How do I deal with living on conquered land?

[Relyks]

Hi,

I'm a Euro-American with left-wing views.

The above sentence has got me thinking. How do I justify having left wing views while being a descendant of people who took over the very land I'm living on from the original inhabitants, and shuttled them into rather miserable reservations?

My heritage also leaves me in a relatively privileged position in terms of how society and the state treats me (less likely to get arrested for certain crimes and so on).

I imagine that people in other settler cultures face the same dilemma (Australia, Israel, and so forth).

What is the justification? It's just a dilemma I've been thinking about.

[piet11111]

Did you conquer that land and oppress anyone ?

If not your not to blame for what your ancestors did and should instead focus on doing what you believe is right in the here and now.

[Rafiq]

By your logic no leftist has ever existed

[hetz]

Join the nearest Third-Worldist organization immediately.
Pretty much every nation "conquered" someone elses' land. The Germans in Europe conquered, so did the Slavs, the Hungarians... the list goes on and on.

[Blake's Baby]

Move to East Africa, it's where all humans came from. Grow dreadlocks and smoke herb. Then complain that no other human-invadey-descended scum have done the same, and think you're better then them.

Or, get over it. Are your great-great-great-great-great-great-great grandchildren going to be to blame for what you do in life? Of course not.

[thriller]

You can't blame yourself for the past, only the class antagonisms that existed that allowed for such awful things to happen. I am white and live in the US. Yet none of my ancestors ever owned slaves. In fact my great-great-grandfather was only allowed citizenship if he fought for the Union in the Civil War (which he did). My grandfather was a union man who did wonders for the paper-mill workers who suffered bullshit attacks from the management of the mill. They were both white. Not trying to say I am leftists-er than thou, but there are plenty of situations where white Americans have helped to progressive society towards a better place for workers and different races. And even if your ancestors did own slaves, well that was them, not you. Unfortunately sometimes we are fed the idea that if someone is a white suburban male, they are hypocrites for being radicals or wanting to change the system. When in fact it is hypocritical to assign race, gender, and geographic place of birth as "credentials" for what people can believe or accomplish.

[Ocean Seal]

Hi,

I'm a Euro-American with left-wing views.

The above sentence has got me thinking. How do I justify having left wing views while being a descendant of people who took over the very land I'm living on from the original inhabitants, and shuttled them into rather miserable reservations?

Take a deep breath.
Relax.
Its not your fault.
You didn't conquer them.
Just don't be an ignorant white person who complains about how the conquered complain about the fact that they were conquered.
-Sincerely Someone who is Half White Half Conquered


My heritage also leaves me in a relatively privileged position in terms of how society and the state treats me (less likely to get arrested for certain crimes and so on).

I imagine that people in other settler cultures face the same dilemma (Australia, Israel, and so forth).

What is the justification? It's just a dilemma I've been thinking about.

You are also oppressed by the state. There are white people in jail. Fuck some shit up, fight back for everyone. You don't have to justify your views to anyone.

[Trap Queen Voxxy]

No one 'owns' land, whether they be an indigenous inhabitant or imperialist fuckhole; any gypsy can tell you this.

Leave your white guilt at the door.

[bad ideas actualised by alcohol]

Reminds me of a song:
"I'm sorry
For something that I didn't do
Lynched somebody
But I don't know who
You blame me for slavery
A hundred years before I was born"

[l'Enfermé]

OP you're a terrible terrible person. How many Indians have you killed today, you monster?

Pftt, you white people and your white guilt :lol:

[Jimmie Higgins]

How do I justify having left wing views while being a descendant of people who took over the very land I'm living on from the original inhabitants, and shuttled them into rather miserable reservations?By fighting for people to reconquer all land for common use.


My heritage also leaves me in a relatively privileged position in terms of how society and the state treats me (less likely to get arrested for certain crimes and so on).You can alleviate this sentiment by fighting for everyone to be just as "privileged" and then-some. Assuming you are not committing major crimes and going unpunished (or unsuspected even) for it, then why worry about being treated according to the law as written and being afforded some of the "fairness" that our completely unjust, on principle, legal system claims to represent? Ultimately all non-ruling class people are under potential threat of repression by police - but there are real degrees to which this impacts us as well as differences in who is actually targeted for enforcement. That's the problem: the systemic targeting and control of the population, specifically with the use of institutional racism; not that the police haven't got around to you yet because they're too busy brutalizing blacks and immigrants and homeless people!


I imagine that people in other settler cultures face the same dilemma (Australia, Israel, and so forth). Let's just say that I think that contemporary oppression is more important to worry about than the psychological impact on the non-oppressed. Irregardless to how non-oppressed but non-ruling groups feel about X, Y, Z, that, in of itself, does nothing about the negative legacy of history or ongoing contemporary oppression. How someone understands history, however can inform consciousness and their action in the present, so that is why this history of injustice is important for both the specifically oppressed and non-oppressed non-rulers. If people can have an understanding of the past that informs us about what oppression is rooted it and how it can be fought, then rather than mourning it, they can organize to change society.

[Yuppie Grinder]

yo i'm white and all sorts of radical don't worry about it

[LeonJWilliams]

All land and property etc belongs to all people, not those with money, not businesses and not countries.
All land is conquered because it is not freely in the hands of the people.

[Jimmie Higgins]

And can folks please tone-down the sarcasm when dealing with questions by new posters on their 2nd freaking post!

[Louis Riel]

There's no need to feel guilt for what your ancestors did. I do think it is very important that you address the issues that modern aboriginal populations face though. Your government is suppressing the native peoples to near extinction. There seems to be this notion in Canada that natives are a thing of the past, that indigenous peoples are no longer around. People don't know about the problems facing native peoples today, most people don't know about Attawapiskat or Dudley George and the Ipperwash claim. Native peoples are being surpessed NOW, here in this country and in yours.

[The Intransigent Faction]

There's no need to feel guilt for what your ancestors did. I do think it is very important that you address the issues that modern aboriginal populations face though. Your government is suppressing the native peoples to near extinction. There seems to be this notion in Canada that natives are a thing of the past, that indigenous peoples are no longer around. People don't know about the problems facing native peoples today, most people don't know about Attawapiskat or Dudley George and the Ipperwash claim. Native peoples are being surpessed NOW, here in this country and in yours.

Er, he said he is American. Good points though.

[Geiseric]

Hi,

I'm a Euro-American with left-wing views.

The above sentence has got me thinking. How do I justify having left wing views while being a descendant of people who took over the very land I'm living on from the original inhabitants, and shuttled them into rather miserable reservations?

My heritage also leaves me in a relatively privileged position in terms of how society and the state treats me (less likely to get arrested for certain crimes and so on).

I imagine that people in other settler cultures face the same dilemma (Australia, Israel, and so forth).

What is the justification? It's just a dilemma I've been thinking about.

Well were also descendents of probably some viking or medieval warrior who raped and killeda bunch of people on some crusade, doesn't mean we have to feel bad about it. This isn't like you're aragorn from lord of the rings, and your entire fate depends on the fact that you're the heir of ilsildur. You're who you think you're, so don't fret bro, just do what you can and try to improve the world, don't let the maoist third worldists get to you.

[Let's Get Free]

Cut your wrists, maybe that'll make you feel better.

[Sinister Cultural Marxist]

As other people said, don't feel guilt over it. Better to struggle for the economic and social empowerment of existing native people and bring that struggle in line with the struggle for everyone's economic and social empowerment.

[RedSonRising]

To be fair, I wouldn't go so far as to say "it's not your problem." Historical inequalities with lasting repercussions that reinforce the system of oppression we live in today are important to keep in mind. Viking takeovers and the Trail of Tears are two very different things in terms of a nexus with modern issues. Of course guilt over a process you had no business starting is not the way to go, but there's nothing wrong with recognizing the fact, and I'd say doing so is imperative to solving the problem and contributing to revolution.

[Lucretia]

Move to Mars.

[MarxSchmarx]

Cut your wrists, maybe that'll make you feel better.

That's not funny. Consider yourself warned for flaming.

That goes to everyone else. stop w/ the dumb one liners.

[The Garbage Disposal Unit]

Anticolonial solidarity should be absolutely central to North American radical theory and practice - fuck these shit "Well, you didn't kill anyone did you?" posts that fail to acknowledge the ongoing impact of settlerism on indigenous communities, and its role vis- the broader functioning of North American capitalism.

As for what you can do - there's lots. One thing is unflinchingly presenting the reality of the ongoing colonial situation, and confronting racist settlerism in all of its everyday manifestations. Seriously study the history of settler-native relations, and arm yourself with the information you need to challenge discourses that say, "They died of disease," "They get free money from the government," "They're poor because their leaders are corrupt," and so on.

In Canada, Idle No More (though fraught with many problems - dig Warrior Publications (http://www.revleft.com/vb/warriorpublications.wordpress.com/)for some critical take) has brought many pressing issues to the forefront. Now is the perfect time to start finding people and opportunities for seriously engaging with this stuff.

And, yeah, "guilt" is pretty useless. Don't mope, organize.

[Lacrimi de Chiciură]

When leftists and right-wingers are clamouring to see who can be the loudest in their disavowal of so-called "white guilt" it might be politically suicidal to talk about white shame, but this is what Relyks's question implies more than guilt. Euro-American repression of feelings of shame is strong enough that it essentially isn't even spoken of, and the straw man of guilt is talked about all the more frequently to compensate for this discursive void so that "innocence" for bygone crimes can be loudly proclaimed and proven, the past laid to rest and we can all get on living in the delusional colorblind post-racist societies we all know and love. "Innocent until proven guilty." Shameless until proven...?? But the fact that the dead horse of leftists'/liberals' supposed "white guilt" has to be continually beaten is a testament to the degree to which the mobilization of the idea of "white race" in the interests of imperialism continues to haunt the white consciousness. Maybe whiteness and leftism is another form of DuBois's double consciousness: two warring ideals in one pasty body.

Guilt you feel with respect to a specific criminal action. Guilt can be remedied by reparations. But, so-called "white people" didn't perpetrate colonization, genocide, slavery, the Maafa, and the Middle Passage, rather some dead "white" individuals did. Guilty people feel bad about something they did (maybe like perpetuating racism by identifying themselves with and assimilating to a myth of whiteness socially constructed and historically articulated around the ruling class ideology of racial supremacy--"It wasn't me, but I identify myself, and accept being identified, with the people who did it"--but I digress.)

Shame is similar to guilt but it has different emphasis in that it calls the whole being of one Self into question. Ashamed people feel bad about what or who they are, not a specific thing that they did. So in answer to the question,


How do I justify having left wing views while being a descendant of people who took over the very land I'm living on from the original inhabitants, and shuttled them into rather miserable reservations?

Perhaps you should value shame as a motivator instead of repressing/devaluing it like the dominant American culture tells you to do. Be attentive to those everyday situations where you might feel shame and ask yourself why. Maybe you go to a baseball game and feel bad when the people indoctrinated by imperialism and colonialism proclaim their love for the legacy of manifest destiny in their national anthem and ostracize you if you do not participate in the ritual ("stand up for the troops you disrespectful piece of shit", they may tell you), but you should actually feel good about your being ashamed of this display of foolishness, because it means you have integrity and are a good human being. Perhaps shame is the "appropriate emotional response" to the fact of a person's Self being deeply informed by and existing due to genocide, land theft, and being part of a recently formed settler society in profound denial about its illegitimacy. Value it because it is part of what motivates you to change things. It would not only be more shameful, but also criminally stupid if you were to embrace the paleo-conservative white supremacist views which ethnicity would supposedly "justify." We might like to believe even that adopting left-wing views is a form of self-improvement. Be proud of who you choose to be, not just what you are made to be. No one is guilty for being "spawn of settlers," but they are responsible for how they act, being aware and informing themselves in the realities of the present furnished by the past.


Reminds me of a song:
"I'm sorry
For something that I didn't do
Lynched somebody
But I don't know who
You blame me for slavery
A hundred years before I was born"

American slavery is guaranteed by the 13th amendment which laid the foundation of the convict leasing system, chain gangs, and other forms of unpaid forced labor as well as the ongoing criminalization of black communities. IT'S not about blaming white straitadge dudes for slavery, but maybe one can be blamed as part of the problem if they obscure these facts by supporting the mythical narrative of slavery being "abolished a long time ago."

[Blake's Baby]

... No one is guilty for being "spawn of settlers," but they are responsible for how they act, being aware and informing themselves in the realities of the present furnished by the past...

This is the fundamental point really. We make history, but not in circumstances of our own chosing.

[Sir Comradical]

You flagellate yourself with a whip made from the traditional clothing of the indigenous culture.

I kidd, there isn't a place in the world that wasn't conquered by one tribe/army/culture. That's not to say indigenous populations aren't oppressed, in many cases they are, but given that they're already for the most part integrated into the capitalist system, it's their objective class interests that matter for leftists.

[red magic]

I don't think you should be worrying about what your ancestors did. Society has changed since then and we are a very different people. Just because you are related by blood does not make you anything like them. Stop with the white guilt.

[The Garbage Disposal Unit]

I don't think you should be worrying about what your ancestors did. Society has changed since then and we are a very different people. Just because you are related by blood does not make you anything like them. Stop with the white guilt.

Except that "what your ancestors did" and what your contemporaries are doing are fundamentally linked. Existing capitalism is premised on relationships established by colonialism, and we're not "a very different people" at all (case in point, racist settler backlash against Idle No More in Canada). If we are serious anticapitalists, we have to seriously confront the (neo-)colonial structures that underwrite it.

Also, re: Negative Creep
WORST MINOR THREAT SONG. UTTER UNCHECKED RACIST BULLSHIT.

[bad ideas actualised by alcohol]

Except that "what your ancestors did" and what your contemporaries are doing are fundamentally linked. Existing capitalism is premised on relationships established by colonialism, and we're not "a very different people" at all (case in point, racist settler backlash against Idle No More in Canada). If we are serious anticapitalists, we have to seriously confront the (neo-)colonial structures that underwrite it.

Also, re: Negative Creep
WORST MINOR THREAT SONG. UTTER UNCHECKED RACIST BULLSHIT.

Oh.