French troops arrive in Mali to stem rebel advance

[KurtFF8]

Source (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jan/11/france-intervene-mali-conflict)


http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2013/1/11/1357912023493/Islamist-fighters-in-Timb-008.jpg

French troops have arrived in Mali amid a rapid escalation of international efforts to intervene in the country, where Islamist groups are continuing to clash with the army for control of the desert north.

The French president, François Hollande, announced on Friday night that French armed forces had come to the aid of Mali troops on the ground. He said the operation would last as long as necessary and the French parliament would sit to debate the move on Monday.

The French foreign office has advised ex-pats to leave Mali because of the security situation.

French media quoted Malian officials as saying European military were present on the ground, namely at Sévaré.

Colonel Abdrahmane Baby, a military operations adviser for the foreign affairs ministry, told Associated Press that French troops were in the country but gave no details about how many or what they were doing.

The announcement confirmed reports from residents in central Mali who said they had seen western military personnel arrive and that planes had landed there throughout the night.

Earlier, Hollande said France was "ready to stop the terrorists' advance if it continues". In a speech to the country's diplomatic corps, he said: "I have decided that France will respond, alongside our African partners, to the request from the Malian authorities. We will do it strictly within the framework of the United Nations security council resolution.

"[The rebels] have even tried to deal a fatal blow to the very existence of Mali. France, like its African partners and the entire international community, cannot accept that."

The tough-talking announcement by Hollande came after a plea for assistance from Mali's embattled president, Dioncounda Traoré, who has been under growing pressure in Mali to fight back against Islamist control of the north. The UN called for the swift deployment of an international force to Mali.

Al-Qaida-linked groups have controlled north Mali since the army deserted a campaign against Tuareg and Islamist rebels, followed by a military coup last March.

On Thursday rebels captured the town of Konna, less than 40 miles from the strategic city and army base of Mopti. The situation in Konna is described as complicated, with army personnel still in the town but rebels now in control.

"There are Islamists controlling Konna, but they are integrated into the population, it is very difficult for the army to fight them," said Boubakar Hamadoun, editor of the Bamako-based newspaper Mali Demain, who has reporters based in the north. "It is a very complicated situation."

Hamadoun cast doubt on reports that Douentza, one of the southernmost towns under Islamist control, had been recaptured by the Malian army this week. "There are some army personnel in Douentza in strategic positions, but the rebels are still very much in control of the town," he said.

The renewed fighting follows the disintegration of a ceasefire between one of the Islamist groups, Ansar Dine, and the government. It has sparked panic in Mopti and other towns south of the de facto border between government and Islamist control, and prompted concerns in the international community that the Islamist groups – who operate a drug trafficking and kidnap economy in northern Mali and other Sahelian countries – could capture more ground.

Hollande's announcement marked a radical departure from recent agreements that limited the role of French and other international forces to providing Mali's army with training and logistical support.

France, the former colonial power in Mali and other countries in the Sahel region, has hundreds of troops stationed across west and central Africa. This month it declined to provide a military intervention to another former colony, the Central African Republic, whose government is also under threat from rebel groups.

A UN security council resolution has been passed, paving the way for military intervention in Mali, but the UN's special envoy for the Sahel, Romano Prodi, said in November there would be no deployment until September.

The French presence in Africa continues to grow. How can folks look at this as anything but neo-colonialism/neo-white man's burden ideology?

I suppose if you're just trying to "fight the terrorists" then tout va bien?

[cynicles]

From what I understand the only native force able to expel AQIM(Al-Qaeda in the Magrehb) and it's local allies and affliates are the secular Azawadi Nationalists. They've said they would only be willing to go after them if the global community recognized their state of Azawad in northern Mali which the international community refuses to do because of the resources in that area(uranium, natural gas, gold, etc). The sick thing is that the president of Mali was in bed with AQIM all the time and let them run around proliferating.

[l'Enfermé]

"There are Islamists controlling Konna, but they are integrated into the population, it is very difficult for the army to fight them," said Boubakar Hamadoun, editor of the Bamako-based newspaper Mali Demain, who has reporters based in the north. "It is a very complicated situation."

Hahahahahaha. That's a very funny way of saying that the local population is mostly anti-government Islamists.

[Let's Get Free]

The French presence in Africa continues to grow. How can folks look at this as anything but neo-colonialism/neo-white man's burden ideology?

I suppose if you're just trying to "fight the terrorists" then tout va bien?

France still considers a great many African nations to be its colonies.

[l'Enfermé]

Oh, and yeah, I read on a French site that it's not just France. Nigeria and Senegal are also supposedly taking part in this. Or maybe it was Niger; Niger actually borders Mali. But I think the governments of Niger and Mali don't really like each other. I don't know, I'm really bad at African politics. :(

[Pelarys]

Ahh taking back control of our rightful soil, I see. It's good to see that our beautiful nation has not been totally overran by Muslims yet. Vive la France! [/sarcasm]

[Agathor]

Ahh taking back control of our rightful soil, I see. It's good to see that our beautiful nation has not been totally overran by Muslims yet. Vive la France! [/sarcasm]

Woah there, give a warning if you're going to be so edgy.

[Os Cangaceiros]

Who oh who will we support in this battle between religious fundamentalists and French imperialists? We must pick a side! :ohmy:

"Imperialist hands off [insert country here]!"

[the last donut of the night]

Who oh who will we support in this battle between religious fundamentalists and French imperialists? We must pick a side! :ohmy:

"Imperialist hands off [insert country here]!"

in b4 AQIM is touted as anti-imperialist liberating force

[Lord Daedra]

in b4 AQIM is touted as anti-imperialist liberating force

you guys do know that the islamists have been on a handchopping, women stoning and Sufi annihilating killing spree right? I'd take imperiast Frenchie's over that anyday. (the tuareg nationalists fucked up by looting early on, capitulating to Ansar Dine and than getting their ass handed to them. They don't have the resources or support to hold down the north)

[ed miliband]

sometimes people miss the point so widely when responding to posts it actually confuses me.

[Ostrinski]

you guys do know that the islamists have been on a handchopping, women stoning and Sufi annihilating killing spree right? I'd take imperiast Frenchie's over that anyday. (the tuareg nationalists fucked up by looting early on, capitulating to Ansar Dine and than getting their ass handed to them. They don't have the resources or support to hold down the north)He was mocking the anti-imperialist types that wet their pants over every group that takes up the defensive against western military operations.

[Nakidana]

you guys do know that the islamists have been on a handchopping, women stoning and Sufi annihilating killing spree right? I'd take imperiast Frenchie's over that anyday.

So I guess we can add +1 in support of the former colonial master of Mali. :rolleyes:

Seriously though why have France decided to step up their presence?

[Paul Pott]

More imperial intervention, more "leftist" support.

Why not, the "socialist" Hollande will surely liberate women, or something. :rolleyes:

[Paul Pott]

So I guess we can add +1 in support of the former colonial master of Mali. :rolleyes:

Seriously though why have France decided to step up their presence?

To defend their client junta. The islamists have recently become stronger and captured a major town yesterday or the day before.

French neocolonialism is usually overshadowed by American or even Chinese neocolonialism, but it's still a major force of reaction in Western Africa.

Our stance should be to support the military defeat of France and her proxies. Period.

[Paul Pott]

you guys do know that the islamists have been on a handchopping, women stoning and Sufi annihilating killing spree right?

Replace Sufi with Alawite and Christian and you have Syria. But we all know revleft's stance on that.

[KurtFF8]

Who oh who will we support in this battle between religious fundamentalists and French imperialists? We must pick a side! :ohmy:

"Imperialist hands off [insert country here]!"

Actually if we actually examine this conflict, we would discover (as many news papers have been discussing) how this conflict was fueled by NATO intervention in Libya.

This is what I posted at PoFo:
--------

If we are really in a situation of "well which would be 'less bad' for Mali?" then we're already buying into the French narrative that "We have to do something to alleviate the problem!"

This is a very ahistorical take on the contemporary situation to pretend that the history of French colonialism in a place like Mali is just some historical past that bears no weight on this....

Another thing that's being strangely left out of the narrative by folks who want to paint it as "Well the Islamists are terrible so the West has to fight them" with the lesser evils logic is quite significant. As The Guardian (http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/jan/14/mali-france-bombing-intervention-libya), The New York Times (http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/14/world/africa/french-jets-strike-deep-inside-islamist-held-mali.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1&), and The Independent (http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/the-war-in-libya-was-seen-as-a-success-now-here-we-are-engaging-with-the-blowback-in-mali-8449588.html) all point out: a major source of this conflict is the instability created by Western intervention in Libya.

This fact alone makes the point of "well the Islamists are bad so we should support France" an absurd point that requires an erasing of even recent history, let alone ignoring the colonial history.
--------------

So to be silent on the question of French/Western imperialism in this case would be quite a strange position for a Leftist to take in my opinion.

[Geiseric]

you guys do know that the islamists have been on a handchopping, women stoning and Sufi annihilating killing spree right? I'd take imperiast Frenchie's over that anyday. (the tuareg nationalists fucked up by looting early on, capitulating to Ansar Dine and than getting their ass handed to them. They don't have the resources or support to hold down the north)

Great why don't you move to a french colony and see how great it is then.

[Dennis the 'Bloody Peasant']

President Francois Hollande says more French troops are to be deployed in Mali to support the 750 in the country countering an Islamist insurgency.
Mr Hollande, visiting the United Arab Emirates, said new air strikes overnight had "achieved their goal".
West African military chiefs will meet in Mali on Tuesday to discuss how an alliance with the French will work.
France began its intervention on Friday with the aim of halting the Islamists' advance south towards the capital.
Late on Monday, the UN Security Council unanimously backed the intervention.

(BBC News)

[La Guaneña]

I saw yesterday on the news that despite the french, the rebels took another city. Does anyone have good sources?

[Art Vandelay]

Communists don't take sides in inter-capital fights, there really isn't much more to it then that.

[Sinister Cultural Marxist]

There should be no love for French neocolonialism or for al Qaeda and its allies in North Africa. This conflict will hopefully weaken both. It's a shame that there's no domestic Malian force capable of tackling the militants - the Malian military and the Tuareg nationalists were both handily defeated by the highly mobile and well armed Salafist forces

[Comrade #138672]

But should it not be opposed because this is Imperialism?

[Sinister Cultural Marxist]

But should it not be opposed because this is Imperialism?

This is imperialism, but it's not a new case of imperialism. It's merely a continuation of the same Africa policies pursued by European powers for years.

It should be opposed, but it should also be understood that the Islamists themselves are brutal reactionaries who are themselves only in existence due to Imperialism (by weakening political authorities in Africa and allowing the content of Libyan arms depots to flow to various armed groups). This seems more like France trying to clean up earlier strategic errors than an expansion of French Imperialism. I hope the French neocolonial project in Africa fails and I also hope that Mali does not become a haven for violent Salafi warlords who take power by armed putsch.

[Le Socialiste]

Hollande is saying the French offensive will "last as long as necessary." Of course, I don't see a scenario where this conflict doesn't devolve into a protracted war. While it's true that the rebels have been joined by and integrated with more fundamentalist elements, the former have been driven to this point multiple times before (four times since 1960). While I don't know enough about the current conflict, the underlying motivation of it all lies in the economic impoverishment and political marginalization of the Tuareg people. You can also chalk it up to European (and specifically French) imperialism, which divided up entire peoples and cultures without any regard to how this might - and did - affect "post-colonial" societies.

[Lacrimi de Chiciură]

Souleymane Cissé's movie Finyè about the young people (students) rebellion in Mali in the 80s military dictatorship was awesome. That movie really inspired me, deep. You don't get movies like that from Hollywood. I won't pretend to be an expert but it seems the narrative of the rebels being all crazed evil Islamists could be a demonization tactic, just saying, especially since, correct me if I'm wrong, the rebellion started with a Touareg national liberation movement against their social exclusion and economic decline and some people started pushing for Islamism within the chaos of that context. Maybe similar to how the rise of Hamas was a result of secular left-wing Palestinian groups being crushed and now being pro-Palestinian makes you a "pro-terrorist" by default. I am just trying to educate myself a little on the history of Touareg people in colonialism. Something just doesn't sit right with me though to leave it at "fuck 'em both/lesser evilism" and then equate France, a nuclear-weaponized power that colonized probably a third of the planet, home of ~60 million people, and having one of the world's largest militaries, with a culture of ~1.5 million traditionally nomadic people. Just saying.

[Sinister Cultural Marxist]

Souleymane Cissé's Finyè was a movie about the young people (students) rebellion in Mali in the 80s military dictatorship. That movie really inspired me, deep. You don't get movies like that from Hollywood. I won't pretend to be an expert but it seems the narrative of the rebels being all crazed evil Islamists could be a demonization tactic, just saying, especially since, correct me if I'm wrong, the rebellion started with a Touareg national liberation movement against their social exclusion and economic decline and some people started pushing for Islamism within the chaos of that context. Maybe similar to how the rise of Hamas was a result of secular left-wing Palestinian groups being crushed and now being pro-Palestinian makes you a "pro-terrorist" by default. I am just trying to educate myself a little on the history of Touareg people in colonialism. Something just doesn't sit right with me though to leave it at "fuck 'em both/lesser evilism" and then equate France, a nuclear-weaponized power that colonized probably a third of the planet, home ~60 million people, and having one of the world's largest militaries, with a culture of ~1.5 million traditionally nomadic people. Just saying.

The major Tuareg nationalist militia wants Mali out but they're fine with the French intervention.

http://www.scmp.com/news/world/article/1128799/tuareg-separatists-offer-military-help-defeat-malis-islamists

[Paul Pott]

Taking sides in an inter-capital war is supporting the Entente against Germany, or NATO against China. Or vice versa.

The left truly is lost if we can't even have a consensus on opposing imperialist wars.

[Yet_Another_Boring_Marxist]

Taking sides in an inter-capital war is supporting the Entente against Germany, or NATO against China. Or vice versa.

The left truly is lost if we can't even have a consensus on opposing imperialist wars.

Ermmmmm, so what imperialist is France fighting again....?

Some Arabs armed who want Independence? Doesn't sound like an inter-imperialist conflict to me.

At least this line is applicable to the Taliban since they are a Saudi/Pakistani proxy, but this movement is largely native.

[Ostrinski]

Ermmmmm, so what imperialist is France fighting again....?

Some Arabs armed with sticks and stones? Doesn't sound like an inter-imperialist conflict to me.

At least this line is applicable to the Taliban since they are a Saudi/Pakistani proxy, but this movement is largely native.That's pretty racist. You know they have guns over there, right?

[Yet_Another_Boring_Marxist]

That's pretty racist. You know they have guns over there, right?

Pardon me, I'll edit.

[Paul Pott]

Ermmmmm, so what imperialist is France fighting again....?

...none.

This is not a clash of network centric militaries over economic supremacy or resources. This is a former colonialist power projecting its capital's will over a region of Africa.


Some Arabs armed with sticks and stones? Doesn't sound like an inter-imperialist conflict to me.

1. They're not Arabs.

2. They have decent weaponry.

3. It isn't.


At least this line is applicable to the Taliban since they are a Saudi/Pakistani proxy, but this movement is largely native.

The Taliban is largely native. They also fight the Pakistanis. And the Saudis are pro-west.

[Ostrinski]

Under no circumstances should anyone that dares fancy themselves a communist take up a defencist position. Such is a capitulation to the domestic bourgeoisie of the seiged nation.

It's also Menshevik revivalism.

[Paul Pott]

For the last time, this is not an inter imperialist conflict.

[zimmerwald1915]

For the last time, this is not an inter imperialist conflict.
Because the French are simply auxiliaries of the Americans, and have no imperialist stake in things whatsoever? The imperialist conflict here is between various western powers over who will exercise the most influence in the Malian government, whatever that turns out to be. The Americans in particular are well-placed to come to an accommodation with the Islamists or the Tuareg nationalists using the American-trained defected army units as their base, though for the moment they are backing the current government. The French, meanwhile, seem to have put all their eggs in one basket. The Islamists and nationalists, meanwhile, will each need to find a patron somewhere if the hope to survive encircled by a French alliance system, and if they can't find it in the Americans then they'll start looking farther afield.

[blake 3:17]

I was assuming it was a way of cheering on Hollande. It seems there are particular resource extraction issues involved. The African Union is supporting this. The clearest description from a reliable source is this article from the Globe and Mail:

France faces prolonged conflict in Mali
PAUL WALDIE
LONDON — The Globe and Mail
Published Tuesday, Jan. 15 2013, 8:23 PM EST
Last updated Tuesday, Jan. 15 2013, 10:59 PM EST

French President François Hollande’s decision to intervene militarily in Mali marks a sharp reversal in strategy for France and leaves the country open to a prolonged conflict with a well-armed opponent willing to use terrorist tactics.

For months, Mr. Hollande refused to commit French forces to fight the growing rebellion in Mali, which includes groups linked to al-Qaeda. The Socialist President preferred a more low-key approach, well aware of the often fractured relationships France has with many of its former colonies in West Africa. He pushed for an African-led military solution in Mali with France providing only backup.

But when the rebels advanced within striking distance of the capital, Bamako, last week, Mr. Hollande said he had to act, fearing an al-Qaeda-controlled state at France’s North African back door. He sent more than 500 troops on Friday along with attack helicopters and fighter jets. On Tuesday, he said as many as 2,500 French troops will be deployed and indicated that the mission could last months.

For now the military action is winning strong support in France, Mr. Hollande has received a badly needed boost in popularity at home, and French flags are waving in the streets of Bamako. But how long will that last?

“These things have a due date and popularity is fickle,” said François Heisbourg, a defence expert at the Foundation for Strategic Research in Paris. “People actually have a high toleration of military missions if they are seen as just and which are seen as achievable.

“What the French will not tolerate,” he added, “is the impression of getting into an unachievable, open-ended mission. That’s Afghanistan.”

He and others say Mr. Hollande had little choice but to get involved militarily.

“If Bamako had fallen, he would have been severely criticized by the opposition in France,” said Dominique Moïsi , founder of the French Institute of International Relations. “So in a way he did what was expected of him.”

For France, the stakes are high. Roughly 6,000 French nationals live in Bamako and about 80,000 Malians live in France, with close family ties back home. France also gets most of the uranium that powers its many nuclear plants from mines in neighbouring Niger. And the same rebels France is now bombing are holding seven French hostages.

Officially France wants to stop the rebel advances long enough to handover the conflict to a trained African force, made up of about 3,300 soldiers from several countries. Mr. Hollande said France won’t leave until “Mali is safe, has legitimate authorities, an electoral process and there are no more terrorists threatening its territory,” indicating a long-term commitment.

But Mali has all the potential of being a quagmire. It has been unstable for decades, battling a separatist movement in the north led by the Tuaregs, a largely nomadic people. That movement gained strength in the last two years when the Tuaregs were joined by two jihadist groups, including one linked to al-Qaeda.

Suddenly the separatist movement became a fight to impose radical Islam across all of Mali and the well-armed jihadist, funded largely by ransom payments from kidnappings and drug trafficking, started winning battles against the Malian army. Those defeats led to a military coup last year in Bamako that left Mali with virtually no government

The rebels operate across vast stretches of open desert and rely on a steady stream of weapons from sellers in Libya and elsewhere. Even if France can contain the rebellion, unifying the country again with no real government and a prolonged separatist movement in the Tuaregs will prove more difficult.

There are also questions over whether the African troops will be up to the job and concerns about the role of neighbouring countries like Algeria, which has given some support to the rebels and has had strained relations with France since its war of independence more than 50 years ago. Mr. Hollande visited Algeria last month to ease some of the tension, and for now the visit appears to be paying off, as Algeria has allowed French planes to use its airspace.

“It’s easy to arrive with Mirage aircraft and break up a column of Toyota pickups,” said French journalist and foreign affairs commentator Pierre Haski. “It’s more complicated to design a strategy to reunify the country, create stability, deal with these very mobile groups that are spread over a territory five times the size of France.”

Mali is not the same as the French mission under NATO auspices in Afghanistan, which Mr. Hollande is pushing to end quickly, said Rem Korteweg, a senior fellow at the Centre for European Reform in London.

“We have to look at the [region] as basically France’s backyard – at least that’s the way they tend to like to see it,” Mr. Korteweg said. “It’s very different from his approach to Afghanistan, because the interests are simply very different. The commercial interests are huge [in West Africa], especially if you look at the uranium mines.”

Mr. Heisbourg agreed and added that for now people in France understand the mission. “It’s not very difficult to explain to people that allowing the jiahdist to take over a country is not a great idea for their security,” he said. “The French feel very strongly about terrorism. And these are seriously bad guys.”

Source: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/france-faces-prolonged-conflict-in-mali/article7380277/

[Le Socialiste]

The imperialist conflict here is between various western powers over who will exercise the most influence in the Malian government, whatever that turns out to be. The Americans in particular are well-placed to come to an accommodation with the Islamists or the Tuareg nationalists using the American-trained defected army units as their base, though for the moment they are backing the current government. The French, meanwhile, seem to have put all their eggs in one basket. The Islamists and nationalists, meanwhile, will each need to find a patron somewhere if the hope to survive encircled by a French alliance system, and if they can't find it in the Americans then they'll start looking farther afield.

This would make more sense if the U.S. wasn't already aiding the French intervention:

Leon Panetta Says U.S. Has Pledged to Help France in Mali (http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/15/world/africa/leon-panetta-says-us-has-pledged-to-help-france-in-mali.html?_r=0)

Point is, this conflict has seen U.S.-French collaboration - not rivalry. This applies to the present situation; new developments down the road can lead to competition, but will not significantly alter ties between the two.

[Art Vandelay]

For the last time, this is not an inter imperialist conflict.

So what exactly is your position, to support the islamists?

[Nakidana]

What I'm wondering is what the degree of support is for the Islamists in Northern Mali. So far in all the reports I've been reading the Islamists have been described as an outside force, disliked by the locals who're fleeing in horror because of the atrocities committed etc etc. But this could just as well be the standard exaggeration we hear every time US/NATO goes to war.

I seem to recall reading somewhere that most of the Islamists were locals and many MNLA members actually joined the Islamists. If this is not true, and the Islamists are just a bunch of "foreign fighters", how come MNLA, being a local force, have been swept aside?

Also, looking at the strength of forces it looks like the Islamists are gonna get crushed. France controls the skies and are going to commit 2500 troops. ECOWAS a further 3000 and Mali around 7000. According to Wiki the Islamists only have around 3000 fighters.

[RedMaterialist]

French companies must be heavily involved in Northern Mali resources.

[Overture]

I find it astonishingly embarrassing how no one in this thread has any idea of what is going on in Mali but instead, continues to look at conflicts like these in black-and-white sectarian terms. Revleft never ceases to amaze and disgust me all at the same time. There is no "anti-imperialist" stance left in Mali anymore seeing as how the only political group not tied to an imperialist power was the MNLA. Seeing as how they allied themselves to an almost united front (if you will) with Ansar Dine and the other Wahhabist groups in northern Mali and then within months, found themselves outmaneuvered by their same allies.

If there is one piece of reading that I cannot recommend enough, it's by Jeremy Keenan writing for the New Internationalist. He is probably the best leftist resource on the Tuareg people and he's been working with them since the 70's. He basically links the current situation in Mali to an ongoing quest for control by Algeria as a proxy state of the U.S. It is Algeria who has control of Ansar Dine and MUJAO and they are responsible for turning the MNLA from the biggest force in northern Mali to the most powerless. No socialist rag or internet publication has come close to answering as much questions as Keenan does in this one article and I implore you all to read it. It's quite lengthy but you'll have a better idea of the realities of the conflict, AFRICOM, and the U.S's control of Northern Africa.

www.newint.org/features/2012/12/01/us-terrorism-sahara

[Nakidana]

French companies must be heavily involved in Northern Mali resources.

I doubt it, transport infrastructure is non-existent: http://www.oecd.org/swac/northernmaliataglance.htm

[khad]

www.newint.org/features/2012/12/01/us-terrorism-sahara (http://www.newint.org/features/2012/12/01/us-terrorism-sahara)
Well, that was eye-opening.

In the grim future, there is only PROXY WAR!

[Paul Pott]

So what exactly is your position, to support the islamists?

...to support whatever will lead to the withdrawal of western troops in Mali, to support the frustration of French imperialism, etc.

[Paul Pott]

I find it astonishingly embarrassing how no one in this thread has any idea of what is going on in Mali but instead, continues to look at conflicts like these in black-and-white sectarian terms. Revleft never ceases to amaze and disgust me all at the same time. There is no "anti-imperialist" stance left in Mali anymore seeing as how the only political group not tied to an imperialist power was the MNLA. Seeing as how they allied themselves to an almost united front (if you will) with Ansar Dine and the other Wahhabist groups in northern Mali and then within months, found themselves outmaneuvered by their same allies.

If there is one piece of reading that I cannot recommend enough, it's by Jeremy Keenan writing for the New Internationalist. He is probably the best leftist resource on the Tuareg people and he's been working with them since the 70's. He basically links the current situation in Mali to an ongoing quest for control by Algeria as a proxy state of the U.S. It is Algeria who has control of Ansar Dine and MUJAO and they are responsible for turning the MNLA from the biggest force in northern Mali to the most powerless. No socialist rag or internet publication has come close to answering as much questions as Keenan does in this one article and I implore you all to read it. It's quite lengthy but you'll have a better idea of the realities of the conflict, AFRICOM, and the U.S's control of Northern Africa.

www.newint.org/features/2012/12/01/us-terrorism-sahara (http://www.newint.org/features/2012/12/01/us-terrorism-sahara)

So lemme get this straight, the US, through Algeria, is backing Ansar Dine against the Malian government and against the French to get control of Mali, while both the US and Algeria support the French intervention against their own proxy force.

No thanks, I'll pass on this Keenan fellow's wisdom.

[Paul Pott]

French companies must be heavily involved in Northern Mali resources.

No.

Not yet.

[Overture]

...to support western defeat in Mali.

So, uh, how would there be "western defeat" in Mali when the Islamists are backed by Algeria and the US while the Junta is backed by France?

[Overture]

So lemme get this straight, the US, through Algeria, is backing Ansar Dine against the Malian government and against the French to get control of Mali, while both the US and Algeria support the French intervention against their own proxy force.

No thanks, I'll pass on this Keenan fellow.

Typical idiot response from a trendy type like yourself. If you bothered to read a few paragraphs from this article or anything from Keenan, you'd find out that US-Algerian relations go back to the early 2000's with the Bush administration. That the U.S. has exploited whatever incidents (with the help of Algerian intelligence) to their own advantage. Keenan has written extensively on that for the past decade. But no, please by all means, continue to swallow the illusion of Wahhabists vs the West. You have to have absolutely clueless of political Islam to even believe that anyways.... which you are.

[Paul Pott]

Typical idiot response from a trendy type like yourself. If you bothered to read a few paragraphs from this article or anything from Keenan, you'd find out that US-Algerian relations go back to the early 2000's with the Bush administration. That the U.S. has exploited whatever incidents (with the help of Algerian intelligence) to their own advantage. Keenan has written extensively on that for the past decade. But no, please by all means, continue to swallow the illusion of Wahhabists vs the West. You have to have absolutely clueless of political Islam to even believe that anyways.... which you are.

That's nice, now explain the Algerian support for the French, in tandem with the Americans.

Everyone and their dog is aware of the relations between the US and Algeria.

[Overture]

That's nice, now explain the Algerian support for the French, in tandem with the Americans.
What exactly are you talking about? I wouldn't doubt that Algeria does have support for and from their former colonial overlords but the U.S. has simply done what it has to every other ex-colonial power in Africa, outmaneuvered them.


Everyone and their dog is aware of the relations between the US and Algeria.
Except you, apparently.

[blake 3:17]

French companies must be heavily involved in Northern Mali resources.

From the newspaper article I quoted from: "For France, the stakes are high. Roughly 6,000 French nationals live in Bamako and about 80,000 Malians live in France, with close family ties back home. France also gets most of the uranium that powers its many nuclear plants from mines in neighbouring Niger. And the same rebels France is now bombing are holding seven French hostages."

[Paul Pott]

What exactly are you talking about?

Do I really need to fill you in on Algeria's position on the war?


I wouldn't doubt that Algeria does have support for and from their former colonial overlords but the U.S. has simply done what it has to every other ex-colonial power in Africa, outmaneuvered them.

Wonderful. Apparently the Americans are fine with France installing their favored regime, ie, the current one, in Mali, just like the Europeans were fine with the US doing that in Libya. A French client will be open to American and British interests.

Riddle me this, who trained the ruling Malian military in the first place?



Except you, apparently.

I was unaware the US and Algeria were engaged in a cold war against France in West Africa.

[Geiseric]

In terms of Algeria, it would be good to see the PT force the government to withdraw support from Mali, like they did with Iraq at the beginning of the war. The Workers Party in Algeria may yet play a larger role, they have a huge amount of support today.

[Sentinel]

Typical idiot response from a trendy type like yourself. If you bothered to read a few paragraphs from this article or anything from Keenan, you'd find out that US-Algerian relations go back to the early 2000's with the Bush administration. That the U.S. has exploited whatever incidents (with the help of Algerian intelligence) to their own advantage. Keenan has written extensively on that for the past decade. But no, please by all means, continue to swallow the illusion of Wahhabists vs the West. You have to have absolutely clueless of political Islam to even believe that anyways.... which you are.

Verbal warning: do not throw personal insults at other users, that constitutes flaming and is forbidden in the board rules. Criticising someones politics is perfectly fine, that's what we do here, but comments of this type aren't.

[Art Vandelay]

It never amazes me the type of scum supposedly leftists will support.

[Agathor]

Communists don't take sides in inter-capital fights, there really isn't much more to it then that.

The Islamists are capitalists now?

[Art Vandelay]

The Islamists are capitalists now?

Fighting in the temporary interests of foreign capital, yes.

[Art Vandelay]

I quite obviously didn't mean they were literal capitalists.

[TheEmancipator]

The socialists in France have always been imperialists. Look at Mitterand. Even their popular front in the 30s was instructed by Stalinists to pursue national interests.