We need to take action NOW!

[Domela Nieuwenhuis]

I know that most of us here think that the people need to educate themselves.
In most of the less wealthy countries, socialism is much more advanced, but in the richer countries, like Holland, Germany and France, capitalism is the way to go.

Time and again, i've hit a wall of capitalist-symphaties. Noone even wants to consider socialism or communism. They find it genuinly frightning.

We need to take action if we want people to embrace communism!
Not in a few years. RIGHT NOW!

[hetz]

I'll do it tomorrow.

[Art Vandelay]

What exactly are you proposing?

[Rusty Shackleford]

Being frantic and super urgent about it is probably what frightens people. Think of it, people who are not like us ideologically* will see this as preachy and kooky. Think of people with "The end is nigh" sandwich boards praising jesus and damning sinners.

Just, be calm about it. Nothing is going anywhere fast in the west. Meet people, have conversations and all that. But dont tell people what to do, especially if they didnt care to begin with.

Also, even the most advanced and sizable union, party, or affinity group/federation, cannot simply take action and make revolution. Thats not how society works, thats not how people work. If there is no crisis that actually threatens the rule of capital, then there is no way to replace it with something new. Not without it having a terrible social foundation at least.

Im not saying you think this or wact this way, but try at all costs to avoid thinking that people who like liberal democracy and capitalism better than socialism and communism are just idiots or stupid. Most if not all of us were raised in capitalist societies and we all had times when we 'liked' it and so on. But then something happened and our conscience changed. We all had a series of experiences that changed our minds.

Making connections between peoples experiences and the problems of capitalism, and then using examples or theories of post-capitalism to show how they could possibly be different is a good way to go.

But, dont lose energy! Dont get discouraged by apathetic friends or anti-communists. If you set yourself up too much, then you will easily be disappointed.


*That doesnt mean we are better. Im using this as a blanket statement for radical left people.

[TheRedAnarchist23]

Just, be calm about it. Nothing is going anywhere fast in the west.

In just one year the Iberian Peninsula is going to be in the same situation as Greece!

[Rusty Shackleford]

In just one year the Iberian Peninsula is going to be in the same situation as Greece!

If we've learned anything form the Greek situation, its that opportunities come into being and quickly vanish and maybe what we thought was an opportunity may actually have been nothing at all. Be patient i guess. Though, if you are Greek, Spanish, or Portugese(thank you TRA23) maybe some input would be nice on this.

My thoughts on the KKE have changed a bit, though i am not going to share them. I really am in no place to criticize or "support" any particular left organization in Greece right now.

But yes, Southern Europe is moving much faster than the north and north america.


Perhaps im completely wrong though.

[TheRedAnarchist23]

Its all about the crisis. The northern european countries are not suffering from the crisis as much as the southern european countries.

Since 2011, after the victory in the early elections (the former prime minister (PS) resigned) by the PSD, the new prime minister Passos Coelho has been a willing servant of the troika. The troika has taken away almost all our benefits, destroyed our health system, privatized everything. Every day more people get unemployed, the ones who recently graduated from the universities have no jobs, in Spain the unemployment has reached something ridicuous like 25%! Every week there is a demonstration, every month there is a big demonstration. Now the people yell that Passos is a thief, and that Merkel is a nazi (very creative posters with Merkel being compared to Hitler).
In the next year they are going to implement more "reforms", they will take away everything we have left. They will only stop when they see our reaction. We must be stronger, we are already gaining strength, but it is not enough.

[Let's Get Free]

I agree that global capitalism should not continue for one second longer, but unless the majority of workers understand and strive to bring socialism about themselves, we're stuck with capitalism.

[Domela Nieuwenhuis]

Just, be calm about it. Nothing is going anywhere fast in the west. Meet people, have conversations and all that. But dont tell people what to do, especially if they didnt care to begin with.

The wicked west is going nowhere fast!


We all had a series of experiences that changed our minds.

I know, but this crisis should have been an eyeopener, but in stead people tend to cling to the old situation, being capitalism.


Making connections between peoples experiences and the problems of capitalism, and then using examples or theories of post-capitalism to show how they could possibly be different is a good way to go.

I'm lousy in live discussions...


But, dont lose energy! Dont get discouraged by apathetic friends or anti-communists. If you set yourself up too much, then you will easily be disappointed.

It's the apatheticism of everyone i meet...damn capi's...


We don't have enough people so what I gather from your lone post on the subject is that you want people to be recruiting...more or less? It isn't like we all don't try and want this to happen and comrade, you know I love the optimism, but what are we to do to convert people to our cause that we haven't already been doing. I'm not criticizing you I'm just saying that you need to further expand upon what you have in mind for whatever you're suggesting. Meanwhile, I'll actively go and make people into revolutionaries, or at least try really hard and come across as insane. I know, I wish the time was now...but I think we'll be waiting.
I just think the tome is now! What better time than under this crisis? Do we really want the world to get even worse?


I agree that global capitalism should not continue for one second longer, but unless the majority of workers understand and strive to bring socialism about themselves, we're stuck with capitalism.
Dude! It even says so in your signature!

"An ounce of action is worth more than a ton of theory."-Friedrich Engels

[Rusty Shackleford]

The crisis generated fear. Hear in the US, it creating a strong but seemingly short lived ultra-right populist movement. The left was muted because of the victory of Obama (though its not that simple, of course)

The right took to the streets, the right started creating organisations to represent people who were unemployed or being foreclosed upon (though predominantly white people) While the left either recoiled in horror at the growth of such a movement, attacked it and nothing else, or remained complacent with the dems.

Then you have occupy, a wonderful eruption of post 2008 progressive activism. Riddled with ext-tea partyers, libertarians, and zeitgeisters, everyone was given a voice on the principle of ultra democracy, unless the non-official occu-leaders didnt like them. It did some great thing, mobilized hundreds of thousands, and achieved very little. snapped people back into action then fizzled out. I fell like i should have done more while it was still active, but i also had a job. (my own regret about this anyways)

[Myrdin]

I believe the European debt crisis will offer ample opportunity to the young(and old!) revolutionaries out there.

In any case, I agree with my fellow Dutchman. Something must be done immediatly! To the Marxmobile!

[Yet_Another_Boring_Marxist]

Yep, I live in the US and I agree with the above ^

We need to start doing shit. All else is irrelevant.

What the left needs to understand is that there is no leftism without action. Lenin said "There is no revolutionary movement without theory" and yet on the otherhand, as Mao postulated in his seminal On Theory and Practice, the very act of theorizing requires a dialectical materialist outlook that requires empiricism as a prior, or in short, if we are going to accept that the mind flows from matter, then we must accept we can only start theorizing once we go out and start practicing.

Almost every minute of here is spent on theoretical debates, and yet all of these debates are worthless. What we really need to do is to retool this website into a forum to discuss practice, and from the experiences that we gather, formulate our observations into theories.

[Tim Cornelis]

"We need to do something, now."

Well clearly. What I miss in my organisation is organising. Essentially, loads of organising for ourselves, but rarely externally-oriented. When organising demonstrations, it is as if we expect people to come to us themselves. But when you see a bunch of anarchists march on may first, there is no reason to join them. Why would they? How are we relevant to them? We aren't. We have nice ideals, but in what way would people benefit from joining? Currently, we are an organisation of "professional activists". That wont get us anywhere.

Workplace organising is essential. Tying individual struggles to class struggles is essential. It is difficult to get a foothold in, but this is what needs to be done.

Additionally, I think we need a dynamic and resilient "occupy-movement" of non-Stalinist revolutionary leftists that organises in workplaces (somehow). I already stressed that here (http://www.revleft.com/vb/int-organization-participatory-t177075/index.html?p=2549881), but as expected there is little enthusiasm for it--unfortunately. United we can exert more influence in society.

[Workers-Control-Over-Prod]

In the next year they are going to implement more "reforms", they will take away everything we have left. They will only stop when they see our reaction. We must be stronger, we are already gaining strength, but it is not enough.


You see, these are the situations that make left organizations grow. But to fruitfully capitalize on these revolutionary situations, we have to have a non-sectarian (unlike KKE...) mass communist party.

[piet11111]

Being determines consciousness and marx was not exaggerating.
when people think they are doing well and will continue to do so for the foreseeable future they wont be receptive for anything that might throw that (perceived) security away.

[Thelonious]

If there is no crisis that actually threatens the rule of capital, then there is no way to replace it with something new.This is true.

And more specifically:
As long as the average American still has their I-pods, I-phones, Suv's, and Facebook, nothing will happen. When the truly ugly side of capitalism starts to effect the upper-middle class, then we will see the masses start to get angry at the system. Apple I-pods and I-phones are the opiates of the American people.

[Domela Nieuwenhuis]

This is true.

And more specifically:
As long as the average American still has their I-pods, I-phones, Suv's, and Facebook, nothing will happen. When the truly ugly side of capitalism starts to effect the upper-middle class, then we will see the masses start to get angry at the system. Apple I-pods and I-phones are the opiates of the American people.

So i say: Bombard humanity with images and stories of capitalisms ugly face!
Post pictures of people starving everywhere! Spam documentaries of chem-spills in Africa! Do something! Let the world know that all we see is the sugarcoated topping. People don't want to see that the world is rotting, we have to make 'em look!

[Thelonious]

So i say: Bombard humanity with images and stories of capitalisms ugly face!
Post pictures of people starving everywhere! Spam documentaries of chem-spills in Africa! Do something! Let the world know that all we see is the sugarcoated topping. People don't want to see that the world is rotting, we have to make 'em look!

I wholeheartedly agree. But you are preaching to the converted here at Revleft. There is nothing wrong with that but the message has to get out to the masses.

[Domela Nieuwenhuis]

I wholeheartedly agree. But you are preaching to the converted here at Revleft. There is nothing wrong with that but the message has to get out to the masses.

Then help me to get it out! Let's do something for "gods"sake

[Fnord]

So i say: Bombard humanity with images and stories of capitalisms ugly face!
Post pictures of people starving everywhere! Spam documentaries of chem-spills in Africa! Do something! Let the world know that all we see is the sugarcoated topping. People don't want to see that the world is rotting, we have to make 'em look!

Unfortunately, this is apart of the problem. You would be very much surprised to see the masses of people who already so all too well how the world is rotting, the majority of such people have no escape from that fact, and all of it's consequences haunt them. They feel they have no escape and for a variety of reasons, it would be easier and less painful to destroy themselves in what ever form that may take (suicide, drug addictions, self mutilation, etc.) Than to attempt to end capitalism, let alone group together to do so if they have access to such groups which may mean prolonging their suffering in the meantime while here on Earth. Do I even have to mention the often present social conditioning and increasing depression among these individuals you are trying to convince. If you want to convince politicians, activists, or upper middle class petty bourgeois, then by all means do what you are saying.
If you or anyone else wants to convince the masses, we need to give people a reason to go on living within this capitalism in order to destroy it, something that everyone can access and can quickly branch out to inform people while allowing people to communicate who feel similarly so we can plan direct action.