Are Death in June fash?

[Lenina Rosenweg]

Recently I came across a UK based band, Death In June.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_in_June

Their leader,Douglas Pearce, known as Douglas P is openly gay. At least three of the band members are leftists.They deny they are Nazis or fascist in any way.They seem to use Nazi imagery, although this seems to be in an ironic sense.

They are on Youtube. I won't post videos because

1.) I'm lousy at posting videos.
2.) I don't want to post fascist videos.

Their concerts are protested by leftists in Europe and the US.

Anyway, what is it with this band? Are they fascist or dangerously close to fascism?

[Sasha]

I would say they are fascist fetishists... they won't go a full burzum and actually cross into Nazi activism but through their consequent focus on fascist imagery and fascist thinkers like Evola they do make fascism salonfaich in subcultures that are already problematic enough as they are...

[Ostrinski]

I think the genre in general, neofolk, often invokes a lot of fascist/white nationalist/far right themes.

[Yuppie Grinder]

They're National Bolshevists, so yes.
I'm listening to them right now, one of my favorite bands.

[Yuppie Grinder]

I would say they are fascist fetishists... they won't go a full burzum and actually cross into Nazi activism but through their consequent focus on fascist imagery and fascist thinkers like Evola they do make fascism salonfaich in subcultures that are already problematic enough as they are...

Douglas Pearce likes donating money to dodgy far-right paramilitary groups. That's why I don't own any physical releases or t-shirts.

[Workers-Control-Over-Prod]

Recently I came across a UK based band, Death In June.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_in_June

Their leader,Douglas Pearce, known as Douglas P is openly gay. At least three of the band members are leftists.They deny they are Nazis or fascist in any way.They seem to use Nazi imagery, although this seems to be in an ironic sense.

They are on Youtube. I won't post videos because

1.) I'm lousy at posting videos.
2.) I don't want to post fascist videos.

Their concerts are protested by leftists in Europe and the US.

Anyway, what is it with this band? Are they fascist or dangerously close to fascism?

Everyone who's not into Rammstein think they are Nazis because of the imagery. But the band members and lead singer are leftists. I am guessing it's the same with this band.

[Sasha]

Everyone who's not into Rammstein think they are Nazis because of the imagery. But the band members and lead singer are leftists. I am guessing it's the same with this band.


no, death in june are seriously into the whole Julius Evola and other fascist "thinkers" and strasserism and national-"Bolshevism", pearce is a full on reactionary and a selfhating queer.
they are more fascist nihilists than fascist utopian's but yeah, they are proper (but messed up) fascists...

[Fruit of Ulysses]

"At the start of the eighties, Tony and I were involved in radical left politics and beneath it history students. In search of a political view for the future we came across National Bolshevism which is closely connected with the Sturmabteilung hierarchy. People like Gregor Strasser and Ernst Röhm who were later known as 'second revolutionaries' attracted our attention" - Douglass P, from the very wikipedia article you linked

heres the thing though, Pearce probably doesnt see any discrepency between his homosexuality and the fascism they tout because national bolsheviks dont conciously consider themselves to be fascists. National Bolsheviks and National Anarchists live in a weird world where you can listen to Screwdriver while wearing a Che t-shirt and make pagan sacrifices to an Orthodox icon of Stalin.

[Fruit of Ulysses]

they claim to be neither left nor rightist and yet combining elements of both simultaneously, as evidenced through frequently used slogans/concepts such as "the conservative revolution" "radical traditionalism" and "extreme centrism"

[ed miliband]

no, death in june are seriously into the whole Julius Evola and other fascist "thinkers" and strasserism and national-"Bolshevism", pearce is a full on reactionary and a selfhating queer.
they are more fascist nihilists than fascist utopian's but yeah, they are proper (but messed up) fascists...

sounds the opposite of "self hating" here:


Douglas P. is openly gay.,[3] and says that 'being gay is fundamental to Death in June', and express discontent with this side of Death in June not being explored in interviews. He speaks of the lack of coverage of this 'incredulous'. His literary influences include Yukio Mishima and Jean Genet, whom he admires 'not only because their work was brilliant but that they were also gay. It adds so much.'

[Ravachol]

sounds the opposite of "self hating" here:

A prominent gay German neo-nazi, Michael Kuhnen, once wrote a pamphlet praising homosexuality amongst 'national warriors' because it allowed them to fulfill their lusts on each other during war and stay longer on the front or whatever.

I'm also way into neofolk and martial industrial, shame 80% of the bands is really fash.

[hetz]

They're National Bolshevists, so yes.
Now where did you get that from?
Nat.-Bolsh. as a real world thing exists only in Russia/CIS.

[Sasha]

Now where did you get that from?
Nat.-Bolsh. as a real world thing exists only in Russia/CIS.

I think they mean classic national-bolshevism in the line of niekish, junger and radek; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Bolshevism

[Lord Daedra]

I don't think it maters as long as their lyrics don't include "kill the jews" . Music is music and nobody important watches music videos anymore:cool:

[Sasha]

I don't think it maters as long as their lyrics don't include "kill the jews" . Music is music and nobody important watches music videos anymore:cool:

What a stupid position, like said, they make fascism salonfähig in a already tainted scene, esp because they are quite "smart" about it and the fact that they are gay provides an "excuse".
For example, I work in a concert venue and I am regularly confronted by supposedly non-fash wearing death in June merchandise, as someone who lost half his family to the SS i don't really appreciate getting their totenkopf symbol pushed in my face. Maybe even less when its ment "ironic"...

[Ravachol]

Yeah music isn't "just" music, I mean fascist bands and subcultures or whatever aren't the most important thing in the world but it's not 'oh well its just some lads singing a song'.

I mean as I said I'm way into martial industrial/neofolk including death in june, triarii, etc. as well as black metal, I love burzum. But I wouldn't mind smacking them around a bit if I met the assholes.

[Os Cangaceiros]

In regards to homosexuality and Nazism, my impression was that homophobia wasn't that big of a thing in the early Nazi movement in Germany. IIRC Hitler didn't really care about the issue, and Ernst Röhm himself was gay. But Himmler was a huge homophobe and was responsible for pressing the issue after the Nazi purge in 1934.

That could be wrong, though, I'm not an expert on the subject.

[Os Cangaceiros]

I'm not sure how I feel about non-fascists using fascist imagery and such. I mean, I believe that one can appreciate art forms without buying into the ideological trappings of said art...I appreciate Christian art from the Rennaisance, certain pieces of art from the USSR, Futurist art, etc. But on the other hand I think that a lot of fascist art symbolizes troubling aspects of the fascist authoritarian martial tradition. Something which I'm very much opposed to, it should go without saying.

[cynicles]

In regards to homosexuality and Nazism, my impression was that homophobia wasn't that big of a thing in the early Nazi movement in Germany. IIRC Hitler didn't really care about the issue, and Ernst Röhm himself was gay. But Himmler was a huge homophobe and was responsible for pressing the issue after the Nazi purge in 1934.

That could be wrong, though, I'm not an expert on the subject.

I think the issue here is that of idealism and materialism similar to the 'libertarians'. There may continue to be nonhomophobic factions in the fascist movement however fascism in practice always yield hostility towards practices deemed non-normative to the wider fascist movement due to fascism's sexual politics. In this case homosexuality, in other words gay fascists are nothing but deluded wishfull thinkers who will end up in the ovens with everyone else. Just ask the gay commmunity of Greece how fun the fash are.

[NewLeft]

In regards to homosexuality and Nazism, my impression was that homophobia wasn't that big of a thing in the early Nazi movement in Germany. IIRC Hitler didn't really care about the issue, and Ernst Röhm himself was gay. But Himmler was a huge homophobe and was responsible for pressing the issue after the Nazi purge in 1934.

That could be wrong, though, I'm not an expert on the subject.
it seems like there's a significant number of gays who are into far right politics