Be a Man

[Jason]

One of the most biting attacks on left by the right is the insult: "Lefties are wimps with no 'cave man' instinct." You can't complain about the worker being a slave to the boss, because the worker is just being a whiner.

Now I admit some people in a capitalist society aren't trying very hard. But the right is giving the insult that anybody who complains about the system is not "toughing it out". I suppose would include 5 year olds in sweatshops. :rolleyes:

How could someone on RevLeft answer this charge? Are there any reactionaries who support the "wimp accusations"?

Now I'm sure even the right doesn't think children should have to tough it out, only 20 or 30 something aged "mama's boys". :unsure:

[#FF0000]

I dunno. I find it pretty easy because I do blue collar work and usually volunteer for all sorts of overtime when I can while the dummies who pull this particular card on me are old bitter white boomers collecting social security.

No shame in collecting benefits, of course. The shame is in the hypocrisy.

[The Garbage Disposal Unit]

Mrm . . . one could point out that their fetishization of hegemonic masculinity and Protestant work-ethic is indicative of intense sexual repression, low self-esteem, and immature externalization.

[Os Cangaceiros]

I've never heard this criticism before. The Right complains a lot about the state of modern society so the criticism doesn't make much sense.

[Leftsolidarity]

That they shouldn't have too?

[Jason]

I've never heard this criticism before. The Right complains a lot about the state of modern society so the criticism doesn't make much sense.

You find it in right wing comedy and books. There is a small element of truth in their accusations, but it's not really looking at the "big picture". How can they justify third world oppression by diverting attention toward some 30 year old in his parent's basement? :rolleyes:

[Rugged Collectivist]

One of the most biting attacks on left by the right is the insult: "Lefties are wimps with no 'cave man' instinct."

Not exactly what I would consider a biting attack...


You can't complain about the worker being a slave to the boss, because the worker is just being a whiner.

How does that follow? Were chattel slaves just being whiners?


Now I admit some people in a capitalist society aren't trying very hard.

Good.


But the right is giving the insult that anybody who complains about the system is not "toughing it out".

Just pick something they complain about and tell them to tough it out. The argument is so shitty it can be applied to anything.



I suppose would include 5 year olds in sweatshops. :rolleyes:

Now I'm sure even the right doesn't think children should have to tough it out, only 20 or 30 something aged "mama's boys". :unsure:

I guess most rightists are opposed to child labor, but then you get those awful people who think it "builds character" or some dumb shit. You also might get the whole "1 dollar a week is a lot where they live!" spiel.

[Domela Nieuwenhuis]

Recent study uncovered how most managers and bosses are psychopaths.

The article said that the best managers are able to switch off or lack compassion. Most of their psychology is very similar to the murdering psychopaths we all know (Manson etc.).

Does that explain why right wing (most managers are) is lacking some humanity? Does it explain why they actually behave like caveman? (they sure as hell have missed out on some evolution)

Fact is that most of 'em are bullies. They are the big versions of the assholes who gave you a wedgie or stole your lunchmoney. That's why they got where they are.
Say shit to your superior, degrade your staff.

That's my view on it anyway.

[Ele'ill]

There have been people at work who have pulled this, usually low level management, where they'll say something like 'work is your life you skip lunch, stay four or five hours late cut your hours later at the end of the week, no medical benefits, low pay that's the way it is *toughface*' as if all that is actually pulling one over on the situation and bettering your soul or something like getting overworked and shit on works to your advantage some how. Tough would be standing up for yourself and for others around you. The last person who was trolling this line was telling aspiring managers to not sleep and just always volunteer for shifts and all the other above stuff. He didn't sleep for a long time and wrecked his car and had a nervous breakdown. He didn't have the money to pay for it and got evicted.

[#FF0000]

I like it when you get people like that on the floor, too. Douchebag company men who are usually absolute idiots and total sycophants. One guy I worked with at the warehouse this season was like that. Dude was all about working harder and not smarter and would try to tell other people (like me) how to do their job.

Guess who never had a fully loaded truck by the end of the day that entire season and got hurt all the time?

My favorite experience, though, was meeting an "independent" merchant marine who was proud that he wasn't union and got so much less pay and no benefits for working in heavy industry lol

[Ethics Gradient, Traitor For All Ages]

I like it when you get people like that on the floor, too. Douchebag company men who are usually absolute idiots and total sycophants. One guy I worked with at the warehouse this season was like that. Dude was all about working harder and not smarter and would try to tell other people (like me) how to do their job.

Guess who never had a fully loaded truck by the end of the day that entire season and got hurt all the time?

My favorite experience, though, was meeting an "independent" merchant marine who was proud that he wasn't union and got so much less pay and no benefits for working in heavy industry lol

My company interacts with public sector workers most of the time. I get to hear my coworkers constantly pat themselves on the back for getting less pay and fewer benefits than the unionized folks. It's weird.

[Ravachol]

One of the most biting attacks on left by the right is the insult: "Lefties are wimps with no 'cave man' instinct." You can't complain about the worker being a slave to the boss, because the worker is just being a whiner.

Now I admit some people in a capitalist society aren't trying very hard. But the right is giving the insult that anybody who complains about the system is not "toughing it out".

Yeah I mean fuck 'whining' or 'putting up with shit' or other forms of slave mentality, if anything proles 'toughen up' by knocking over the boss and not giving 2 shits about who 'deserves' what.

[Trap Queen Voxxy]

I 'dated' a guy like this who would say shit like Mr. Burns, was some gross conservative libertard but then said guy bawled like hungry infant when I told him I just used him for free moneys and gifts. My point? They're usually the most weakest, idiotic, naive, silly people, ever; all that bark doesn't mean shit. Tough it out my ass, rich folk couldn't live 5 seconds in my shoes or in my hood, lmao, GTFO.

[RedAtheist]

One of the most biting attacks on left by the right is the insult: "Lefties are wimps with no 'cave man' instinct."

Like that's a bad thing


You can't complain about the worker being a slave to the boss, because the worker is just being a whiner.

Now I admit some people in a capitalist society aren't trying very hard. But the right is giving the insult that anybody who complains about the system is not "toughing it out". I suppose would include 5 year olds in sweatshops. :rolleyes:

How could someone on RevLeft answer this charge? Are there any reactionaries who support the "wimp accusations"?

Ask them to explain what's so great about conforming to the male gender stereotype and enduring exploitation, without appealling to the supposed importance of conforming to the male gender stereotype and enduring exploitation.

If they can't provide a non-circular argument for their position, then they probably have a fundamentally different set of philosophical values from you, one that celebrates and promotes the domination of big, strong groups over weaker groups. If this is the case, then give up.

[Green Girl]

One of the most biting attacks on left by the right is the insult: "Lefties are wimps with no 'cave man' instinct." You can't complain about the worker being a slave to the boss, because the worker is just being a whiner.

That really is not an attack but a lack on the righties part of understanding who makes the actual product or service that brings money into the business so the capitalist bosses can appropriate most of it.

I show them this picture: http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-MWI-kSHuMQM/UN-a7hL2PoI/AAAAAAAAAlg/hdbPP4elMRE/s400/Anti-capitalism.jpg

It's the bosses the righties support who are the fat "lazy" cats, most of whom have never worked an honest day in their life.

[Os Cangaceiros]

You find it in right wing comedy and books.

That's probably why I've never seen it. ;)

[Flying Purple People Eater]

You find it in right wing comedy and books.
They EXIST!?

"Sir, I'm going to steal all of your hard-earned money in a payrise using my brutish authoritarian union!"

"But I worked for that - giving people a small amount of money so that they can file papers and construct products that will make me absolutely rich is bloody tiring!"

[Sea]

One of the most biting attacks on left by the right is the insult: "Lefties are wimps with no 'cave man' instinct." You can't complain about the worker being a slave to the boss, because the worker is just being a whiner.No 'cave man' instinct?

The phrase socialism or barbarism comes to mind...

[Vanguard1917]

So revolutionaries are wimps, but those who meekly submit to their superiors are 'manly' and somehow brave?

Seems like a rather odd line of reasoning.

[Sheepy]

So revolutionaries are wimps, but those who meekly submit to their superiors are 'manly' and somehow brave?

Seems like a rather odd line of reasoning.

It's not odd: under capitalism, it's "common sense"! ;D

[ind_com]

One of the most biting attacks on left by the right is the insult: "Lefties are wimps with no 'cave man' instinct." You can't complain about the worker being a slave to the boss, because the worker is just being a whiner.

We should start Indian style boss-burning allover the world.

[nativeabuse]

Recent study uncovered how most managers and bosses are psychopaths.

The article said that the best managers are able to switch off or lack compassion. Most of their psychology is very similar to the murdering psychopaths we all know (Manson etc.).



Can you link to that please, it sounds very interesting.

[Domela Nieuwenhuis]

Can you link to that please, it sounds very interesting.

I was a dutch article, but i'll do my best to find something in english.

[Domela Nieuwenhuis]

It is not entirely the same, but the essence is similar:

Study: 1 in 25 Business Leaders May Be Psychopaths (http://healthland.time.com/2011/09/20/study-1-in-25-business-leaders-may-be-psychopaths/)

and

Corporate managers have more psychopathic traits, says study (http://www.greenleft.org.au/node/49144)

[Jason]

It is not entirely the same, but the essence is similar:

Study: 1 in 25 Business Leaders May Be Psychopaths (http://healthland.time.com/2011/09/20/study-1-in-25-business-leaders-may-be-psychopaths/)

and

Corporate managers have more psychopathic traits, says study (http://www.greenleft.org.au/node/49144)

The ability to fire someone is desireable. Of course, there's ways of firing people without shoving thier nose in it.

[Blake's Baby]

What's a 'caveman instinct'? As an archaeologist/anthropologist with an interest in human origins, I'd be interested to know.

I'd also be interested in whether anyone expressing notions about such ideas could actually survive a fortnight as a hunter-gatherer.

[Comrade #138672]

"Be a man" incorrectly assumes that a man should adapt himself to his gender role 'determined' by society.

It is interesting how a short phrase like that can have so many sexist implications.

Its opposite is also quite literally "Don't be a woman [pussy]."

[hetz]

There was this one "thinker" ( might be Friedman ?) who said that "collectivistic" societies tend to turn "independent, self-reliant and so on men" into whimps who are completely dependent on others and the state taking care of them.
That this is total bullshit is I think pretty obvious to everyone with half a brain.

[Jason]

There was this one "thinker" ( might be Friedman ?) who said that "collectivistic" societies tend to turn "independent, self-reliant and so on men" into whimps who are completely dependent on others and the state taking care of them.
That this is total bullshit is I think pretty obvious to everyone with half a brain.

Under capitalism people are dependent on the private sector. So it's just one form of dependence exchanged for another.

Ironically, people are free under socialism, NOT capitalism, because the government serves the people. But then we go back to the "freedom for whom?" idea. What's defined as the people doesn't include rich fat cats, racists, and gangsters.