Vandalism under Socialism

[Victoria Shmakova]

How exactly will this be handled? There technically isn't private property, but what about personal property? And what about vandalism against communal property?
How was hooliganism handled in the Soviet Union?

[Aussie Trotskyist]

You're not a true vandal until you sack Rome. :thumbup1:

But seriously, I don't know. I'd imagine that if someones personal property was damaged intentionally, the culprit would receive the full force of a boot in the arse.

[prolcon]

I'm pretty sure we'll collectively decide to protect property on a personal level. It harms us all if we can all just go into each others' bathrooms and fuck with everyone's toothbrushes.

[Lowtech]

the annoying pop psychology response would be that without the pent up anger brought about from being subjected directly or indirectly by artificial scarcity (concentration of wealth, selling above production cost, underpaying of workers, poverty), such behavior would be in the decline. happier more productive society means a less violent one.

[hetz]

There would probably be much less vandalism.
But you will get the shit kicked out of you for such behaviour.

How was hooliganism handled in the Soviet Union? It was a criminal offense.

[Yuppie Grinder]

Graffiti is cool. Street Art is the bomb. I wouldn't mind if a bunch of ignant teenagers made a mural out of the side of my house as long as it was good.

[hetz]

When people talk about vandalism they usually refer to breaking public benches, lamplights, setting things on fire and other such pointless destruction.


Graffiti is cool.
99% of all the scribblings on the streets are shit.

[Yuppie Grinder]

When people talk about vandalism they usually refer to breaking public benches, lamplights, setting things on fire and other such pointless destruction.


99% of all the scribblings on the streets are shit.

nope i disagree
even those scribblings look better then just blank, colorless walls

[Jimmie Higgins]

the annoying pop psychology response would be that without the pent up anger brought about from being subjected directly or indirectly by artificial scarcity (concentration of wealth, selling above production cost, underpaying of workers, poverty), such behavior would be in the decline. happier more productive society means a less violent one.

Yeah a degree of this in today's society is a result of feeling alientated from the cities we live in. We are surrounded by things we are not allowed to use and have no control over and cultures which are atomized and induvidualized - so striking out and fucking some of that up is one way this frustration manifests, marking your name (literally or figurativly) is another.

But I think there'd still be a level of hooligan type behavior - especially as young people grow and want to test boundaries or people getting drunk and playfully making a mess of things. I think people would handle this mainly through shame in a fully developed communist society. People would probably know their neighbors a lot more - if only just as a consaquence of a much more particapatory mode of organizing our schools and communities and workplaces. So even in urban settings, I'd imagine that it would be like, "well it's that guy up the street who gets drunk and wild". If it got really bad, then perhapse people could get together and hold a vote to make him move out - like that awful roomate in a big shared house. They'd wise up and moderate after being asked to move - or find appropriate outlets, or find a community of like-minded people who like to live wild.

This is pure speculation though, but I think from lots of examples of life in smaller communities with little social differentiation, people have generally been able to handle these sorts of problems on a community level.

Urban capitalist life is a barrier to this because we are all split up, live rather anonomously most of the time, are falling over eachother looking for jobs and hosuing or just in daily commutes. And generally because there's nothing we can really do about it. In families, they try and deal with this, but then other than that, there's not much a community can do other than call the police on someone and that won't have any positive effect.

[Rugged Collectivist]

I assume you mean graffiti and such? I don't see why anything should be done. Since most buildings will be public property I don't see a problem with people painting on them. If you don't like what they paint, paint over it!

If people randomly go around breaking shit (Which, let's be honest, doesn't happen all that often) I assume the damage would be repaired and the perpetrators would be dealt with by the community in a trial of sorts.

[Avanti]

How exactly will this be handled? There technically isn't private property, but what about personal property? And what about vandalism against communal property?
How was hooliganism handled in the Soviet Union?

talking about this

as a former serial vandal

i've come to the conclusion

that vandalism

will not

exist

under communism

because

there will be

no concept

of

aesthetic

functionality

in short

everything

will be seen

as an evolutionary flow

therefore

vandalism

is an act

of evolution

i think

that actually

would be

somewhat boring

as the point

of vandalism

is to rub

shit

in the face

of society

vandalism

in a communist

society

would be

to put

"Jesus loves you"

bumper stickers

on the back

of your car

for example

[Aussie Trotskyist]

Graffiti is cool. Street Art is the bomb. I wouldn't mind if a bunch of ignant teenagers made a mural out of the side of my house as long as it was good.

There is a difference between vandalism and graffiti art.

Graffiti art should be supported for its artistic value, vandalism should be discouraged and punished.

[Yuppie Grinder]

There is a difference between vandalism and graffiti art.

Graffiti art should be supported for its artistic value, vandalism should be discouraged and punished.

Arbitrary, meaningless distinction. You don't understand what art is.

[Zukunftsmusik]

There is a difference between vandalism and graffiti art.

Graffiti art should be supported for its artistic value, vandalism should be discouraged and punished.

lol, "artistic value". You can't possibly draw a clear cut line between "art" and what you call "vandalism"

[GoddessCleoLover]

Hooliganism is the USSR was a criminal offense punishable by a prison sentence.

Under a DotP vandalism would be punished since destruction property belonging to the workers' state is an offense against all workers. I would hope that the punishments would be humane and proportionate.

[Will Scarlet]

There is a difference between vandalism and graffiti art.

Graffiti art should be supported for its artistic value, vandalism should be discouraged and punished.
The difference between what gets called vandalism or graffiti art is what is sanctioned and allowed, it has nothing to do with artistic value. It has to do with property.

[Yuppie Grinder]

Hooliganism is the USSR was a criminal offense punishable by a prison sentence.

Under a DotP vandalism would be punished since destruction property belonging to the workers' state is an offense against all workers. I would hope that the punishments would be humane and proportionate.

State-owned property would be scarce, ideally.
Anyways, the existence of any concept of graffiti implies exclusive ownership. Communism for me means getting to paint crazy murals all over the place.

[Anarchocommunaltoad]

State-owned property would be scarce, ideally.
Anyways, the existence of any concept of graffiti implies exclusive ownership. Communism for me means getting to paint crazy murals all over the place.

Most of those "murals" will be composed exclusively of penises.

[Yuppie Grinder]

nah i think people normally get bored of making excessive amounts of those around age 14

[Let's Get Free]

In socialism, vandalism will be a crime punishable by death.

[GoddessCleoLover]

Not just any death, but worked to death in the mines of Kolyma.:rolleyes:

[Sinister Cultural Marxist]

I really don't think vandalism of economic property would be that big of a deal, but vandalism of both personal property and historical heritage would need to be strongly discouraged, and communities enforcing rules against it seems acceptable. There is no need to trash people's collective heritage like the Taj Mahal or the Parthenon. That said, the best prevention would be education.

[Grenzer]

Not just that, before you die of hunger and overwork, then you get to be brought to the lab and be a test subject for newly developed toxins for use against the enemies of socialism™.

Such is life in the Third World Caesarian Republic of the Manhattan Commune.

[Will Scarlet]

Hooliganism is the USSR was a criminal offense punishable by a prison sentence.

Under a DotP vandalism would be punished since destruction property belonging to the workers' state is an offense against all workers. I would hope that the punishments would be humane and proportionate.
Define property destruction. If you paint on a wall it doesn't fall down, it still fulfils all of its functions as a wall. If you're talking about smashing windows or whatever for no reason than yeah, fine.

I want to read about the history of street art in the Soviet Union now. I'm sure there is some.

[GoddessCleoLover]

Wrong GB...it will be called the Third World Caesarian Social Proletcrat Republic of the Workers' Volkshalle of Germania.

[Anarchocommunaltoad]

In socialism, vandalism will be a crime punishable by death.

As shall be littering and the unholy abomination that is jaywalking

[Grenzer]

I want to read about the history of street art in the Soviet Union now. I'm sure there is some.

I don't know of anything like that but I do have a history of booze in the Soviet Union. Almost as good, surely.

[Igor]

nah i think people normally get bored of making excessive amounts of those around age 14

join the army and be amazed

[Brosa Luxemburg]

nope i disagree
even those scribblings look better then just blank, colorless walls

Their better than a brand logo.

[Geiseric]

You're not a true vandal until you sack Rome. :thumbup1:

But seriously, I don't know. I'd imagine that if someones personal property was damaged intentionally, the culprit would receive the full force of a boot in the arse.

Hail Stilicho, the true emperor! Is vandalism a huge problem now? It probably is because there are poor, bored, jobless, educationless youth running amok, constantly intoxicated, due to the failure of society to socialize them. Those conditions would be drastically different if we had a socialist society.

[Brosa Luxemburg]

Hail Stilicho, the true emperor! Is vandalism a huge problem now? It probably is because there are poor, bored, jobless, educationless youth running amok, constantly intoxicated, due to the failure of society to socialize them. Those conditions would be drastically different if we had a socialist society.

Okay grandpa ;)

[Anarchocommunaltoad]

Hail Stilicho, the true emperor! Is vandalism a huge problem now? It probably is because there are poor, bored, jobless, educationless youth running amok, constantly intoxicated, due to the failure of society to socialize them. Those conditions would be drastically different if we had a socialist society.

In my estimation, petty bourgeois skater kids are the major source of vandalism in the US (ghettos were fucked up to begin with)

[Yet_Another_Boring_Marxist]

Well, during the cultural revolution graffiti was considered a valid form of political protest.

[Yuppie Grinder]

Well, during the cultural revolution graffiti was considered a valid form of political protest.

well if mao says its ok i'm cool with it cuz ya kno hes the authority on all things artistic
especially since for more than a decade the only book published in china was the quotations of mao tse tung

[Anarchocommunaltoad]

Well, during the cultural revolution graffiti was considered a valid form of political protest.

Pictures of dicks and "tony wuz here" is NOT a valid form of protest.

[GoddessCleoLover]

I know about Big-Character Wall Posters in the PRC but back when I read Bill Hinton's books I don't recall him mentioning graffiti.:confused:

[Rugged Collectivist]

Most of those "murals" will be composed exclusively of penises.

Is that a problem? Pompeii was covered in penises and it managed to function just fine until the volcano erupted.

[Anarchocommunaltoad]

Is that a problem? Pompeii was covered in penises and it managed to function just fine until the volcano erupted.

Why would want to constantly see penises as you commute to and fro?

[Yuppie Grinder]

penises are pretty cool and artistic tbh
ever dreamed the sun had a phallus?

[Lowtech]

Arbitrary, meaningless distinction. You don't understand what art is.

Why do you bother posting obvious discrimination of urban culture? I know its the internet, haven for scoundrels and the uneducated, but seriously?

[Yuppie Grinder]

Why do you bother posting obvious discrimination of urban culture? I know its the internet, haven for scoundrels and the uneducated, but seriously?

Nice reading comprehension, buddy. I like street art.