Supporting Palestinian/Lebanese resistance but not the Syrian rebels

[RisingSun]

So let me get this straight, when the Muslim brotherhood (and their even more religious fundamentalist Shiite counterpart) shoots at Israeli's its called the "resistance" fighting for "justice" but when those same MBs shoot at Assads troops they are "fanatical sectarians who would massacre minority groups. Syria would become another slave state in the Middle East that supported the imperialists"?
Do you take medicine for that massive cognitive dissonance or what?

The sections of the Palestinian resistance that attack Israel are responding in a legitimate and justifiable way. Same with the Lebanese resistance who forced the end of (most of) the Israeli occupation of their country, and who are now fighting to liberate the prisoners still held in Israeli dungeons that were kidnapped during the conflict.

The Syrian rebels, on the other hand, have proven themselves willing to massacre civilians and engage in ethnic cleansing. If they come to power, who will they support internationally? The Libyan so-called rebels who gained power (and who are now persecuting black people in their country) have become willing puppets of the US and UK. If Syria met the same fate then the Middle East situation would be significantly worse than it is now.

There's a reason that the US, UK and Israel all want the Syrian rebels to win this civil war. Are you aware that you're a tool of Western imperialism or are you too ignorant to realise it?


Assad and Iran do not give a monkey's arse for "palestinian justice" they are just an smaller imperialist faction of capital, one that shoots workers instead of paying them off.

The Palestinian people in Gaza have weapons in their hands and food in their stomachs right now because of Iran. Within the last week Iran has delivered thirty six tons of food, medicines, medical equipment, heating equipment and also two ambulances to Palestinian refugees in Syria.

You might say "they don't really care" but their alleged non-caring is a lot more humanitarian and supportive than what you're doing, and you can be sure that it's a lot more supportive than what a USUKIsrael-backed slave Syria and Iran would be doing.

You can't have a Communist Syria, it's not going to happen. So it would be prudent for everybody on the left to support the lesser of two evils - in this case, Assad.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

I'd rather not support any evil full stop, actually. Fuck lesser-evilism.

[Crux]

You can't have a Communist Syria, it's not going to happen. So it would be prudent for everybody on the left to support the lesser of two evils - in this case, Assad.
Spoken like a spineless reformist. I am in no way defending the FSA, quite the opposite, but your line of reasoning about Assad being "the lesser evil" is of course untrue. And that this in turn leads you to reject communism as such shows why you belong here in OI.

[Let's Get Free]

Yeah, I'm sure Syrians will be more than happy to submit to the benevolent dictatorship of the Assad family.


Originally Posted by psycho
So let me get this straight, when the Muslim brotherhood (and their even more religious fundamentalist Shiite counterpart) shoots at Israeli's its called the "resistance" fighting for "justice" but when those same MBs shoot at Assads troops they are "fanatical sectarians who would massacre minority groups. Syria would become another slave state in the Middle East that supported the imperialists"?
Do you take medicine for that massive cognitive dissonance or what?
:lol:

[RisingSun]

Spoken like a spineless reformist. I am in no way defending the FSA, quite the opposite, but your line of reasoning about Assad being "the lesser evil" is of course untrue. And that this in turn leads you to reject communism as such shows why you belong here in OI.

We'll be able to have a sensible conversation about this when you enter the real world.

[#FF0000]

Assad is the lesser of two evils. v:mellow:v

[Crux]

We'll be able to have a sensible conversation about this when you enter the real world.
I think you're confusing "entering the real world" with "abandoning marxism". Don't worry, it's quite common for people like yourself.
But sure, let's have a conversation, assuming what you hope for happens Assad manages to beat back the FSA and regain control of Syria. What do you think will happen next? Well, undoubtedly thousands upon thousands of oppositionists will be jailed and executed. And the risk of civil war flaring up again will always be around the corner. You conveniently forget that Assad has murdered thousands of his own people, during a relatively short period of time. So how do you imagine he will restore his credibility and support after this?

[#FF0000]

that is actually preferable to what would happen if the FSA won. Which is basically the same thing with the added bonus of the fracturing of the country.

[l'Enfermé]

I think you're confusing "entering the real world" with "abandoning marxism". Don't worry, it's quite common for people like yourself.
But sure, let's have a conversation, assuming what you hope for happens Assad manages to beat back the FSA and regain control of Syria. What do you think will happen next? Well, undoubtedly thousands upon thousands of oppositionists will be jailed and executed. And the risk of civil war flaring up again will always be around the corner. You conveniently forget that Assad has murdered thousands of his own people, during a relatively short period of time. So how do you imagine he will restore his credibility and support after this?
There won't be any "oppositionists" to be jailed and executed because all the Jihadists will go back to their own countries, their families must really miss them by now.

[Let's Get Free]

But sure, let's have a conversation, assuming what you hope for happens Assad manages to beat back the FSA and regain control of Syria. What do you think will happen next?

I think if the regime wins, the progressive and democratic forces fighting against the regime will be pulverized, smashed to atoms, and many cities and towns will likely be punished collectively for their insubordination, meanwhile a moribund regime will continue to entrench the dominance of a nepotistic state capitalist bloc.

[Crux]

There won't be any "oppositionists" to be jailed and executed because all the Jihadists will go back to their own countries, their families must really miss them by now.
Ah yes, the conspiracy theorist reasoning. Firstly, I very much believe that the situation as it stands today is that the FSA are dominated by islamists, who are the best organized and best armed part of the opposition. The bourgeoisie democrats largely tail them. However this is worlds apart from the claim that the opposition would be mostly "foreign jihadists", first of all claiming that most of opposition (as opposed to just the FSA) are jihadists is simply not true, secondly that there are foreign jihadists aiding the FSA is obiviously true, that all of the jihadists, or even a majority, would be foreign is extremely contentious.

[Crux]

that is actually preferable to what would happen if the FSA won. Which is basically the same thing with the added bonus of the fracturing of the country.
Here's the kicker though: even if Assad wins it won't be a "total victory".

This summarizes my position fairly well.
(http://www.socialistworld.net/doc/6110)

[Tim Cornelis]

The sections of the Palestinian resistance that attack Israel are responding in a legitimate and justifiable way. Same with the Lebanese resistance who forced the end of (most of) the Israeli occupation of their country, and who are now fighting to liberate the prisoners still held in Israeli dungeons that were kidnapped during the conflict.

The Syrian rebels, on the other hand, have proven themselves willing to massacre civilians and engage in ethnic cleansing. If they come to power, who will they support internationally? The Libyan so-called rebels who gained power (and who are now persecuting black people in their country) have become willing puppets of the US and UK. If Syria met the same fate then the Middle East situation would be significantly worse than it is now.

So the Muslim Brotherhood's offshoot fighting an unjustified oppressive, though liberal, regime is justified; the Muslim Brotherhood's sympathisers fighting an oppressive authoritarian and murderous regime is absolutely unjustified and we need to support that oppressive regime, as well as Shiite Islamists.

Christian opposition groups have nuanced the idea of "ethnic cleansing" as pro-Assad sources claimed, saying pro-Assad Christians were deported, and Christians an sich were not targeted.

[Os Cangaceiros]

Ah yes, the conspiracy theorist reasoning. Firstly, I very much believe that the situation as it stands today is that the FSA are dominated by islamists, who are the best organized and best armed part of the opposition. The bourgeoisie democrats largely tail them. However this is worlds apart from the claim that the opposition would be mostly "foreign jihadists", first of all claiming that most of opposition (as opposed to just the FSA) are jihadists is simply not true, secondly that there are foreign jihadists aiding the FSA is obiviously true, that all of the jihadists, or even a majority, would be foreign is extremely contentious.

Yeah, the whole idea that the Syrian opposition is made up exclusively of foreign jihadists (an idea few people would admit to, but one could easily come to that conclusion by reading this board lol) is ridiculous. Foreign jihadists have participated in many regional wars (like Afghanistan, Bosnia, etc) but they were always a minority compared to the local opposition.

Like I've said before, both the stereotypes of (in the American media) "the tyrant Assad killing his own people" and (in the Revleft media, lol) "the Assad regime holding the line against Salafist terrorists"...man, they're so dumb. Soooooooo dumb.

Hafiz seemed like a lot more of a tyrant than Bashar is. The former was responsible for the slaughter of 1,000 defenseless prisoners in Tadmor military prison (which I guess has been reopened in the wake of the 2011 protests, according to wikipedia). I don't care if the prisoners were Islamists who put bin Laden to shame, that shit is fucked up.

[Sinister Cultural Marxist]

Bashar al Assad might not be as much of a tyrant as his father in terms of slaughtering prisoners, but he sure does seem to like using heavy artillery, tank fire and jet aircraft on targets with questionable military value and a lot of civilians end up as "collateral damage" as a result. Using a tank to terrorize a neighborhood where protesters and guerrillas might be coming from seems as tyrannical as killing prisoners without a trial.

I agree with you about the ridiculous media coverage on one side and the goofy conspiracy theorizing on the other side (which has a striking similarity to Anticommunist conspiracy theories about how every Leftist movement in the world from 1950 to 1990 was not an indigenous movement but was initiated by the Soviet Union, which is a view utterly devoid of mature historical and material analysis). The idea that a bunch of lightly armed Iraqi, Libyan and Egyptian Jihadists could in a sense initiate a civil war without any support from the local populace (but maybe a little from the CIA) is nuts. It's even more nuts when you consider the fact that Syria is itself more than half Sunni and offered up Jihadist fighters to various struggles around the world - there are clearly people within Syria too who are willing to take up arms against the State.

[Rafiq]

I oppose the islamist scum but the assad regime is not "progressive" by any standards. Saleh Jadid was a "progressive" bourgeois-bonapartist and he was booted by Hafiz. The reason? Sending troops to aid palestinian militants against the Jordanian monarchy. Hafiz sought to seek an alliance with states like Jordan and Saudi Arabia. Funny how things came back to bite the bastard (or his son) in the ass.

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[Comrade Nasser]

Say what you wan't about the man, but I will always admire his resolve. I remember him being quoted as saying something along the lines of "I'm not a western puppet, I live and die in Syria." Also his wife is beautiful and they have the most adorable children.

[hatzel]

Also his wife is beautiful and they have the most adorable children.

Yeah sounds relevant...

[Comrade Nasser]

Yeah sounds relevant...

Sometimes we need to lighten up lol.

[Tim Cornelis]

Say what you wan't about the man, but I will always admire his resolve. I remember him being quoted as saying something along the lines of "I'm not a western puppet, I live and die in Syria." Also his wife is beautiful and they have the most adorable children.

I thought these were their children:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-pnGG6cVONGU/T_aba_qVklI/AAAAAAAAt-0/NJWpguapGho/s1600/Assad%2Bfamily%2Bin%2BVogue.jpg

[Comrade Nasser]

I thought these were their children:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-pnGG6cVONGU/T_aba_qVklI/AAAAAAAAt-0/NJWpguapGho/s1600/Assad%2Bfamily%2Bin%2BVogue.jpg

The pic I posted was one from his kids birthday party a couple years back (yours is a newer one)

Nonetheless, still adorable.

[AConfusedSocialDemocrat]

I thought these were their children:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-pnGG6cVONGU/T_aba_qVklI/AAAAAAAAt-0/NJWpguapGho/s1600/Assad%2Bfamily%2Bin%2BVogue.jpg

Just something really creepy and surreal when you see tyrants out of uniform, relaxing with their family, wearing normal clothes, and just generally doing mundane human things

[Rafiq]

Just something really creepy and surreal when you see tyrants out of uniform, relaxing with their family, wearing normal clothes, and just generally doing mundane human things

What uniform? Bashar wears a suit, to represent Syria's adoption of neoliberalism. "Oh, bashar is such a nice man, look at him, he's such a caring father". Sorry but this is the most pathetic defense of Bashar imaginable. Someone post the pics of hitler playing with his dog, or whatever. I'm not jumping on this pro rebel bandwagon, not by any means. But you can't defend entities because their representatives happen to be nice guys personally.

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[AConfusedSocialDemocrat]

What uniform? Bashar wears a suit, to represent Syria's adoption of neoliberalism.

I was refering to strongmen in general, could be be Qaddafi, Putin, or Aliyev, just weird seeing them in jeans and a tshirt.


I'm not jumping on this pro rebel bandwagon, not by any means. But you can't defend entities because their representatives happen to be nice guys personally.

I'm not defending him, just pointing out how creepy it is when you see the more private side of a dictator.

[Os Cangaceiros]

Yeah, tyrants wear suits now. The whole aviator sunglasses/military uniform/riding-in-the-back-of-an-army-jeep is soooooo Cold War.

[Flying Purple People Eater]

The pic I posted was one from his kids birthday party a couple years back (yours is a newer one)

Nonetheless, still adorable.

Ghaddafi had a son who played Prince of Persia.

Hitler enjoyed classical.


I don't care what a fuckers' family looks like.

And saying that a group like Hamas (which shouldn't be supported) or the PFLP are anything at all similar to the monsters getting their children to kill Shia and other minorities all across the Syrian landmass is just fucking stupid as hell.