What Is Postmodernism?

[Ilyich]

There are probably a lot of threads about this already but I have decided to start a new one. So, what is it? There are a lot of definitions I've seen and the only one I can understand is the one that says that postmodernism is a rejection if modernism as an antiquated worldview. But, that leaves a lot of questions unanswered: What is meant by 'modernism?' Why is it rejected? What is the conflict with Marxism? Etc. If someone could answer these questions simply or at least redirect me to something that does so, I would be appreciative.

[jookyle]

Subjectivity is king. Post-modernism rejects the idea of there being objective truths in any sense. All that matters is personal perception and subjectivity.

[Comrade #138672]

In essence, postmodernism is based on the position that reality is not mirrored in human understanding of it, but is rather constructed as the mind tries to understand its own personal reality. Postmodernism is therefore skeptical of explanations that claim to be valid for all groups, cultures, traditions, or races, and instead focuses on the relative truths of each person (i.e. postmodernism = relativism). In the postmodern understanding, interpretation is everything; reality only comes into being through our interpretations of what the world means to us individually. Postmodernism relies on concrete experience over abstract principles, arguing that the outcome of one's own experience will necessarily be fallible and relative, rather than certain or universal.Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Postmodernism

This is a pretty good explanation. I used to be a postmodernist. It allowed me to criticize many bourgeois ideologies, even though postmodernism itself may be considered a bourgeois ideology. However, its limitations became quite apparent and I was forced to see beyond it.

[hatzel]

Subjectivity is king. Post-modernism rejects the idea of there being objective truths in any sense. All that matters is personal perception and subjectivity.

Bullshit (http://www.marxists.org/reference/subject/philosophy/works/en/heartfield-james.htm)

[Ilyich]

Subjectivity is king. Post-modernism rejects the idea of there being objective truths in any sense. All that matters is personal perception and subjectivity.

Forgive me, I know little about the philosophic (I might even get in trouble for using that word) aspects of Marxism but didn't Marx reject the objectivism of Hegel? By the way, I have little idea what I'm talking about right now.

[Ilyich]

Bullshit (http://www.marxists.org/reference/subject/philosophy/works/en/heartfield-james.htm)

Postmodernism is bullshit or Jookle's explanation is? What is the link you posted about?

[hatzel]

Postmodernism is bullshit or Jookle's explanation is? What is the link you posted about?

Jookyle's explanation is bullshit because - as the article states very explicitly (click it and see, maybe?) - there's nothing 'subjective' in this so-called 'postmodernism.' That's also why people write stuff like this (http://www.metamodernism.com/2011/11/02/notes-on-the-state-of-the-subject/), by the way...

[Ilyich]

Jookyle's explanation is bullshit because - as the article states very explicitly (click it and see, maybe?) - there's nothing 'subjective' in this so-called 'postmodernism.' That's also why people write stuff like this (http://www.metamodernism.com/2011/11/02/notes-on-the-state-of-the-subject/), by the way...

What is postmodernism though? The article started with something about Pope John Paul II and ended with something about all ideologies being "tall tales" according to the postmodernists.

[l'Enfermé]

"In a discourse that casts doubt on the credulity of metanarratives, that questions the hermeneutics of meaning, the rational, self-contained subject of modernism has had a hard time indeed"

"Postmodernism then dismantles and deconstructs all the grand-narratives and overriding truths, only this time this affects not only the grand-narrative of religion, but also the subject itself, whose status as a rational entity is seen as another grand-narrative."

"In Performatism or The End of Postmodernism, the literary scholar Raoul Eshelman depicts a new kind of subject that establishes itself in spite of disruptive forces in an act of belief. This subject is a coherent self that re-introduces the possibility for identification, affection and selfhood, although not in a naïve, unreflective way."

"The reemerged subject is not the old modern one. It contains no transcendental justifications. Concepts of identity, selfhood and subjectivity can always be dismantled and deconstructed. But while the awareness about this still rightfully persists, new times call us to acknowledge that the subject nevertheless appears, in moments of intersubjectivity, in reciprocal spaces of believe, trust and love."

"
It is this oscillation between the belief in what is written to be true and the consciousness of it being utterly unlikely that makes for the beauty of the artwork and reflects a feeling that may very well be called metamodern. It is a moment of trust and love despite the harsh reality. It possesses at the same time sincerity and irony. The installation provides us with contained hope that is accompanied by a twitch of melancholy."


Whenever I read this post-modernist crap I feel like I'm reading something generated by some satirical "postmodernist essay generator". Seriously, compare hatzel's article with this (http://www.elsewhere.org/journal/pomo/76356320/). It's like the same person wrote both.

[Geiseric]

Its a bunch of hooplah that doesn't really matter. I've asked this a few times, its just abstract garbage for the sake of selling books to hipsters.

[blake 3:17]

There are a few distinctions which should be made in the Anglo-American discussion of postmodernism. Foucault, Kristeva, Derrida, and Deleuze should be understood as post- structuralists. Lyotard and Baudrillard are the primary thinkers of postmodernism.

I think there are a number of interesting and worthwhile ideas around postmodernism -- the critique and refusal of Progress, attention to new media, and various reconsiderations of aesthetics.

[Sperm-Doll Setsuna]

and various reconsiderations of aesthetics.

Would post-modernist architecture and it's rejection of modernist architecture be among those? 'cause post-modernist architecture and "contemporary modernism" are the worst abominations to ever blight the cities of the world. To the ash-heaps.

[blake 3:17]

I hate postmodern architecture, especially its meeting with brutalism. Brutalism is the worst.

[Sperm-Doll Setsuna]

I hate postmodern architecture, especially its meeting with brutalism. Brutalism is the worst.

I love brutalism. But this mixture sounds quite revolting. Would you happen to have any examples of this terrible hybrid?

[Ilyich]

I don't really know what's going on now but if what Broody says is correct (and I'm going to assume that it is as no one has directly countered his claim (though it has been said that "there are a number of interesting and worthwhile ideas around postmodernism")), I guess there are more important things for me to worry about at the moment. (?)

[MEGAMANTROTSKY]

If you'd like a primer on postmodernism, I would suggest "The Postmodern Condition" by Jean-Francois Lyotard. I think that's the best place to start if you wish to undertake a study of what makes it tick as a philosophy.

[Rugged Collectivist]

I love brutalism.

My thoughts exactly. I'm not sure what postmodernist architecture looks like so I would also like examples.

[Vanguard1917]

Jookyle's explanation is bullshit because - as the article states very explicitly (click it and see, maybe?) - there's nothing 'subjective' in this so-called 'postmodernism.' That's also why people write stuff like this (http://www.metamodernism.com/2011/11/02/notes-on-the-state-of-the-subject/), by the way...

Postmodernism does end up denigrating the subject, but it is 'subjectivist' in the sense that it rejects the validity of concepts like 'objective' or 'material' reality. So if i say that capitalism's exploitation of the worker is a material fact regardless of anyone's subjective interpretation of it, a postmodernist or poststructuralist may respond with something like, 'It is exploitation only insofar as it is articulated as such via discursive practices'.

To quote the 'post-Marxist' Laclau:

"An earthquake or the falling of a brick is an event that certainly exists in the sense that it occurs here and now, independently of my will. But whether their specificity as objects is constructed in terms of ‘natural phenomena’ or ‘expressions of the wrath of God’, depends upon the structuring of a discursive field. What is denied is not that such objects exist externally to thought, but the rather different assertion that they could constitute themselves as objects outside any discursive conditions of emergence.”

[blake 3:17]

Brutalism:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c0/Wean_hall.jpg/640px-Wean_hall.jpg
Post Modern:http://lisaevanscmp.files.wordpress.com/2010/10/geh0-030.jpg

Brutalism is the school = the factory = the hospital = the military base = the prison. Post modern architecture is usually playful with combinations of different styles and materials.

Buildings fail and succeed on their own terms. Most of what's important about a building is the invisible -- foundations, duct work, acoustics. I'm much more interested in how buildings are actually used than how they're planned.

In Toronto in the past decade there've been two big renovations of cultural institutions. The ROM was a very expensive disaster in my view. When it was open before the collection had been re-displayed people loved it, but lousy as a museum space. The biggest problem is that there;s barely a 90 degree angle in the new display areas, which wastes tonnes of space, is instantly dusty, is hard to clean, and has lousy acoustics so tours are often inaudible. The AGO has been a good one and aside from a couple of minor goof ups which were fixable, seems to work quite well.

There's been a crazy glut of condominium building which have terrible insulation for sound and temperature.

Excuse the drift...

[MEGAMANTROTSKY]

Brutalism:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c0/Wean_hall.jpg/640px-Wean_hall.jpg

Wean Hall...I hate that building. The inside isn't as depressing as its outside, but that's hardly comforting. You're spot on about the prison look.

[Os Cangaceiros]

Yeah, Brutalism has all the charm and aesthetic appeal of a 1950's Siberian apartment block. :lol:

[Ostrinski]

I don't think post-modernists have come to an agreement on what constitutes post-modern philosophy. Perhaps because if they were in fact able to do this, they would become the beast they see themselves as the antithesis of.