China moving away from socialism.

[el_profe]

:D
somone pointed out to me that china's GDP was growing faster than the USA's GDp, he was trying to show that a "socialist" country was actually growing faster than a "capitalist" country.
However like i pointed out this is happening because of the fact that they are moving away from socialism:
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=stor...rivate_property (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=516&e=5&u=/ap/20031222/ap_on_re_as/china_private_property)

quote from the article: "BEIJING - Millions of Chinese who have plunged into capitalism by starting businesses and investing in stocks and bonds will be guaranteed their right to private property for the first time since the 1949 revolution under a constitutional amendment proposed Monday by communist leaders. "
:o :lol: ;)

Seems China sees whats better, right.

[Fidelbrand]

haha.. :lol:

Really depends on your defintion of the word "better" .

In this case,

Increasing endless externalization with degradation of the soul,
OR
Increasing growth of intrinsic spiritual quality.

More Zombies are being created with China's economic growth...

[SonofRage]

China moved away from socialism a long time ago. I suggest you watch the documentery China in the Red (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/red/) from PBS. You can watch the whole thing for free online. It will show you the conditions that exist in China these days and how they have gotten worse since they have been moving to state capitalism.

[Yazman]

Socialism in China died when Mao did.

[LuZhiming]

China hasn't been socialist in a long time. Now China is indeed better off than it was under Mao's Socialism, but don't try to paint it as a glorious place. The gap between the rich in poor in China is horrendously large, the level of people on the streets is high, and prostitution is rampart. With all of the resources and trading with the U.S., it isn't a surprise that China is better off. But this isn't a good arguement for the greatness of Capitalism, or the failure of Socialism, if that's what you're trying to make it.

[Bolshevika]

Now China is indeed better off than it was under Mao's Socialism.

Firstly, I'd like to ask this, do you consider yourself a Marxist?

Under Mao Tse Tung the people had a leader that looked out for them, universal employment, labour rights, and egalitarianism.

What do they have now? Nike sweatshops? The "communist party" owning 95% of the economy? Western decadence?

Today China's economic base was built by Chairman Mao's 5 year plans, not state capitalist Nike sweatshop labour.

Every time there is a labour strike in China (almost always crushed by Chinese fascist government) the workers hold up portraits of Chairman Mao, do you really think he was unpopular?

[New Tolerance]

Damn, I know alot of Chinese elderly who are much more friendly than the Chinese young people these days. Now these kind of people are all dying out because there's no more socialism.

[LuZhiming]

Firstly, I'd like to ask this, do you consider yourself a Marxist?

I don't limit myself to one ideology. I could be a Marxist, or an Anarchist, or a Socialist, or a supporter of a Dictatorship.


Under Mao Tse Tung the people had a leader that looked out for them, universal employment, labour rights, and egalitarianism.

What do they have now? Nike sweatshops? The "communist party" owning 95% of the economy? Western decadence?

This arguement is so absurd. It's simple: Millions of people starved to death thanks to Mao. Sorry, but China is better off now than it was having millions starving people.


Today China's economic base was built by Chairman Mao's 5 year plans, not state capitalist Nike sweatshop labour.

Wrong.


Every time there is a labour strike in China (almost always crushed by Chinese fascist government) the workers hold up portraits of Chairman Mao, do you really think he was unpopular?

He was obviously popular in his early days, but that changed once Mao Zedong become obsessed with being Mao Zedong, and ignored his advisors, while going through with policies that lead to the deaths of millions. I think I talk to a lot more Chinese people than you ever will, he is not a well liked person. Everyone knows about the millions of people that starved to death, and no one likes that very idea. Mao was too arrogant and just had to go through with his Great Leap Forward.

[Bolshevika]

This arguement is so absurd. It's simple: Millions of people starved to death thanks to Mao. Sorry, but China is better off now than it was having millions starving people.

You too blame Chairman Mao for the famine? Typical bourgeois lie.

The famine was tragic, however, it was the result of attempting to industrialize China, not "man made famine" like the black book of communism points out.

And what tells you people don't starve in China today? They do. Almost 40 million are unemployed, and in the Dengist state capitalist China you love, unemployment=no health care and no pension. Millions of people live in trash.

The famine under Chairman Mao was understandable, the starvation that goes on in China is unforgivable because of the immense wealth created in that nation.



He was obviously popular in his early days, but that changed once Mao Zedong become obsessed with being Mao Zedong, and ignored his advisors, while going through with policies that lead to the deaths of millions. I think I talk to a lot more Chinese people than you ever will, he is not a well liked person. Everyone knows about the millions of people that starved to death, and no one likes that very idea. Mao was too arrogant and just had to go through with his Great Leap Forward.

Do you even know what the Great Leap Forward was? It was an attempt at making villages self-sufficient.

Chairman Mao did not make all the decisions himself, he was not a "dictator" like your Guomindang mind probably thinks.

Who is to blame for the famine in Africa?

I know many Asians, especially Chinese and Koreans, I live in Flushing, New York (Ask Joon about this place). An elderly female Chinese I know gave me a Mao Zedong watch for my birthday and keeps a huge Chairman Mao portrait over her kitchen.

I know that maybe for you accumalating wealth may be the "best" way to live, but for the native Chinese people, especially the elderly who are disrespected by the westernized young people, they miss the past where they had steady income, health care, pension, community, and lived a life with little to no economic worries.

You are a class enemy Lu. I suggest you watch the PBS propaganda film linked above. Even the bourgeois propagandists admit the nostalgia for the old Socialist days.

[LuZhiming]

You too blame Chairman Mao for the famine? Typical bourgeois lie.

The famine was tragic, however, it was the result of attempting to industrialize China, not "man made famine" like the black book of communism points out.

I was going to recommend you to read up on Chinese history, but considering how crappy English books are on that subject, I won't recommend something so hopeless. Look, famines in China are very common, they have happened so many times, and so many times have ancient administrators, in times of war, came up with ways to work against them, and not lead to the starvation of millions.


And what tells you people don't starve in China today? They do. Almost 40 million are unemployed, and in the Dengist state capitalist China you love, unemployment=no health care and no pension. Millions of people live in trash.

Don't put words in my mouth, read my above posts, they quite agree with that statement. I never said China was great now, just better than it was under Mao.(Or the idiotic Capitalist before him, for that matter.) But 40 million umemployed doesn't mean 40 million starving, most of those people do not even come close to starvation.


Do you even know what the Great Leap Forward was? It was an attempt at making villages self-sufficient.

Yes, and it failed. No one is complaining about making villages self-sufficient, that never happened.


Chairman Mao did not make all the decisions himself, he was not a "dictator" like your Guomindang mind probably thinks.

One could give a perfectly acceptable arguement that he was, but I don't see the point in Mao's case. His advisors had better economic policies than he did, Mao couldn't stand it, and it lead to failure.


I know many Asians, especially Chinese and Koreans, I live in Flushing, New York (Ask Joon about this place). An elderly female Chinese I know gave me a Mao Zedong watch for my birthday and keeps a huge Chairman Mao portrait over her kitchen.

Hahahaha, she probably also has a Guan Yu statue, like most Chinese people do. That really doesn't mean anything. The Guan Yu example, his statues are insanely common among Chinese, much more than Mao, and he was an utter failure! He was arrogant too. It doesn't prove much.


I know that maybe for you accumalating wealth may be the "best" way to live, but for the native Chinese people, especially the elderly who are disrespected by the westernized young people, they miss the past where they had steady income, health care, pension, community, and lived a life with little to no economic worries.

..... Except starvation :rolleyes:

Again: "I know that maybe for you accumalating wealth may be the "best" way to live," stop putting words in my mouth. Laughablly, I have a Fidel Castro avatar.


You are a class enemy Lu. I suggest you watch the PBS propaganda film linked above. Even the bourgeois propagandists admit the nostalgia for the old Socialist days.

Yeah right, go ahead and believe that. We all know how much people absolutely adore starving to death.

[Fidel Castro]

I read an interesting article a few weeks ago about the developing trade relationship between Cuba and China.

[cormacobear]

The growing wealth in China is like all capitalist movements, accumulating at the top and in one or two urban centers. Every time this happens it leads to another revolution. So unless the government can keep a handle on economic equality another Mao will rise, like him or not.

[SonofRage]

Mao himself admitted the failure of the Great Leap Forward and even wrote a self-criticism.

[Anarchist Freedom]

truth be told dude china is more capatilist then any country i gaurentee it.


:che:

[Chewillneverdie]

Mao thought that more people meant a greater country, he also failed to provide for those many people. So in a sense it was his fault, China uses slave labor and dumps waste into Tibet, fuck china