US Beyond Reproach

[Jason]

http://news.yahoo.com/gangnam-style-singer-psy-apologizes-past-anti-u-180233260--spt.html

Do some in the US right wing feel anything the US does cannot be criticized?

Does the "Gagnam Style" singer have anything to aplogize for (unless you happen to dislike the song on musical grounds)? :rolleyes:

[prolcon]

What your criticism of the US makes of you is different depending on who you are. If you're a liberal or further left and you criticize the US government, you're a jobless hippie. If you don't live in the US and you criticize the US government, you're a terrorist. If you're a conservative and you criticize the US government, you're a patriot.

[hetz]

Criticising the US is one thing, talking about killing wives and daughters-in-law is pathology.

[prolcon]

Sure, the language he used was bloodthirsty and pretty twisted, but I doubt I can blame him for being sucked into that kind of rage.

[Jason]

Americans know nothing of South Korea (most of them), or have a 1960s view of the place. Those that take the backward view have no respect for any South Korean criticism. I think it boils down to racism, even though it's a cliche. Whether it's Mubarak's Egypt or the Shah's Iran, the Fox News crowd is happy with subserviant leaders and populations. As if that's a any new news. :(

[Crux]

I think it's an hyperbolic statement, but completely understandable. Also I do think saying something in a song is a bit different than saying it as an official statement etc.

[hetz]

How the fuck is that "completely understandable"? Only if you're a sociopath.
Again, this is what he said:
"Kill those fucing Yankees who have been torturing Iraqi captives; Kill those fucking Yankees who ordered them to torture; Kill their daughters, mothers, daughters-in-law and fathers; Kill them all slowly and painfully."

[Avanti]

How the fuck is that "completely understandable"? Only if you're a sociopath.
Again, this is what he said:
"Kill those fucing Yankees who have been torturing Iraqi captives; Kill those fucking Yankees who ordered them to torture; Kill their daughters, mothers, daughters-in-law and fathers; Kill them all slowly and painfully."

if you want

to love

you need

to want

to hate

[hetz]

That, and maple syrup.

[Crux]

How the fuck is that "completely understandable"? Only if you're a sociopath.
Again, this is what he said:
"Kill those fucing Yankees who have been torturing Iraqi captives; Kill those fucking Yankees who ordered them to torture; Kill their daughters, mothers, daughters-in-law and fathers; Kill them all slowly and painfully."
In a song. I listen to music with far more brutal lyrics than that.

[Jimmie Higgins]

How the fuck is that "completely understandable"? Only if you're a sociopath.
Again, this is what he said:
"Kill those fucing Yankees who have been torturing Iraqi captives; Kill those fucking Yankees who ordered them to torture; Kill their daughters, mothers, daughters-in-law and fathers; Kill them all slowly and painfully."

Sociopaths wouldn't feel moral outrage in responce to injustice or abuse.

Why would people feel more shocked about the part in the above lyric that isn't happening than about the non-bold part that actually happened: "torturing Iraqi captives"?

[hetz]

In a song. I listen to music with far more brutal lyrics than that.
I can find you Nazi music with lyrics less brutal than that, what's your point anyway?


Sociopaths wouldn't feel moral outrage in responce to injustice or abuse.
Not really. INB4 Godwin's law.


Why would people feel more shocked about the part in the above lyric that isn't happening than about the non-bold part that actually happened: "torturing Iraqi captives"?
That was news in 2003.
It stopped being shocking long ago.
I'm not saying anyone will remember this in a month or two, but still, it's disgusting to find that sadistic rant "understandable".

[Crux]

That was news in 2003.
It stopped being shocking long ago.
And the lyrics are from 2004.
Also keep in mind all we've got is a translated line of lyrics ripped out of context. Spare me your moral outrage.
My point? This is a great song. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SxZvEij0Vis)

[hetz]

Yeah but we didn't know about it until a few days ago, because no one knew about Psy before Gangam style came out.

[Crux]

Yeah but we didn't know about it until a few days ago, because no one knew about Psy before Gangam style came out.
Except, maybe, koreans. Yeah, I agree this nonsense isn't news.

[Ethics Gradient, Traitor For All Ages]

I still find torture to be pretty shocking. I'm suspicious of anyone who doesn't.

[Crux]

I still find torture to be pretty shocking. I'm suspicious of anyone who doesn't.
No, man, that's so 2003. I am more outraged by song lyrics. Outraged, I tell you.

[Jimmie Higgins]

I can find you Nazi music with lyrics less brutal than that, what's your point anyway?That people can listen and enjoy the song "Kill the Landlord" while realizing it's just a song; that people can listen to "Fuck the Police" without literally thinking NWA conducted a vigilante people's trial of cops and exaccuted some of them.


Not really. INB4 Godwin's law.So sociopaths do feel moral outrage about the abse of others... that would seem to contradict the definition of a sociopath as someone who doesn't care about the feelings or well-being of others.


That was news in 2003.
It stopped being shocking long ago.

Oh yeah because there's no war under Obama and Gitmo was closed... wait a minute!

[Devrim]

I still find torture to be pretty shocking. I'm suspicious of anyone who doesn't.

Torture is pretty terrible. I personally though think that a state that has a policy of actually torturing people throughout the world is slightly more reprehensible than obscure pop start shooting off his mouth.

Devrim

[hetz]

How is American soldiers torturing POWs "shocking" when it happened in every war they've been to?
Chernobyl was shocking in 1986, it isn't shocking anymore.


I personally though think that a state that has a policy of actually torturing people throughout the world is slightly more reprehensible than obscure pop start shooting off his mouth.Well of course it's more reprehensible, one is a violent rant and the other actually happens. Reprehensible but not that shocking, unless you don't read the news.

[Crux]

How is American soldiers torturing POWs "shocking" when it happened in every war they've been to?
Chernobyl was shocking in 1986, it isn't shocking anymore.

Well of course it's more reprehensible, one is a violent rant and the other actually happens. Reprehensible but not that shocking, unless you don't read the news.
so 10 years is long enough to make torture of iraqi prisoners "meh" but lyrics to a song from 2004 you just found out about makes Psy a sociopath? I don't think I need to add anything more, you seem to be digging yourself down a hole quite well on your own.

[hetz]

so 10 years is long enough to make torture of iraqi prisoners "meh" but lyrics to a song from 2004 you just found out about makes Psy a sociopath?I never even implied anything like that. Something's wrong with your logic.
If I recall people here were banned for "completely understanding" the WW2 Red Army rapes in Germany, something I understand completely ( the bans, that is ).

All I'm saying is that it's pathological that someone would rap about killing some Yankees' mothers and daughters-in-law. There's nothing "understandable" about that.

[Crux]

Again, for the third time, it's quite a difference between saying something in a song and saying something in an official statement.

[Jimmie Higgins]

While people get all worked up over a bit of obviously hyperbolic moral indignation in song-form, the US mainstream is heaping praise on the "realism" of "Zero Dark Thrirty" which has a scene in which waterboarding is used to sucessfully lead to finding Bin Lauden. The movie's selling point is it's realism and how they got the inside story from the Administration - but this turning point in the plot is pure made-up propaganda in favor of, and retroactivly justifying the use of, torture. Acadamey Award favorite!

[A Revolutionary Tool]

How much money you all want to bet that Psy was pressured by somebody to apologize because it would be controversial for the president to be anywhere near someone who said something like he did?

[Crux]

How much money you all want to bet that Psy was pressured by somebody to apologize because it would be controversial for the president to be anywhere near someone who said something like he did?
All of them, but I can't imagine anyone would take me up on that.

[Luís Henrique]

Sociopaths wouldn't feel moral outrage in responce to injustice or abuse.

Why would people feel more shocked about the part in the above lyric that isn't happening than about the non-bold part that actually happened: "torturing Iraqi captives"?

This thread should be read in conjunction with the "Stalin was a rape apologist" thread. An enlightening experience.

Luís Henrique