voted non-stalinist marxist. I consider myself a left-com but heavily sympathize with orthodox marxists

[Ostrinski]

Why have both Anarcho-syndicalists AND Platform Anarchists, but no Anarcho-communists?A-s's and platformists are communists.

[Revoltorb]

Pretty much what l'Enfermé wrote but I also have some left com influences creeping in and even some Situationist influence. Mostly influenced from the revolutionary center, though.

[Le Socialiste]

I'm surprised at the results so far! I voted Non-Stalinist (leninist) Marxist myself. I think Marx and Engels laid the foundation, while figures like Lenin, Trotsky and others within that revolutionary tradition expanded upon and developed it further.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

Haven't voted yet, because I'm unsure of the questions I need to answer in order to determine which of the given categories fits me best.

Help?

[Domela Nieuwenhuis]

A-s's and platformists are communists.

Okay, but why A-S and Platformists. Aren't they the same?

[Bronco]

Clicked "other Anarchist", I would probably identify as an Anarcho-communist but tend not to bother with adjectives

[Sasha]

went for insurectionary anarchist as that most close to my post-left/tiqqun/autonomist/communization/insurectionary/situationist/fucktheoryandlabelsletsgetdrunkandfuckshitup hybrid that these options allow for.

[Jesus Saves Gretzky Scores]

Non-Leninist Marxist, only because I don't know much about Lenins theories.

[svenne]

Non-leninist marxist. It's not that i have that much against Lenin (he's a pretty cool guy and i do recommend reading him), but the leninists of today are mostly awful. I'f i had to be more specific, i guess i should call myself autonomist or (anarcho-)syndicalist - the first one being the politicial tradition i've taught myself marxism through, and the second one being where i've been organized in practice.

[Q]

I voted "Non-Leninist Marxist" since I took "Leninism" in its post-1924 sense.

Should have read the OP first. Non-Stalinist Marxist would have fitted better.

[Sentinel]

I voted "Non-Leninist Marxist" since I took "Leninism" in its post-1924 sense.

Should have read the OP first. Non-Stalinist Marxist would have fitted better.

I'll change your vote ;)

[Tifosi]

anarchist communism

[Comrade Samuel]

Marxist-Leninist

I'm surprised to see that under the definition of M-L it says pro-USSR post Stalin, I figured that would be restrictable.

[Ostrinski]

Looks like this is the era of Trotskyists and Left Communists.

:w00t:

[Ostrinski]

Marxist-Leninist

I'm surprised to see that under the definition of M-L it says pro-USSR post Stalin, I figured that would be restrictable.Why would it be restrictable? Pro Stalin positions aren't restrictable, no reason to have pro post-Stalin positions restrictable.

Besides, that pretty much describes all of the ortho-Trots and Brezhnevites and such.

[Comrade Samuel]

Why would it be restrictable? Pro Stalin positions aren't restrictable, no reason to have pro post-Stalin positions restrictable.

Besides, that pretty much describes all of the ortho-Trots and Brezhnevites and such.

Sure, I just thought it blurs the line between what is capitalist and what is not. Some here argue that Stalin's USSR was "state capitalist" (among about a hundred other things) but I was under the impression pretty much everybody hated Kruschev and those who followed.

[Ostrinski]

Sure, I just thought it blurs the line between what is capitalist and what is not. Some here argue that Stalin's USSR was "state capitalist" (among about a hundred other things) but I was under the impression pretty much everybody hated Kruschev and those who followed.Well it's not a matter of liking Kruschev or not I don't think, most Trotskyists will tell you that supporting the USSR doesn't necessarily amount to supporting its leaders or ruling caste, and then you've got the PSL/WWP types that take the "mistakes were made.." line to Stalin and post-Stalin but consider it socialist all the way through. In fact I'd say those types outnumber the anti-revisionist types, anyway.

[Manic Impressive]

Looks like this is the era of Trotskyists and Left Communists.

:w00t:
How do you work that out? There's only 14 non stalinist Leninists that includes both Trotskyists and Left communists. Bordiga and Pannekoek were both Leninists.

[Art Vandelay]

How do you work that out? There's only 14 non stalinist Leninists that includes both Trotskyists and Left communists. Bordiga and Pannekoek were both Leninists.

I think alot of left-coms would considered themselves non-lenninist Marxists, while still taking influence from Lenin.

[RedAtheist]

I voted non-Leninist Marxist because I don't support one-party dictatorships or the suppression of anyone who is not using violence in an attempt to bring down a socialist state and who is not a former capitalist. I believe that a socialist state should do what is necessary to advance the interests of the proletariat rather than its own interests.

However, I don't belong to any of the groups listed in the non-Leninist Marxist category. I think libertarianism as a philosophy goes against the principles of Marxist, so I especially don't want to be identified with that viewpoint.

[Sentinel]

I'm surprised to see that under the definition of M-L it says pro-USSR post Stalin


To clarify, I added that part to include anyone calling themselves 'M-L' whether they are 'revisionist' or 'anti-revisionist'. Those who support(ed) the USSR against capitalism, as a degenerated workers state should vote for the Non-Stalinist Leninist option..

It's meant to be a broad tendency poll, which is why I didn't make a difference between different ML:s, just as I didn't between different kinds of Trotskyists either but lumped us all in the non-stalinist category.

To those opposed to Stalinism, or Trotskyism, the different tendencies within tendencies constitute the same thing.



How do you work that out? There's only 14 non stalinist Leninists that includes both Trotskyists and Left communists. Both Bordiga and Pannekoek were both Leninists.


I guess left communists can vote for either option 3 or 4, depending on what they think of Lenin, but I think Ostrinski meant that these two options are leading in the poll.

[Trap Queen Voxxy]

Viva la Insurrección!

It doesn't matter who we are, what matters is our plan.

[Let's Get Free]

I voted platformist anarchist. I think Platformism in the sphere of political organizing is a more constructive way to carry out revolutionary struggle than both the vanguardism of Leninists and anti-organizationism of some insurrectionists and autonomists.

[Ostrinski]

How do you work that out? There's only 14 non stalinist Leninists that includes both Trotskyists and Left communists. Bordiga and Pannekoek were both Leninists.I don't think most left communists consider themselves Leninists, except for the Bordigists and the Battaglia Comunista. In general they consider the dominant forms of Leninism (Marxism-Leninism and Trotskyism) to be treacheries to Lenin's legacy, or something like that.

Where are you getting Pannekoek being a Leninist from :confused:? He became a council communist and viewed the Russian Revolution as a bourgeois revolution and the Bolsheviks as a bourgeois revolutionary force in kind.

[khad]

Maoist: Any type of maoist, except MTW I guess as those are restricted.
Marxist-Leninist: Pro-USSR either under or after the Stalin era, but not a maoist.
Non-Stalinist (leninist) marxist: Trotskyists and other marxists supportive of the October revolution and the USSR until Stalins rise to power
Non-Leninist marxist: Marxists critical of either the Russian Revolution itself or how it developed under Lenin and the Bolsheviks. Left communists, council communists, various libertarian marxists
It really is a shame that the entire scope of the left has come to be defined by historical roleplay. This isn't an attack on Sentinel but an observation on the state of affairs.

[MarxSchmarx]

I am sympathetic to various anarchist ideas - syndicalists and platformists with their emphasis on workplace and community organisation respectively, and the insurrectionists' uncompromising refusal to negotiate or treat with class enemies.

I'd definitely say that my understanding of anarchism is Marxian in nature, with an emphasis on class struggle. Otherwise I'm not sure.
If I had to guess that would be one of those anarchist-without-labels, and given that this or that kind of anarchism has historically tended to seek to preclude the other strands (if for no other reason that they often seem to treat the way forward as to some degree a zero-sum game), I'd say this makes you an "other anarchist" unless you identify with one tradition more than another. There's always the "other" option.


Non-leninist marxist. It's not that i have that much against Lenin (he's a pretty cool guy and i do recommend reading him), but the leninists of today are mostly awful. I'f i had to be more specific, i guess i should call myself autonomist or (anarcho-)syndicalist - the first one being the politicial tradition i've taught myself marxism through, and the second one being where i've been organized in practice.
I hear you, although I think there are a lot of people since probably the 1960s and even more so now that historical archives have opened, particularly in the west, who feel Lenin in power turned out to be rather unlike Lenin the exiled writer. That's hardly surprising because Lenin wasn't an absolute monarch and had to contend with the realities of a militarily powerful reaction, but it also suggests the pragmatic limits of a lot of his lofty writings.

[Blake's Baby]

I don't think most left communists consider themselves Leninists, except for the Bordigists and the Battaglia Comunista. In general they consider the dominant forms of Leninism (Marxism-Leninism and Trotskyism) to be treacheries to Lenin's legacy, or something like that.

Where are you getting Pannekoek being a Leninist from :confused:? He became a council communist and viewed the Russian Revolution as a bourgeois revolution and the Bolsheviks as a bourgeois revolutionary force in kind.

I'm pretty sure Battaglia aren't 'Leninists' - only the Bordigists in the Left Communist camp generally consider themselves 'Leninists'.

All the Left Comm factions (Russian, obviously, German, Dutch, Italian, British, Bulgarian...) in general supported the Bolsheviks but felt free to criticise their mistakes. Much of the Dutch/German Left came to theorise from 1920-40 that their earlier positions were wrong (ie, they stopped being 'Left Communists' and became 'Council Communists'). Pannekoek was a Social Democrat (of the Marxist wing) before the war; then a Left Communist; then he changed his views, and became a Council Communist.

The SPGB's view, which Ratty is reflecting, is that all communists who follow the 'insurrectionary' model are 'Leninists' - so he calls Left Comms 'Leninist', even though I, and I suspect most Left Comms who have taken the poll, voted 'non-Leninist Marxist' (I'm sure Ratty himself voted for the same option), because that's what I am - a Marxist, who rejects 'Leninism' (substitution of 'The Party' for workers' councils, right of nations to self-determination etc).

But for the SPGB, 'Leninism' is defined differently - we're 'Leninist' because we don't work through elections (paradoxically, Lenin condemned the Left Communists for rejecting parliament, so he and the SPGB were on the same page there, after the SPGB had criticised Lenin for calling the Constituent Assembly, so the SPGB at that point agreed with the Left Comms...), which leads to statements from SPGBers to the effect that 'we support your Marxism but condemn your Leninism' (at an ICC forum a few months ago where some SPGBers - indeed, including Ratty I think - were present).

But the point remains - I doubt the majority of Left Comms voted 'Leninist', I'd have thought we'd have voted 'non-Leninist Marxist'. I suspect 'non-Stalinist Leninist' = Trotskyist to most voters, just not in the mappa mundi of the SPGB.

[Thirsty Crow]

I voted non-stalinist marxist. I consider myself a left-com but heavily sympathize with orthodox marxists
That's really curious since contemporary OMs completely reject the lessons drawn from the degeneration of the SI by the historical left communist currents.

I voted wrongly. Meant to hit non-Leninist Marxist, but somehow managed to hit "other". Oh well.

[Manic Impressive]

I don't think most left communists consider themselves Leninists, except for the Bordigists and the Battaglia Comunista. In general they consider the dominant forms of Leninism (Marxism-Leninism and Trotskyism) to be treacheries to Lenin's legacy, or something like that.

Where are you getting Pannekoek being a Leninist from :confused:? He became a council communist and viewed the Russian Revolution as a bourgeois revolution and the Bolsheviks as a bourgeois revolutionary force in kind.
Council communism, lets Russify that a bit, Soviet Communism, Pannekoek's writings are based on the perceived success of the early Russian revolution. His raison d'etre for council communism is all power to the soviets. Bordiga on the other hand took the opposite view and recognized that the early soviets retained a mercantilist nature. Bordiga took the all power to the party aspects of Leninism. Endorsing the party structure and the notion that a majority of the working class cannot achieve class consciousness. Bordiga's view was that the party would become the social brain of the class, while I guess the rest of us are the limbs that do all the work while obediently following the orders of the brain without complaint. This is taking Leninism to another level and why the charge of 'ultra Leninism' carries some weight.

This is where both theories, tendencies, whatever you want to call them originated from both inspired by the Bolsheviks and the Russian revolution.

Contrary to Blake's assessment this has nothing to do with parliamentary democracy or the SPGB. However, since he brought it up to to throw us into the comparison unlike Pannekoek and Bordiga we took none of our politics from the Russian revolution and if you were to look for influences outside of Marx & Engels for us it would be Lafargue, Guesde, William Morris, Edward Aveling and Elanor Marx. Basically the far left of the SDF and the impossiblists in France.

[Manic Impressive]

I voted wrongly. Meant to hit non-Leninist Marxist, but somehow managed to hit "other". Oh well.
I did exactly the same lol :blushing:

[Thirsty Crow]

Council communism, lets Russify that a bit, Soviet Communism, Pannekoek's writings are based on the perceived success of the early Russian revolution.
To clear this potential terminological problem a bit, what is commonly referred to as council communism is actually not the German and Dutch Raettekommunismus (damn umlaut) embodied in the KAPD, but the anti-party developmkent of the positions from at least the formation of GIK onwards. For council communism - or councilism as some prefer to call it - the Russian revolution represents a bourgeois revolution, which is clearly incompatible with what you state here.

[Manic Impressive]

To clear this potential terminological problem
To be clear I'm only talking about Pannekoek and have used council communism to refer to his theories as others have already done the same. Pannekoek believed the failure of the Russian revolution was due to the Bolsheviks taking power away from the soviets.

[Thirsty Crow]

To be clear I'm only talking about Pannekoek and have used council communism to refer to his theories as others have already done the same. Pannekoek believed the failure of the Russian revolution was due to the Bolsheviks taking power away from the soviets.
I think there were two Pannekoek's, figuratively speaking. One of World Revolution and Communist Tactics and one of Workers' Councils. In other words, by tracing his own theoretical and political development (one would say, degeneration, but that would be unnecessarily harsh imo), you could also trace the development of councilism, and acknowledge the definite difference between the two "phases".

[Luís Henrique]

Other. Again...

I'm a Marxist, and I am not a Leninist. I don't think this makes me a "non-Leninist Marxist" though, as if Lenin was an overarching criterion of classification.

What is wrong with having a "Marxist" option?

Luís Henrique

[Thirsty Crow]

Other. Again...

I'm a Marxist, and I am not a Leninist. I don't think this makes me a "non-Leninist Marxist" though, as if Lenin was an overarching criterion of classification.

What is wrong with having a "Marxist" option?

Luís Henrique
It could be argued that it is too vague and non-determined given the historical development of the tendencies.

If you're a Marxist but not a Leninist, why do you think that the "non-Leninist Marxist" does not apply? Surely you don't need to follow OP's descriptions to the letter, and you could explain what you mean exactly.

[TheRedAnarchist23]

I portest! There isn't the option Anarchist-Communist in there!

What to pick... I'm not a marxist, so the first 4 are out. I'm not a platformist so that is out. Anarchist Syndicalism is platformist, so that is out. Insurectionary anarchist?
Insurectionary anarchist seems legit.

[Thirsty Crow]

Authoritarianism! A devious totalitarian plot!

[Trap Queen Voxxy]

why the fuck is juche not in the poll!?!?

[Domela Nieuwenhuis]

I portest! There isn't the option Anarchist-Communist in there!

What to pick... I'm not a marxist, so the first 4 are out. I'm not a platformist so that is out. Anarchist Syndicalism is platformist, so that is out. Insurectionary anarchist?
Insurectionary anarchist seems legit.

That's why i voted "other anarchist"...

I actually thought to make a anarchist-tendency poll. Then i thought to myself, why yet another incomplete poll...

[Sentinel]

What is wrong with having a "Marxist" option?



It would have ruined the poll. Anyone between maoists and left communist could have voted for that. I too identify as a marxist first and foremost, but you and I have quite different politics. The point is to see what different kinds of marxists we have here, in a broad sense.

As you aren't a leninist but a yet marxist, non-leninist marxist would have been the most appropriate option for you in this poll - perhaps with an added expanation as Menocchio is saying. But yeah Non-leninist in this poll means 'not a leninist', nothing else.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

"Crowned heads, wealth and privilege may well tremble should ever again the Black and Red unite!" - Otto von Bismarck

If there was a "Marxian anarchist" option I would have gone for that, since I'm fairly sure that not all anarchists are Marxian even if they recognise class struggle.

But for the purposes of this poll, and thanks to MarxSchmarx's post, I guess that "other anarchist" would the best fit.

[Sentinel]

I voted wrongly. Meant to hit non-Leninist Marxist, but somehow managed to hit "other". Oh well.


I did exactly the same lol :blushing:

Changed Menocchio's and Ratty Monster's votes from other to non-Leninist Marxist.

If I've missed someone else who wants to change their vote, please say so.

[Sentinel]

Interesting results so far. 74 have voted so far, out of which 47 have chosen one of the Marxist categories and 24 one of the Anarchist ones. 3 have voted for 'other'.

Of the Marxists, a clear majority (37-10) is non-ML. The 'Non-Stalinist' and 'Non-Leninist' Marxist categories are leading the poll, both with almost 20 votes.

'Insurrectionary anarchist' is leading of the specific anarchist tendencies listed in the poll (with 7 votes), but most (11) don't want to identify with any of them and choose 'other anarchist' instead.

Please continue voting! :)

[Luís Henrique]

If you're a Marxist but not a Leninist, why do you think that the "non-Leninist Marxist" does not apply? Surely you don't need to follow OP's descriptions to the letter, and you could explain what you mean exactly.

Well, I am a Marxist but not a Kautskyan, does this make me a non-Kautskyan Marxist? Or does the fact that I am not a Pannekoekist make me a non-Pannekoekist Marxist?

Why would Lenin and Leninism be the point, anymore than Gramsci or Mao or Kollontai?

Luís Henrique

[Hit The North]

Why would Lenin and Leninism be the point, anymore than Gramsci or Mao or Kollontai?

Luís Henrique

Because Lenin's name and works is used to invoke particular currents and organisations within the Marxist tradition in a way that Gramsci and Kollonai do not?

[Blake's Baby]

That's it exactly. Various groups of 'Marxists' claim to be Leninist in some form - Trotskyists, Stalinists, Maoists. Other groups do not - Left communists, Council Communists, Impossiblists (whether De Leonist or SPGB-style 'marxian socialists'). So a speration between 'Leninist' and 'non-Leninist' Marxists makes sense. And Mao is included, 'Maoist' is included as a tendency. 'Non-Maoist' would make no sense as a tendency however, as it would cover every socialist movement that emerged from 1847-1950 (or thereabouts), as well as any that emerged since that didn't reference Maoism.

Individuals may be more or less inspired by Gramsci or Kollontai, but they didn't found large movements.

[Raúl Duke]

I seldom bother thinking what label to identify myself in.

I'm an anarcho-communist with Marxian influences, among other things I guess...

I guess I don't go around screaming "I'm anarchist" since IRL the few 'anarchists' I've met have usually been disappointing (so much non-sense seems to have come under the banner of "anarchism" in the US, at least this is the impression I got).

I guess I share similar opinions like Bookchin who was affected so much by this he made up an entirely new label (communalism, which from what I gathered is basically the same as anarcho-communism, at least in end-goal, just without the "anarchist" word in the label) to differentiate himself away from the US anarchist milleu.

[Yuppie Grinder]

Given the large number of Left Communists on revleft, it's a bit silly that we don't have our own poll option. I know "non-leninist marxist" is there, but that could be all sorts of things, from anarchists to impossiblists. Also, this is a meaningless pissing contest.

[Yuppie Grinder]

How do you work that out? There's only 14 non stalinist Leninists that includes both Trotskyists and Left communists. Bordiga and Pannekoek were both Leninists.

Bordiga's vanguardism is substantially different from Lenin's, even if he makes claims to be a part of Lenin's legacy. Bordiga is essentially anti-substitutionist.
Pannekoek and Gorter could not be called Leninists. They saw themselves as part of the same genuinely revolutionary movement as Lenin and Trotsky at one time, and after their divorce from comintern came to see them as bourgeois.

[Blake's Baby]

But the point is that the SPGB define all those who want an insurrection/soviets as 'Leninist'. Ergo, to the SPGB, we must all pick the 'Leninist' option (even though like them we picked the 'non-Leninist' option) which makes them think that all the people who picked the 'non-Leninist' option are Impossiblists rather than just 'ultra-Lefts', though in my estimation, more than 50% of those picking 'non-Leninist Marxist' are likely to be Left Comms.

[Art Vandelay]

But the point is that the SPGB define all those who want an insurrection/soviets as 'Leninist'. Ergo, to the SPGB, we must all pick the 'Leninist' option (even though like them we picked the 'non-Leninist' option) which makes them think that all the people who picked the 'non-Leninist' option are Impossiblists rather than just 'ultra-Lefts', though in my estimation, more than 50% of those picking 'non-Leninist Marxist' are likely to be Left Comms.

Speak for yourself when you say that 'we like them.'

[Blake's Baby]

Speak for yourself when you say that 'we like them.'

I am, I'm a Left Comm, responding to GourmetPez, another Left Comm, who said "Given the large number of Left Communists on revleft, it's a bit silly that we don't have our own poll option. I know "non-leninist marxist" is there, but that could be all sorts of things, from anarchists to impossiblists..." - so a Left Comm responding to another Left Comm about Left Comms. I think the use of 'we' is justified in that instance, and I'm not sure what possible objection you can have against it.

[F9]

oh god...where this site is heading to?ffs!!!good old days are of the past now.damn authoritarians took the lead and we are screwed!!!

also really no anarchocommunist option on the poll sentinel?:)

[Sentinel]

oh god...where this site is heading to?ffs!!!good old days are of the past now.damn authoritarians took the lead and we are screwed!!!

:grin:


also really no anarchocommunist option on the poll sentinel?:)

I left it out for the same reason as 'marxist' - it's too inclusive. But if you don't feel that 'insurrectionary' or 'syndicalist' cover your views, vote 'other anarchist'.

[Yet_Another_Boring_Marxist]

Given the large number of Left Communists on revleft, it's a bit silly that we don't have our own poll option. I know "non-leninist marxist" is there, but that could be all sorts of things, from anarchists to impossiblists. Also, this is a meaningless pissing contest.

Borgida's position essentially substitutes the actual working class with the "advanced section". Which in the modern era means at best labor aristocracy (and considering the class composition of historical left communist parties post-50's, "at best" means absolutely never), and at worse college kids who have discovered the infallible genius of glorious Borgida Thought. All while rejecting struggles that do not fit into your ideological framework as "reformist" or "the left wing of capital".Your tendency is the most subsitutionist position that exists.

[Blake's Baby]

Borgida's position essentially substitutes the actual working class with the "advanced section". Which in the modern era means at best labor aristocracy (and considering the class composition of historical left communist parties post-50's, "at best" means absolutely never), and at worse college kids who have discovered the infallible genius of glorious Borgida Thought. All while rejecting struggles that do not fit into your ideological framework as "reformist" or "the left wing of capital".Your tendency is the most subsitutionist position that exists.

You know what? Most Left Comms aren't Bordigists.

[Devrim]

Borgida's position essentially substitutes the actual working class with the "advanced section". Which in the modern era means at best labor aristocracy (and considering the class composition of historical left communist parties post-50's, "at best" means absolutely never), and at worse college kids who have discovered the infallible genius of glorious Borgida Thought. All while rejecting struggles that do not fit into your ideological framework as "reformist" or "the left wing of capital".Your tendency is the most subsitutionist position that exists.

You have clearly never met a Bordigist and have no idea what you are talking about at all. If there is any group, which is less comprised of 'college kids' it would be the Bordigists. The younger Bordigists that I have met are middle-aged.

If that is the impression you have of Bordigism, I really doubt that you have much idea at all about the "class composition of historical left communist parties post-50's".

Devrim

[Zukunftsmusik]

Non-Leninist Marxist, only because I don't know much about Lenins theories.

voted the same, for the same reasons

[Workers-Control-Over-Prod]

Voted Marxist-Leninist. Practical experience at revolution in an underdeveloped country can not be compared to the ideal, hence my support for the "Proletarian revolution" USSR until it was completely dismantled of any revolution-ism in 1956.

[Kindness]

I voted non-Leninist Marxist, but I reject orthodox Marxian class analysis (I'm more on board with neo-Marxist analyses such as that of Frank Olin Wright). I also have some sympathies for non-Marxist socialism (such as the utopian socialism of Proudhon, etc.) and anarcho-pacifism (based heavily on Tolstoy's thought). I don't fit under any label, but if forced to choose one, I'd identify as a pacifist communist.

Is that confusing enough ;)?

[Geiseric]

oh god...where this site is heading to?ffs!!!good old days are of the past now.damn authoritarians took the lead and we are screwed!!!

also really no anarchocommunist option on the poll sentinel?:)

Authoritarians like Makhno and Durruti?

[Geiseric]

Voted Marxist-Leninist. Practical experience at revolution in an underdeveloped country can not be compared to the ideal, hence my support for the "Proletarian revolution" USSR until it was completely dismantled of any revolution-ism in 1956.

You're imagining things, nothing inheritly changed in the fSU when Khruschev was in charge, he simply had to numb down the backlash that Stalin, and the rest of the assholes who were in charge, had coming to the state.

[Quail]

Voted "other anarchist" in the poll. If I describe my politics I often call myself either an anarchist-communist or a libertarian communist.

[Sentinel]

Authoritarians like Makhno and Durruti?

I think he is referring to the fact that anarchists seem to only constitute around 35% of the voters in the poll. When I joined here it must have been over 50% - even though people made so crappy polls compared to this superior one that it's hard to say for sure.

Compare to the 'bolsheviks', trots and stalinists who together have almost 40% now (not that we have that much in common of course but for the anarchists we are same shit, right), and together with other marxists almost 65%.

[Blake's Baby]

But the anarchists + non-Leninist Marxists (ie, broadly what Anarchists regard as 'libertarian Marxists') outnumber the Trotskyists + the Stalinists. There are currently 41 Maoists/Stalinists/Trotskyists, and 60 Anarchists and non-Leninist Marxists. Of all of those, the largest single group is 'non-Leninist Marxists' - the Left Comms, Impossiblists, and I guess the neo-Kautskyite group. The second-largest group is Trotskyists, I guess, as that's how I'd interpret 'non-Stalinist Leninists', though I suppose some Maoists might think of themselves as non-Stalinist Leninists.

[PC LOAD LETTER]

But the anarchists + non-Leninist Marxists (ie, broadly what Anarchists regard as 'libertarian Marxists') outnumber the Trotskyists + the Stalinists. There are currently 41 Maoists/Stalinists/Trotskyists, and 60 Anarchists and non-Leninist Marxists. Of all of those, the largest single group is 'non-Leninist Marxists' - the Left Comms, Impossiblists, and I guess the neo-Kautskyite group. The second-largest group is Trotskyists, I guess, as that's how I'd interpret 'non-Stalinist Leninists', though I suppose some Maoists might think of themselves as non-Stalinist Leninists.
Yeah, I should have voted "non-leninist marxism" instead of 'non-stalinist marxism', I thought 'non-leninist marxism' was just referring to impossiblists/councilists/etc.

[Blake's Baby]

Well, I don't think it's a very good poll myself because the categories are well confusing. I suppose it's reasonable for some Left-Comms to come down on the Leninist-not-Stalinist side, but I read that as 'Trotskyist'. I don't think of myself as a Leninst, but I'm pretty sure that the SPGB (for example) would see me as one. But then, they think Pannekoek is a Leninist. So to an SPGBer reading that poll, the only non-Leninist Marxists would likely be themselves, and maybe DeLeonists. But I think it's mostly Left Comms, naturally.

[Anglo-Saxon Philistine]

Boringly standard anti-Shachtmanite Bolshevik-Leninist (Trotskyist). Voted Non-stalinist (leninist) marxist.

[Workers-Control-Over-Prod]

"Crowned heads, wealth and privilege may well tremble should ever again the Black and Red unite!" - Otto von Bismarck

If there was a "Marxian anarchist" option I would have gone for that, since I'm fairly sure that not all anarchists are Marxian even if they recognise class struggle.

But for the purposes of this poll, and thanks to MarxSchmarx's post, I guess that "other anarchist" would the best fit.

"Crowned heads, wealth and privilege may well tremble should ever again the Black and Red unite!" - Otto von Bismarck

Interesting quote. In the 1919 Munich Revolution, in the ensuing Bavarian Soviet Republic, the Anarchists and the Communist Party of Germany allied and gave all power to the councils of Bavaria. Didn't turn out too well though. The Anarchist leaders had no feel for politics, were mostly petty-bourgeois and not proletarian. The USPD-left cadres and KPD had not enough leadership experience, not enough political education, unreliable personalities, not enough cadres to actually set up a new state etc.

[TiberiusGracchus]

I guess I'll have to vote for "Non-stalinist (leninist) marxist", but I'm definitly not a trot, and I'm sympathetic to much maoism and non-leninist marxism as well.

[Anglo-Saxon Philistine]

I guess I'll have to vote for "Non-stalinist (leninist) marxist", but I'm definitly not a trot, and I'm sympathetic to much maoism and non-leninist marxism as well.

So, I am curious, how would you describe yourself politically? I suppose the group around the journal Kommunist and the former Right Opposition would all be non-"Stalinist" Leninists that are not Trotskyists, but I'd thought both groups have no current supporters.

[NoOneIsIllegal]

I voted anarcho-syndicalist, although I fit more in the broad range of anarchism and a slight leaning to early/orthodox Marxism. I'm heavily influenced by anarcho-syndicalism, and class-struggle anarchism in general though so I went with that.

Apparently my Marxist-Leninist friends have referred to me as a Marxist, but "he needs to give Lenin another chance."
:rolleyes: