totalitarianism?

[nihilust]

Would you say that this school of thought is fascism and communism combined in some aspects i.e. a lot of influence on the state but also workers control of prod? Please leave answers and not criticisms, thank you!

[nihilust]

or would you say communism is inherently totalitarianist? Keep in mind, i am presently enjoying that school of thought, so i do not want trot criticisms.

[Thirsty Crow]

I don't think that "totalitarianism" represents any kind of a school of (political) thought. Instead, it is basically a concept employed by liberals and aimed at any kind of a political structure which differs from the "norm" of liberal, multi-party democracy.


or would you say communism is inherently totalitarianist? Keep in mind, i am presently enjoying that school of thought, so i do not want trot criticisms.
No, communism is not "inherently totalitarian" (no such thing as a totalitarian-ism). If anything should be said on the problem of democracy, communism extends the political liberties of individual workers (and of course that this entails, as we're talking about a class dictatorship, foaming at the mouth) and functions as an process of empowerment and emancipation.

[Blake's Baby]

No.

'Totalitarianism' as a description of political systems originated as a term of approval among the theoreticians of Italian Fascism, and then was taken up after WWII as part of the attempt to link the Fascist/Nazi countries with the Stalinist states, as part of the Cold War ideology.

For some of us of course, the Stalinist states were capitalist anyway, and had no aspects of 'workers' control of production'. So there is no genuine 'communism' in the notion of totalitarianism anyway.

[PC LOAD LETTER]

Totalitarianism has no practical meaning, it just means 'something I don't like'. Every system must be "totalitarian" to function, for example, right now, capital itself is totalitarian, creeping into and commodifying everything it possibly can, capital is the dictator.

[nihilust]

so your then saying its less a system and rather, some leaders of any type of political ideology, embrace aspects of "totalitarian rule".

[nihilust]

Im obviously a proponent in the USSR system. Ive read a great many of stalins early works and it is obvious, in my opinion, that he was a strong marxist but he did have some total. aspects of the USSR

[Decolonize The Left]

so your then saying its less a system and rather, some leaders of any type of political ideology, embrace aspects of "totalitarian rule".

Totalitarianism is a specific political structure which can be used by many political ideologies in order to control a nation-state. It involves, as it's name implies, the total control of the society by the party at hand and this is usually enforced through the state as it has all the mechanisms in place for socio-political dominance.

It is often used as a synonym to fascism.

[The Feral Underclass]

Im obviously a proponent in the USSR system

Why?

[Le Socialiste]

Would you say that this school of thought is fascism and communism combined in some aspects i.e. a lot of influence on the state but also workers control of prod? Please leave answers and not criticisms, thank you!

Totalitarianism is just a buzzword utilized by the political establishment (liberals and conservatives alike). It has no real place here as far as I'm concerned.

As for the idea that one could 'combine' aspects of communism and fascism, no, this isn't possible. The two are drastically different from one another; fascism, as a strictly counterrevolutionary movement, represents the final defense of capital and typically arises in response to growing shifts within the working-class at a time of great upheaval. For Germany it was the collapse of the Kaiser and the rise to power of the SPD and other workers' organizations, in Spain the Republican government and the ensuing civil war. There are many other such examples, but the key thing to notice (if nothing else) is this: the desperation of the bourgeoisie in these instances revealed the extent to which they were willing to preserve their power and standing over class society and the means of governance and production, resorting to the most brutal methods to keep it.


or would you say communism is inherently totalitarianist? Keep in mind, i am presently enjoying that school of thought, so i do not want trot criticisms.

Communism is diametrically opposed to fascism in all its totality, so no - it is not "inherently totalitarian." If you're merely equating communism with state ownership of the economy, you don't have a very clear conception of what it is. Menocchio put it best, I think. But what's the point of asking a question if you don't want to hear any criticisms? Trotskyists aren't the only ones who would take issue with what you've outlined here, so there's no point in singling them out. All in all, asking a question only to say you don't want to hear a specific group's answer is ridiculous. Kinda defeats the purpose I'd say.

[Blake's Baby]

Yeah, 3 Left Comms, an Anarchist and a Troskyist (sorry August, no idea what your tendency is) probably aren't going to be the best people to answer the question in any kind of 'pro-Stalin' sort of way.

[Tim Cornelis]

Instead, it is basically a concept employed by liberals and aimed at any kind of a political structure which differs from the "norm" of liberal, multi-party democracy.

No it's not. Totalitarianism is not "any kind of a political structure which differs from the "norm" of liberal, multi-party democracy." In political science, totalitarianism refers to a specific form of highly authoritarian regimes. Belarus and Morocco, for instance, are not liberal democracies, yet do not qualify as totalitarian.


Totalitarianism has no practical meaning, it just means 'something I don't like'. Every system must be "totalitarian" to function, for example, right now, capital itself is totalitarian, creeping into and commodifying everything it possibly can, capital is the dictator.

This is just lousy semantics. Totalitarianism does not mean any system that is "total." Totalitarianism, obviously, was derived from "total" but doesn't mean that that is its meaning. The fact that you can speak your mind proves you do not live in a totalitarian regime.

totalitarianism, form of government that theoretically permits no individual
freedom and that seeks to subordinate all aspects of the individual’s life to the authority of the government. Italian dictator Benito Mussolini coined the term totalitario in the early 1920s to describe the new fascist state of Italy, which he further described as: “All within the state, none outside the state, none against the state.

Totalitarianism is often distinguished from dictatorship, despotism, or tyranny by its supplanting of all political institutions with new ones and its sweeping away of all legal, social, and political traditions.

http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/600435/totalitarianism

In essence, totalitarianism seeks to enforce, through direct physical coercion, societal homogeneity.

[nihilust]

thank you! this is the best answer i've read so far. The main reason i asked is that it seemed Stalin implied total. rule in some aspects of the ussr. is it possible to implement some aspects of total. while still being a "communist"?

[#FF0000]

thank you! this is the best answer i've read so far. The main reason i asked is that it seemed Stalin implied total. rule in some aspects of the ussr. is it possible to implement some aspects of total. while still being a "communist"?

No.

And further, Stalin/the state did not have total some icy totalitarian grip over the entire USSR. The country was pretty much a giant, chaotic clusterfuck all day every day.

[YugoslavSocialist]

Read 1984 to know what Totalitarianism is

[The Feral Underclass]

thank you! this is the best answer i've read so far. The main reason i asked is that it seemed Stalin implied total. rule in some aspects of the ussr. is it possible to implement some aspects of total. while still being a "communist"?

Why are you asking these questions?

Why do you want to know if communism is compatible with totalitarianism? Don't you think a better question would be: What is the best way to create working class liberation?

[#FF0000]

Read 1984 to know what Totalitarianism is

No

[Ostrinski]

Leave your totalitarianism at the door. It reeks of antagonistic class relations and we in the house of communism have sensitive allergies and need stateless air quality.

[nativeabuse]

Totalitarianism is just authoritarian rule taken to an extreme, until it encompasses every aspect of life.

But it is mainly used as nothing but propaganda to the point that it has sort of lost that meaning, kind of like how nazi is thrown around constantly to describe anything bad.

[Art Vandelay]

If you posit to be a communist (communism being stateless and all) how on earth would totalitarian rule exist?

[Decolonize The Left]

If you posit to be a communist (communism being stateless and all) how on earth would totalitarian rule exist?

Well, totalitarianism need not necessarily function through a state, per se. An example would be a man who ran 'his household' with totalitarian rule: everyone did what he said, when he said, and how he said it. He

But yes, communism is totally incompatible with totalitarianism.


Yeah, 3 Left Comms, an Anarchist and a Troskyist (sorry August, no idea what your tendency is) probably aren't going to be the best people to answer the question in any kind of 'pro-Stalin' sort of way.

Lol. I'm definitely not a trot, but thanks for trying. The only 'ideology' which would remotely represent my politics would be either the general label of Marxism or some loose definition of anarcho-communism.

[Blake's Baby]

...

Lol. I'm definitely not a trot, but thanks for trying. The only 'ideology' which would remotely represent my politics would be either the general label of Marxism or some loose definition of anarcho-communism.

The '3 Left Comms' were me, PC LOAD LETTER and Menocchio; 'the Anarchist' was The Anarchist Tension, and 'the Trotskyist' was Le Socialiste. I said I didn't know what your tendency was, because I didn't know what your tendency was. Not because I thought you were a Trotskyist.

[nihilust]

i was just asking out of curiosity. came up with a theory that happens to counteract communism in a sense, and this was a question that stemmed from that. Just curious people, thank you!

[AgrarianCommunist]

USSR wasn't a Communist/State Socialist but an State Capitalist so we can't put Totalitarianism is the same bag of communism .

[YugoslavSocialist]

No

Why not

[Blake's Baby]

Are you serious?

Communist society will be classless and stateless. How can a classless, stateless society have state control of civic society?