The Revolution!

[ComradeRed]

We all probably say "when the revolution comes/happens ...", but WHEN is it coming? Will it be violent or non violent? Where will we begin?

[SonofRage]

Dude, it was yesterday. You missed it. You gotta start checking your email. :D

[ComradeRed]

Oh shoot, not again...

[Kez]

hee hee.

Well, capitalism is in crisis now,
and this is the first signal that we should be ready.
We can see that it is in crisis now if we look at the stock markets of the past 2-3 years now, and how they are dropping significantly. (it would be very helpful if someone found a graph of this to illustrate the point)
Look at the individual businesses how they are going bankrupt or making redundancies eg British Airways making 30,000 redundancies recently.
Another thing we see with this crisis is the strengthening of unions again, and the moves to the left they have been making eg Tony Woodley kicking out Sir Ken Jackson (bumchum of Blair) in the union.


How should we be ready?
We should be wherever the workers are.
This means that we should be in the unions, the student unions, and the parties with the mass workers are.
These are the traditional vehicle the workers turn to in times of crisis, and we must be there to show them what is happening, what is causing it, and what the solution should be.
In the trade unions we put up candidates for election, using the unions we radicalise the workers, and move them left
In the parties with mass workers base, we see the radicalisation of the members, and this is reflected in the parliament. In britain this is a double whammy, as radicalisation of the unions has a direct effect on the Labour Party. (See: New Pension reform, which is still tiny pittance crumb of a reform, but these are early days)
In a sentence, we should be wherever the workers are to explain, agitate, and organise. (See: huge increase in number of strikes).

My personal prediction is 10 years, if its not there in 10 years, then i think we gotta wait another 20 or so after that until the next time capitalism is in crisis.

If you have any questions, or want more advice, or wanna help, then just PM me

[BOZG]

Well its going to be on the 24th July, 2018 at 3.45pm. For fucks sake, what an absolutely ridiculous post to make. No one knows when or what type of revolution will occur. Consciousness can advance just as quickly as it can decline. A revolution will happen when it's ready, not when anyone decides, revolutions are spontaneous. They happen when certain conditions exist and we will never know when these conditions will exist so don't be fucking stupid enough to think that we can actually pinpoint when a revolution could happen or how it will progress.

[Al Creed]

Sorry, I can&#39;t make it that day, BOZG, I have a Mamorgam appointment sceduled <_<

Really, to ask something like "When is the Revolution coming?" is a waste of creative energy. None of us are Promethius, we don&#39;t possess the power of forsight.

It will happen when it happens. It&#39;s all about timing, dude. In the meantime, do what you can, to fight the Evil, as you define it. I do my part, with my cartoons.

[BOZG]

In the meantime, do what you can, to fight the Evil, as you define it.

Exactly, don&#39;t sit back and wait for the revolution to come. Spend every minute preparing yourself, by learning more and more about what&#39;s relevant to society, keep advancing your consciousness further and further and in the process try to help other people advance their consciousness to prepare for that unknown moment. Maybe at that moment, everything you thought you knew will be blown out of the water but it&#39;s better to do something, than nothing. To be cliched "Carpe Diem"

[Kez]

at the end of the day, its in our hands, depends how much we piss about talking about communist communes on an island, or if we actually agitate to liberate the workers of the world...

[ComradeRobertRiley]

The workers of the world have to want it, I worked at a place where the staff just put up with being treated like shit and wasnt prepared to stand up against the people in charge, I did and got fired for it.

[Kez]

im sorry to hear that riley.

i give u advice as a comrade, you should have got the whole work force to make a stance, remember the boss needs us. look at postal workers strike, that was pure mass workers action, not heroism of one person

i hope u get another job soon

[Bad Grrrl Agro]

I hope this revoution goes gandhi style I&#39;d prefer it


one big mas walkout of school and work

[ComradeRobertRiley]

Originally posted by [email protected] 4 2004, 01:07 AM
im sorry to hear that riley.

i give u advice as a comrade, you should have got the whole work force to make a stance, remember the boss needs us. look at postal workers strike, that was pure mass workers action, not heroism of one person

i hope u get another job soon
I tried but they werent prepared to, I want going to put up with being treated like shit so they fired me

[Bad Grrrl Agro]

sorry to hear that
well keep on fighting and dont give up
-petey

[Bad Grrrl Agro]

An organizer in chicago, John Donahue, recently passed away. but the last thing he said to me was keep on organising and thats what I&#39;m saying to you now. :hammer:

[ComradeRobertRiley]

Thanks.


Although in many post I say that violence is the only way to get communism in the UK, which I do believe.

I still think that we need to educate as well.

Primary - Violence

Secondary - Education

[Bad Grrrl Agro]

well I still dissagree
if youeducate agitate then organise
start a general strike and there you go, a bloodless revolution.
and joseph hilstrum aka joe hill would be so proud

[MiDnIgHtMaRaUdEr]

The revolution will happens as soon as the backseat driver stops telling us are we there yet? and picks up a gun and starts revolutionizing. Stop expecting everyone to do things for you. Someone else isnt just going to start up a revolution for you. You need to take up arms and start somewhere. Stop looking to us and provide an example.

[Kez]

Originally posted by [email protected] 4 2004, 12:53 AM
well I still dissagree
if youeducate agitate then organise
start a general strike and there you go, a bloodless revolution.
and joseph hilstrum aka joe hill would be so proud
and you expect the bourgeoise to just give up without a fight?

[FistFullOfSteel]

they gonna have the military force on their side

[Maynard]

WHEN is it coming?

There is no way to predict this. When it will happen, how it will happen and where it happen is all a basis of pure speculation at this moment in time. I can understand the anxiety of everyone here but no matter how impatient we are, we must never be discouraged from the final goal.



Will it be violent or non violent?

The people participating in it will decide when the time comes. I would assume that if there is a chance for non violence that will be taken but if they firmly believe in revolution , then I believe they will do nearly anything to "get the job done".

We can see that it is in crisis now if we look at the stock markets of the past 2-3 years now, and how they are dropping significantly. (it would be very helpful if someone found a graph of this to illustrate the point)


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/3359241.stm

It had ten years of solid growth out of the 90&#39;s, it would be impossible to maintain that growth through a recession. I don&#39;t think the stock market is in decline at this moment in time, it was just a dip downwards doe to economic conditions.


Look at the individual businesses how they are going bankrupt or making redundancies eg British Airways making 30,000 redundancies recently
I think people are catching on to the greed of corporate executives but that is not really enraging them to any extent, not that I can see to any true extent. Enron collapsed a huge company , yet the political ramifications were minimal, a few thousand may vote for the democrats. Whether this becomes a landslide, we will wait and see.






Another thing we see with this crisis is the strengthening of unions again

I am just wondering how they have been strengthened ? Or how there has been a move to the left recently ? From my perspective the Unions have never been in a weaker position, they hold less power than just about any other time in there existence. If you can show me otherwise, I&#39;ll be glad to see it.


as radicalisation of the unions has a direct effect on the Labour Party.
I thought the effect of the Unions of Tony Blair&#39;s "New Labour" has been minimal to non existence. His ideology is Neo Liberalism, which is very "anti union" in it&#39;s implementation.



huge increase in number of strikes

Have you got any links to this ?


Personally, I hope you are right about ten years but it seems optimistic.



Primary - Violence

Secondary - Education


I would disagree, as people will not be prepared to use violence on mass, unless they are educated as to why they are doing it. It&#39;s impractical to think otherwise in an advanced capitalist society.


they gonna have the military force on their side

Not necessarily , mutiny in the military would not be too hard to imagine when a revolution comes about. So, they may have the military on there side but not to the extent , I wouldn&#39;t predict that they have it today . Since many of those in the military will have the most to gain from a revolution

[Bad Grrrl Agro]

well gandhi did it

[Soviet power supreme]

Firstly what country u guys are talking about?


Secondary it wont be bloodless revolution.

Gandhi asked the brits to get the fuck off the India.
We are asking that the capitalists would give their factories and lands to the people.There are many capitalists and their supporter amount is huge.There are lot of people who actually supprot the capitalism eventough they dont own any company.


they gonna have the military force on their side

You got that right.The armies in west is full of right wingers.There arent many leftist in the armies.Or not in the commanding posts.

[Bad Grrrl Agro]

OKAY HOW ABOUT SALVADOR ALLENDE ORHUGO CHAVEZ

[Soviet power supreme]

What about Allende?He failed to rally army to his side and got killed.This just proves that we should never trust the right wingers.

What about Chavez?Well he isnt a marxist.He is just leftist.And leftist are just opportunist fucks without ideology.

[ComradeRobertRiley]

Chavez isnt a commie, he still trades with the U&#036; and stuff

[ComradeRed]

K, but why haven&#39;t you guys started a revolution? I&#39;m still in skool, and my parents are going krazy &#39;bout how i "have to get straight As",etc.

Chavez, is that an abreviation?

[ComradeRobertRiley]

Originally posted by [email protected] 5 2004, 06:42 AM
K, but why haven&#39;t you guys started a revolution? I&#39;m still in skool, and my parents are going krazy &#39;bout how i "have to get straight As",etc.

Chavez, is that an abreviation?
If my parents said that to me my reply would be:


"Fuck you&#33;"



P.S. listen to John Lennon&#39;s song - Working class hero. You may learn something about school

[ComradeRed]

Damn, that is a good song. Thx for reffering that 2 me.

[Kez]

hmmm, good morning, but has no1 seen the blood spilt in the Venuzuelan revolutions? fucking jesus...

Chavez is good for us, as he will show the bankruptcy of capitlaism, and to what lengths it will go to fight the workers rights, this will radicalise the workers, and make them more class consious, and with the final ingredient of marxists patiently explaining, boom, we have revoltuion. So dont diss Chavez, better him than a puppet of Bush, like in Georgia...

[The Feral Underclass]

WHEN is it coming?

When the working class have become conscious of their material conditions. At present the majority of the workers go about their lives believing that reality as it stands now is the only way it could ever be and that there is nothing that could change it. Most belief that there are those who are rich and those who are not and that is the way it is and will always be.

Fortunatly for the world there are people like those on this board (well some of them) who have realised what capitalism is and what it does to the workers. Eventually as capitalism begins to get further into crises the workers will realise what we have realised and will demand it justifies itself. it wont be able too of course, there is no justification for greed or exploiting people, and the workers will dismantle the entire system we live in.

As long as there is a revolutionary workers movement working class struggle will be on the table. It just needs dedicated conscious members to help build and fight for change. Who knows when it will come. Maybe in 10 years maybe in 100 years but it is definatly going to come. Just like the bouregois destrroyed feudelism the workers will destroy capitalism.


Will it be violent or non violent?

Most definatly violent. The ruling class are not going to role over without a fight. That is obvious even from demonstrations against capitalism, not necesserily demanding it to be changed. Look at genoa. The police murdered a 23 year old anarchist Carlos Guiliani The Making of a Martyr (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/bh/1462811.stm)

When the workers go out onto the streets the police and army will come with guns and tanks, at that point we defend ourselves.


Where will we begin?

Who knows? For it to be international succesful it has to be throughout third world countries. Western countries are at advanced stages of capitalism so working classstruggle is more relevant here.

Consciousness will be a gradual thing and action will begin with the movement growing bigger. At a certain point it will become so big that people everywhere will be talking about it. Direct action will begin at this point, demonstrations, riots and eventually when the movement is organized the workers will demand change and will take control.

But that could just be a naive prediction. You can never know how it will start, all we know is it will.

[BOZG]

Chavez is good for us, as he will show the bankruptcy of capitlaism, and to what lengths it will go to fight the workers rights, this will radicalise the workers, and make them more class consious, and with the final ingredient of marxists patiently explaining, boom, we have revoltuion. So dont diss Chavez, better him than a puppet of Bush, like in Georgia

I agree that I&#39;d rather have Chavez in power, rather than a Bush puppet but I have no illusions that Chavez will ever show the bankruptcy of capitalism. While he may retain some progressive policies, he will never challenge the Venezuelan ruling class, thus he will never carry through a revolution.

[The Feral Underclass]

Petey

Ghandi was used by the british to keep order and peace in india and gave independence only when they wanted too.

Anyway Ghandi wasnt trying to change reality, he was trying to liberate a country so a new group of rulers could exploit the indian workers.

The point of a workers movement is to take control and change reality. Make soceity fairer and more equal for working class people. You can not do that in the context of captalism. Allende and Chavez could ´never have dismateled capitalism from their bouregois seats of power. Those seats of power were designed to keep capitalism in its place and as soon as they try and change anything look what happens coups and more coups. The reason these coups happen is because capitalism was not confronted directly and smashed.

These bastards wont go down without a fight. It&#39;s as simple as that.

[ComradeRobertRiley]

We are consumers.

Do we need fancy cars and leather sofa&#39;s? no

we are consumers.

We are slaves to the system.

What we own, owns us.

Do we need a big fuckin tele?

Is it essential to our survival?

We are all slaves.

We&#39;re not concerned about starvation or how many people died today.

What concerns me is celebratey magazines and whos name is on my underwear and how many channels i have for the tele.

[Kez]

another excellent analysis from the great theorist Robo....

My point on Chavez wasnt that he would lead a revolution, no, i dont think he has any intention to do so, but rather my point was he is a factor in radicalising the workers, making them more ready for when marxists are there to spread message.

My point in Chavez showing bankruptcy of ruling class, is that he WONT do anything radical enough, leading workers to conclusion that there is no "nice" ruling class such as Chavez, and therefore will lead workers to back a more radical left wing leadership

[ComradeRobertRiley]

Thanks Kamo, I know you have always been a fan of my work.....

[Bad Grrrl Agro]

i guess i&#39;m just a leftist

[Spartacus2002]

i think it should be an anarcho commie revolution then the people can control the decision making with councils and there is no room for dictators and we should start by making communes of anarcho communism and be self sufficeint, with our own organically grown food, electricity (solar panels, windmills etc.) and other neccessities... if its works out really good we will be self sufficeint and not need taxes... soon other people would want to join and if it was popular enough soon alot of people would and the gov. would dissolve due to lack of income from taxes... it all works in my head but thats probably the only place

[ComradeRobertRiley]

Sounds good to me, when do we start?

[ComradeRed]

It&#39;s a good plan; however, i wish to ask one question, wouldn&#39;t we need to pay property taxes? If we dont we could go to jail and lose the land, which is bad. Other than that it sounds really good.

Wait, would we have a government in the commune, or just an anarchy. And would all the communes have the same gov&#39;t?

[Kez]

:rolleyes:

[The Feral Underclass]

Spartacus2002

Your ideas are very noble but I dont think they would stand up to the might of capitalism.


i think it should be an anarcho commie revolution then the people can control the decision making with councils

I agree, although you go onto argue that a revolution is not necessary :unsure:


there is no room for dictators

Not even if they call themselves "workers" dictators <_<


we should start by making communes of anarcho communism and be self sufficeint

The idea of self sufficient communes is not a new idea and there is nothing wrong with them in order for anarchists and real communists to come together but the problem you have with these is that they are only ever home to anarchists and real communists and do little to fight for class consciousness among workers let alone challenge capitalism to any degree.


with our own organically grown food, electricity (solar panels, windmills etc.)

Of course you can always make these things work for very little money, the Danish Teachers Group built the first windmill in Denmark in the 70&#39;s with next to nothing, but even if it did work it would be highly difficult to publicise it let alone make people interested. These communes pose no threat to capitalism&#33;


if its works out really good we will be self sufficeint and not need taxes

I presume you mean if it catches on around the country&#33; Which is highly unlikly. The ruling class would use guns and tanks to stop it before this happened.


soon other people would want to join

Even if it did work, which it probably would, the media are never going to publicise it. Of course we could publicise it oursleves, but to be honest no one is going to give up houses to come and live in an anarchist commune.

Of course once a movement had been built to a sufficient level consciousness may lead to people wanting to set up these communes you never know, but the issue here is what would the ruling class do. Building these communes is just a tactic, it is not an overall means to an end.

What people have to realise is that whenever a mass movement begins to threaten the establishment or the ruling class they will retaliate with force. At this point we have to defend ourselves. Either that or go home.


the gov. would dissolve due to lack of income from taxes

If people didnt pay their taxes the government would force them too. Even if the communes managed tog et out of it the ruling class would just not stand for it. They would make new laws and enforce them with force. What do we do then sit back, go home, give in, or fight back&#33;


it all works in my head but thats probably the only place

I&#39;m afraid so&#33;

[The Feral Underclass]

ComradeRed


It&#39;s a good plan;

No it isnt&#33;


wouldn&#39;t we need to pay property taxes?

Among other things&#33; If we were self sufficient we would be generating wealth, the government would demand taces from us and if we didnt pay they would send the police in to arrest us and close us down.


If we dont we could go to jail and lose the land, which is bad. Other than that it sounds really good.

I would say it was a fundamental flaw. This is the point. The ruling class is always going to respond like this, that is why we have to defend ourselves, that is why a revolution is inevitbale.


would we have a government in the commune, or just an anarchy.

Each collective or commune would have an assembly which was voluntary which was a place for people to discuss issues and solve problems within the community. There would be no central committee or hierarchy.


And would all the communes have the same gov&#39;t?

Each commune would have the right to decide how it wanted an assembly to work but the principles would have to remain the same. IE no central authority or hierarchy.

[ComradeRed]

Anarchist Tension, thanks for the info on communes.
I agree that it MAY be necessary to defend our selves, but not inevitable. your comment on worker dictators, dictators are dictators, the only way it could possibly work is if there is social contract clause (something along the lines of the dictator will be put out of power if he or she betrays the people).

Side note: at my skool there is a lot of communists and we wanted to start a klub, but theres a rule against a &#39;communist club&#39; from the red skare, any suggestions on names? Theres a republican club, it&#39;s not fair...

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

&#39;When will it happen?&#39;

fer I&#39;ve commed.

the revolutioion will happen when those vcappe batseds get too greddy and demand all dporst fo things form the wroking class... then ppeople will get angry tand then we will have REVOULTION>>>>>

[FistFullOfSteel]

Originally posted by Soviet power [email protected] 4 2004, 08:02 PM
Firstly what country u guys are talking about?


Secondary it wont be bloodless revolution.

Gandhi asked the brits to get the fuck off the India.
We are asking that the capitalists would give their factories and lands to the people.There are many capitalists and their supporter amount is huge.There are lot of people who actually supprot the capitalism eventough they dont own any company.


they gonna have the military force on their side

You got that right.The armies in west is full of right wingers.There arent many leftist in the armies.Or not in the commanding posts.
agree...right-wingers buys the militay force

[Spartacus2002]

i think your probably right we&#39;d have to defend ourselves... arent properties a one time thing... we could have an on-site militia or something but even if it didnt crush capitalism it could prove to the world that anarcho communism could work and maybe give some people some stuff to thing about... i would do it if i thought i could get like a hundred other people too which could be possible

[Spartacus2002]

Originally posted by The Anarchist [email protected] 7 2004, 04:22 PM
ComradeRed


It&#39;s a good plan;

No it isnt&#33;

I would say it was a fundamental flaw. This is the point. The ruling class is always going to respond like this, that is why we have to defend ourselves, that is why a revolution is inevitbale.

wouldn&#39;t we need to pay property taxes?

Among other things&#33; If we were self sufficient we would be generating wealth, the government would demand taces from us and if we didnt pay they would send the police in to arrest us and close us down.


If we dont we could go to jail and lose the land, which is bad. Other than that it sounds really good.



would we have a government in the commune, or just an anarchy.

Each collective or commune would have an assembly which was voluntary which was a place for people to discuss issues and solve problems within the community. There would be no central committee or hierarchy.


And would all the communes have the same gov&#39;t?

Each commune would have the right to decide how it wanted an assembly to work but the principles would have to remain the same. IE no central authority or hierarchy.

Among other things&#33; If we were self sufficient we would be generating wealth, the government would demand taces from us and if we didnt pay they would send the police in to arrest us and close us down.
if you have no cash involved (example bartering, growing food making clothes) could you not theoretically never need to pay taxes

[/QUOTE]Among other things&#33; If we were self sufficient we would be generating wealth, the government would demand taces from us and if we didnt pay they would send the police in to arrest us and close us down.[QUOTE]

then we&#39;d defend ourselves and die martyrs who cares as long as we take our beliefs seriously enough to act on them or we really dont believe them we are just talking

[ComradeRed]

if you have no cash involved (example bartering, growing food making clothes) could you not theoretically never need to pay taxes
i meant to pay the U&#036; gov&#39;t, so it would be legit.

[revelution]

I have to say,

[Ralph]

i agree with revelution

:ph34r:

[ComradeRobertRiley]

I like what Spartacus2002 is saying.

We definately should not pay taxes or contribute in anyway to the fascist bastards in government.

[ComradeRed]

Im afraid i, too, agree with spartacus, but that does look like a good idea, revelotuion....

[dannie]

i would prefer peacefull rev. over a bloody one, the communes idea is a good one but wouldn&#39;t work in practice, the government would shut it down in an instant because it might work as an inspirational source to others ...
at this point i&#39;m still forming my ideas on revolution and how it will occur

[Kez]

of course the ruling class would shut it down, thats why were forced to fight a violent revolution

[The Feral Underclass]

Spartacus2002


we could have an on-site militia or something but even if it didnt crush capitalism it could prove to the world that anarcho communism

I dont know where you come from but in england we are not allowed to have guns. Especially for "militias." If you set up a commune and the police and army came to shut it down and you attacked them and ended up fighting and dieing then that would not be a success the world would suddenly open their eyes too. It would be an unmittigated failure which the state would twist to make you look like terrorists.

Your whole idea is based on the notion that the ruling class are nice people. That they aren&#39;t really that bad. That we are free to do what we want and that success is enough to suddenly, without any explination how, change the entire fabric of society so fundamentally that everyone suddenly becomes an anarchist.

We are not free and the ruling class are by no means nice. They are ruthless parasites who have no quirm in putting a bullet in the abck of yours, mine or anyone elses head if they think their interests are being threatened.


and maybe give some people some stuff to thing about

Being class conscious is not like deciding to have cornflakes instead of cheerios. There are hundreds of communes that exist around the world and do you know about any of them. Do you think that your parents would suddenly become anarchists because of some commune that exists out in the countryside where they grow their own organic food? How on earth are you even going to let people know? Through the boruegois media?

Fighting for class consciousness means having to dedicate your life to building a mass movement. A movement that confronts captialisma nd demand it justifies itself. In order to get cosnciousness on the tables you have go into working class areas and talk to people, find out their needs and wants and build around united front issues. You can not do that through isolating a group of anarchists in a commune somewhere in the wilderness.


i would do it if i thought i could get like a hundred other people too which could be possible

You probably could. But you aren&#39;t going to change society by doing it.


if you have no cash involved (example bartering, growing food making clothes) could you not theoretically never need to pay taxes

Your not paying attention&#33; The ruling class will never allow these communes to work. No matter what you do or how succesful you are, the state will always attempt to maintain itself either through propoganda or through force.

You are not looking realisticly at society. You do not seem to understand how society works. The ruling class control the army, the police force and the security forces and they control them in order to perpetrate their control over us. Capitalism is an instituationalised system which benifits indeviduals on a vast scale. They have unimaginable wealth and with it unimaginable power.

Do you honestly believe that we could set up a few communes and that would be the end of it. How will these communes shift the power and wealth to the working class? Do you think George Bush, Rupert Murdoch, Dick Cheney, Donal Rumsfeld, Jaques Chirac and Tony Blair and all the other giant oil and business owners will just role over and hand their power and wealth to us on a plate? Are you expoecting them to suddenly see the errors of their ways and join a commune? What about those army Generals and Police cheifs who don&#39;t want to join these hippy communes? Building a few communes will not stop the giganticness that capitalism is.

As soon as the balance of power begins to shift these parasites will use every means necessary to maintain power? To think otherwise is just idealism. Naivity on a dangerous level. These people wage wars on innocent people to secure territory and economic wealth. They support brutal regimes just so they can buy luxury yacts and have billions in the bank. No matter how you attempt to modify and rearrange the construction of present society you will never ever be able to unseat these bastards without a fight. They wont let you&#33;


then we&#39;d defend ourselves

Yes, it&#39;s called a revolution&#33;


and die martyrs who cares as long as we take our beliefs seriously enough

The point is not to die as martyrs it&#39;s to smash captialism and create a new society. That can&#39;t happen if we are all dead. I admire your dedication, if not a little dramatic, but that dedication has to be for a point. Your thoughts should not be about dieing in a blaze of glory, which in the end serves no real purpose, but should be about how do you spread consciousness to the workers. Go and join an Anarchist Federation and work for them for a while.

[The Feral Underclass]

ComradeRed


I agree that it MAY be necessary to defend our selves, but not inevitable.

Do you think that George Bush and his cronies and all the others around the world who control the worlds resources and wealth are just going to turn around one day, suddenly realising their mistakes, and hand over all their power, all their wealth to a bunch of leftys, just because we have a commune that grows organic vegitables. Wake up for fuck sake&#33;


your comment on worker dictators, dictators are dictators,

I was agreeing with you. Dictators are dictators, even if theya re called workers dictators. Which some people like Kez would say was ok :angry:


the only way it could possibly work is if there is social contract clause (something along the lines of the dictator will be put out of power if he or she betrays the people).

Right next to the maximum genocide rate clause.....Only 3,000,000 this year. We can review next year when you renew your contract :lol: Yeah...dictators usually have social contract clauses when they sign up for the job <_< "SHEFFIELD STAR JOBS ADD...DICTATORS WANTED (but no betraying the people - experience not necessary)"


Side note: at my skool there is a lot of communists and we wanted to start a klub, but theres a rule against a &#39;communist club&#39; from the red skare, any suggestions on names? Theres a republican club, it&#39;s not fair...

Call it the "Not a Communist Club."

[Ralph]

Originally posted by The Anarchist [email protected] 11 2004, 09:42 AM
Call it the "Not a Communist Club."
:D


funny name :lol:

[ComradeRed]

seriously, for some reason the skool wont lemme start a "communist club" sp ill need something to call it...

Right next to the maximum genocide rate clause.....Only 3,000,000 this year. We can review next year when you renew your contract Yeah...dictators usually have social contract clauses when they sign up for the job "SHEFFIELD STAR JOBS ADD...DICTATORS WANTED (but no betraying the people - experience not necessary)"
i was reffering to a clause embodying rousseau&#39;s Social Contract, not a literal contract. Its a little long, but here is the social contract (http://www.constitution.org/jjr/socon.htm)

[The Feral Underclass]

i was reffering to a clause embodying rousseau&#39;s Social Contract, not a literal contract. Its a little long, but here is the social contract

It&#39;s irrelevant anyway I would oppose any dictatorship or state with force if necessary.

[ComradeRed]

SERIOUSLY GUYS WE NEED TO ORGANIZE&#33;&#33;&#33; (MAYBE IF I TYPE WITH CAPS LOCK ON YOU&#39;LL MOVE FASTER....) As i see it, there are two options: 1 we can openly, or secretly, have a guerilla mov&#39;t; option 2, have rebellions in 3d world countries. OR IS THERE SOMETHING ELSE??? ORGANIZE, RALLY, DEMONSTRATE, REBEL, DO SOMETHING&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;

[BOZG]

1 we can openly, or secretly, have a guerilla mov&#39;t; option

A guerrilla movement for starters can not succeed without support from the people it is trying to liberate and at the moment, there is not completel international support for socialism. Also a guerrilla movement can never really acheive socialism because it belittles the idea of the working class as a whole taking action to implement socialism and smash capitalism.


have rebellions in 3d world countries.

The ability to have a rebellion is there but is there the consciousness and the support for socialism. I doubt it.



The most important thing we can do for the time being is BUILD and we can only build by spreading our ideas, by listening to peoples&#39; moans and groans about society and build from there. It is also important that we push ourselves and that we try and learn more and more and advance our own consciousness while trying to advance the consciousness of everyone you come into contact with.

[The Feral Underclass]

1 we can openly, or secretly, have a guerilla mov&#39;t; option

Pretty much everything that BornOfZapatasGuns said. Although it depends on what socialism he is taking about. Fighting for fundamental societal change should not be a unilateral act of a small group of armed people. it should be a popular mass uprising. We are not chaning society for ourselves the working class must want to change it also. This is their revolution as much as it is ours.


2 have rebellions in 3d world countries.

This leads to Maoism or something worse. communist revolution can not happen in thrid world countries. These countries have small or no working class. Communism is the next logical step from capitalism and can only be achieved by conscious exploited workers. People in third world countries live in a sort of modern day feudelism. Many have land of their own or live in small rural communities which are governed by tribal chiefs (especially in africa). Communism dosnt apply to them. Communism is about liberating working class people from exploitation of a ruling class. Maybe i&#39;m balancing on polemics here but illiterate, under developed farmers do not have the capability or historical necessity for a revolution of this kind. :unsure:

[革命者]

Originally posted by [email protected] 28 2003, 07:57 AM
We all probably say "when the revolution comes/happens ...", but WHEN is it coming? Will it be violent or non violent? Where will we begin?
Simply when the time is there that this parliamentary "democratic" system is out-of-date. When enough people see what a shitty democracy we got used to we have in our governments&#39; parlementary bodies, they will overtrow it.

So, in the end, when society is ready for the change, it will happen.

Only when it reaches the "best before"-date we should jump into action, otherwise the government will use military power to stay in office, and it could get very bloody.

[Spartacus2002]

thanks anarchist tension for destroying my ideas, i really dont think they&#39;d work either i believe though we should investigate every possible avenue, i know a couple of communes wouldnt change anything i think realistically any of our noble leftist ideas would work, not in our world not with people the way that they are. we all are to selfish, ambitious and petty to make them work but i try anyways, i just like the thought of living with people who think as i do. i mean it would be cool but it would not change society. and remember you are in britian and i am in canada... are military sucks and probably couldnt crush us and the liberal canadian media would sypathise with us and give us alot of air time i am guessing. as for me being overly dramatic, you say by dying in a revolution we are no good towards that cause, remember what che said, death should be welcomed so long as a receptive ear hears our battle cry and carrys on the fight.. but the truth is in our society no one would hear our battle cry because their tv&#39;s and britney spears cd&#39;s would drown us out.