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View Full Version : The 'Everyone's Material Conditions Have Improved Under Capitalism' argument.



Oswy
4th January 2013, 16:18
I don't accept it as a global fact even if an argument might be made that in the centres of capitalism (like in the US or UK) the average satisfaction of basic need has improved overal under capitalism.

Anyway, my argument is that an unjust system in which the earth and its resources are monopolised by a capitalist class, and in which the productive forces dependent upon them are also monopolised, makes capitalism inevitably alienating and exploitative, regardless of whether or not the satisfaction of need was by some degree or other going up for everyone. My analogy would be that while the conditions of slaves might be shown to improve over time it is not a defence of slavery.

Any thoughts, criticisms or additions?

Conscript
4th January 2013, 16:26
They have but not because of any inherent 'magic' in capitalism liberals fetishize. Our standards have gone up, we are producing much more of everything, thanks to socialized production, not capitalism. At this point capitalism in a hindrance on our productive and consuming abilities. It cannot survive in conditions of post-scarcity, so abundance and socialized distribution are impossible within it.

Even if we have all the tools necessary, capitalism will never provide an end to the need for work. It thrives on pointless accumulation.

Tjis
4th January 2013, 16:29
I'd like to add that any progressive features capitalism has had are now long gone, and currently capitalism is actually holding back further life standard improvement. The reason for capitalism's claim to being progressive is the fact that under capitalism large-scale industry started, lowering the labor-time required to produce necessities. But with large-scale industry well in place now, there's nothing progressive for capitalism left to do.

Vladimir Innit Lenin
4th January 2013, 18:11
Yes, compared to feudal society or anything that came before, capitalism is/was revolutionary. But as said above, the developed (important!) capitalist world is in a position today where capitalism is clearly not the system to deliver the best standard of living for a significant majority of the population.