Technocracy

[Umoja]

I'm pretty new to the concept of Technocracy (I got it from politicsforum.org). It's a largely North American concept from what I understand, and it's not similar to any other economic system. It basically deals with how we create an artificial shortage in the market, when we already have a near limitless abundance for our population. It also says that technology has reached a point of near complete automation, where people don't really require themselves to do virtually any labor.

The currency system is what really interest me. People are given a certain amount of "energy credits" which are created so that people can "buy" things, but the amount is set by what the government thinks people should need. This is then adjusted the next credit allocation period based on what people buy. Et cetera.

Anyone else ever encountered this idealogy?

[ComradeRed]

IT's called modernism, it's the idea that technology will be the savior of mankind, replicating food/water, thus ending hunger/thirst, etc.

[redstar2000]

It actually goes back to the 1930s...and suggests that "engineers" should run society since they are "competent" while politicians, generals, businessmen, as well as the masses in general are stupid and incompetent.

That certainly appeared to make a good deal of sense in the 1930s. (!)

I believe they are "right wing" in sentiment--I think they were loosely associated with overtly right-wing groups in the U.S. during the 1930s.

After the economic boom began in the run-up to World War II, they faded from public view.

I had no idea they were still around...but it seems that much of the internet is a kind of graveyard for old theories. :lol:

:redstar2000:

The Redstar2000 Papers (http://www.redstar2000papers.fightcapitalism.net)
A site about communist ideas

[Umoja]

The way they made it seem is that they aren't any other system, which is why they have trouble gaining supporters. With what I read, they're complicated. Especially since you really don't need people to cordinate how much the machines work.... more like meta-coordinators for the coordinating machines.

[apathy maybe]

I read a book about this. I can't remember what it's called or who's it by but :(
It had something to do with airstrips? No, airplanes anyway. I think it was by H.G. Wells, supposed to be a prediction of the future by some guy Wells knew. The first few decades (from 1930's through 1950's) where close (predicting the World War (how hard you say)), but it sort of just got worse. It was a good read though.

[suffianr]

It basically deals with how we create an artificial shortage in the market, when we already have a near limitless abundance for our population.

It's already here. Advertising agencies engineer consumer demand for things that we don't need and wouldn't buy if we didn't feel bad about ourselves after watching television commercials.

Skin-whitening cream is high up on this list when it comes to the demographic group of Asian women.

Why? I don't know. Personally, I love that tanned healthy glow on women.

The point is, the artificial shortage isn't the cream, it's the mindset, the implanted desire for women to look whiter, to transcend. And tanned skin is in "near limitless abundance' in Asia. Go figure.

[DaCuBaN]

This ideology may well be dead, but no more than communism is in the US. If you want to read something with some substance, please follow the link in my sig - I don't know of the origins of the ideals, but I can't see where the 'Right Wing' aspects of it come in... No private land, no money, democracy... this seems like a GOOD THING to me ;)

[Elect Marx]

Originally posted by [email protected] 8 2004, 10:28 PM
This ideology may well be dead, but no more than communism is in the US. If you want to read something with some substance, please follow the link in my sig - I don't know of the origins of the ideals, but I can't see where the 'Right Wing' aspects of it come in... No private land, no money, democracy... this seems like a GOOD THING to me ;)
It's not really the goal that bothers me; it is the pursiut. If anything went wrong (it would with the structure of current societies) and the process was "perfected," we would have a sort of mechano-fascism with a technological ruling class...

[DaCuBaN]

The idea that technocracy is mankind being ruled by machines is a fallacy - that is, it's bollocks. It's simply looking for a technological solution to an economic problem and doesn't actually cover politics. Whether the system is despotic, democratic or whatever is of no relevence to it.

[redstar2000]

5.2.5 How are positions attained in this organization?

Positions are filled based on the proven method of nomination from below and appointment from above. For example, if a position were vacated for whatever reason, then the people immediately below that position would nominate candidates from among their ranks for the position. Then, the managers from the rank above the position would choose from those candidates the person most qualified for the job. This is the method that is most often used in the technical portions of present organizations, and is based on competence. Competence of the person is determined by the consistent operation of the technology involved. If such machinery should fail to operate within acceptable parameters, then the person responsible would be quickly removed and replaced with someone who could perform the job adequately.

The only exception to this is the position of Continental Director, only because there is no one higher. This position is selected from the members of the Continental Control by the Continental Control, for it is they who best know who among them is most capable of handling the job.

http://www.technocracy.ca/simp/Technocracy_FAQ_1.x.htm#5.0

Technocracy has been definied as "rule by technicians"...and this quote shows how it will be done.

Keep in mind that if you are not a technician, you have no role in the decision-making process at all.

You must depend on the "good will" of a very small number of people to "do the right thing".

Want to bet on that one again?

:redstar2000:

The Redstar2000 Papers (http://www.redstar2000papers.fightcapitalism.net)
A site about communist ideas

[DaCuBaN]

if you are not a technician, you have no role in the decision-making process

In the system of soviets, is the same not the case? If you have no relation to the industry/ministry involved then you have no direct say in what goes on, of who runs that particular 'sequence' as the technocrats call it.

As to the somewhat authoritarian outlook it seems to take, I don't think this necessarily has to be the case: Rather than using the promotion method borrowed from the business model, we could take a demarchic approach: Given that this is envisaging a highly technologically advanced society it is highly probably that copious amounts of information would be held for each citizen: Qualifications for example. It would be a very simple matter to build a computer model that generates a list of all possible candidates, and when the time comes for the next 'election' these are distributed over the information network whereupon those who cared could vote accordingly, or could be even automatically nominated (dependant on how much 'trust' you put into computers)

That said, if you take everything on paper at purely face value, you will be able to poke holes in practically everything.

What interested me most about the idea was it's approach to economics:

http://www.technocracy.ca/simp/Technocracy_FAQ_1.x.htm#5.3.3


Energy Accounting is a method of Distribution based on the only measurable factor common to all products and services, and that is Energy. In an Energy Accounting system, all the energy used in the production, conversion, and transportation of goods and services would be accurately accounted for. This would be done by the relevant personnel in each Functional Sequence.
Primarily, Energy Accounting provides the accurate measurement of consumption, as well as production. This would be done with a device relevant to the available technology of the time. Technocracy's first proposed device was called the Energy Certificate. It would be distributed to all citizens and have the features of both a blank cheque and a traveller's cheque. It would be a document that would identify the user, with spaces to record information concerning the purchase, including what was purchased, the time and date, and what distribution center it was purchased from. This information would be immediately tabulated and sent to the Distribution Sequence , which could then use the information to determine what products were needed and where. Today, it is more likely that some sort of smart-card would be used. It could contain a microchip that could record all the relevant information, and also make the card far more difficult to tamper with.
What this would allow is for the Continental Control to know exactly how much of what items are being consumed and where. This information would allow production to be geared to consumption, and that the appropriate amounts of goods be delivered to the areas where they are desired. Since the energy it takes to produce and transport an item does not change, cost of items, measured in terms of energy, would not fluctuate, except in cases where a more efficient method of production was discovered, in which case the cost would only go down

[Elect Marx]

Originally posted by [email protected] 10 2004, 09:09 PM
The idea that technocracy is mankind being ruled by machines is a fallacy - that is, it's bollocks. It's simply looking for a technological solution to an economic problem and doesn't actually cover politics. Whether the system is despotic, democratic or whatever is of no relevence to it.
Economics is a system of ruling and is political.
The economic problem is capitalism, which can't be solved through technology alone.

[DaCuBaN]

Economics is a system of ruling and is political

...no it isn't...

Economics is the social science that deals with the production, distribution, and consumption of goods and services and with the theory and management of economies or economic systems

A system of ruling would be a republic, a monarchy, a democracy and so on.


The economic problem is capitalism, which can't be solved through technology alone

Are you drunk? Technocracy is not about solving mankinds problems through technlogy - it's acceptance of the fact that we don't need to work as much as we used to because we are developing technology to replace our labour. It's an economical theory.