Mahalla (Egypt) Announces Autonomy

[Ocean Seal]

http://dailynewsegypt.com/2012/12/07/mahalla-announces-autonomy/

I'm beginning to notice a whole lot of anti-Islamism and militant workers actions in the Middle East. Is this the start of something new? A red (or most likely pink) Middle East?

[Yazman]

Fascinating. It's a shame the article is so short and lacking of details. There's a lot of questions I have about this. Is it a purely symbolic political move (just as important) or are they committed to autonomy as a political future?

Also am I the only one who gets aggravated by the media referring to the protests as a "revolution"? What revolution? The president stepping down and being replaced by similar lackeys is hardly a revolution. The status quo wasn't changed at all!

[Blake's Baby]

a comrade of mine has been collecting links on the situation in Egypt - here's a few he's found:

http://english.ahram.org.eg/NewsContent/1/64/59852/Egypt/Politics-/Bloody-confrontations-at-Egypts-presidential-palac.aspx

http://rt.com/news/egypt-protesters-announce-independence-572/

http://www.counterfire.org/index.php/articles/international/16184-egypt-a-new-crisis-and-the-tasks-of-the-left

[Os Cangaceiros]

Also am I the only one who gets aggravated by the media referring to the protests as a "revolution"? What revolution? The president stepping down and being replaced by similar lackeys is hardly a revolution. The status quo wasn't changed at all!

It was a political revolution, somewhat similar to a coup. I don't get why leftists get hung up on the definition of "revolution". There are revolutions (significant changes in states etc) that do not involve huge changes in economics and society.

I think the status quo was changed in Egypt, actually. Egypt didn't experience a full-blown social revolution, but the events of early 2011 represented not just Mubarak stepping down from power, but also the culmination of a long bitter struggle against Egypt's official trade union structure by Egypt's workers. They've been emboldened and that's why there has been so much union/strike activity in Egypt over the past couple years.

[cynicles]

Ha! Take that you islamocapitalist pigs! A revolution may not be around the corner but I'll be damned if this didn't kick my own cynicism square in the balls.

[Unapologetic]

How dare they threaten the integrity and stability of the Egyptian state!

[Ocean Seal]

Egypt didn't experience a full-blown social revolution, but the events of early 2011 represented not just Mubarak stepping down from power, but also the culmination of a long bitter struggle against Egypt's official trade union structure by Egypt's workers. They've been emboldened and that's why there has been so much union/strike activity in Egypt over the past couple years.
You know this seems kind of optimistic to me. I wouldn't say that I'm most knowledgeable in this area, but what trade-union struggle really existed? The largest strike I heard of during this revolution was one of 20,000 workers, and the largest "leftist" party seemed like Nasserist stuff and it finished third.

[Hermes]

Does anyone know if the government has made any move against them yet?

[Os Cangaceiros]

You know this seems kind of optimistic to me. I wouldn't say that I'm most knowledgeable in this area, but what trade-union struggle really existed?

From February 2011:

fTj3yVGFOLE

[Red Commissar]

Does anyone know if the government has made any move against them yet?

I don't know. When I search Mahalla I get the OP's article and something over on WSWS covering the same topic. There are other sources from left sources typically replicating another news article. The only "mainstream" newsarticle I get on it is something from Voice of Russia, and from some in the US but they only mention the street protests and confrontations with the police, nothing about declaring independence.

Another article on the same site as the OP which was written in response to this (titled "A very bad joke (http://dailynewsegypt.com/2012/12/10/a-very-bad-joke/)") seems to give a pessimistic vibe that nothing of the sort actually happened and instead seems to be the equivalent of a small group of people claiming they had control over the area. The military didn't take them seriously as such. This is not to say that Mahalla didn't see unrest or protest since trade unions independent of the state have been quite active all over the country, but seems to be skeptical that they coalesced around a common leadership to advance such a demand in the Mahalla area.

[Geiseric]

It's very possible that the military and government are afraid of the reaction if they shoot at the protesters, this could be the start of something bigger. It's a positive working class reaction to the intensified class struggle we've seen grow out of the faux elections, thus we should support it.

[Zealot]

It was a political revolution, somewhat similar to a coup. I don't get why leftists get hung up on the definition of "revolution". There are revolutions (significant changes in states etc) that do not involve huge changes in economics and society.

I think the status quo was changed in Egypt, actually. Egypt didn't experience a full-blown social revolution, but the events of early 2011 represented not just Mubarak stepping down from power, but also the culmination of a long bitter struggle against Egypt's official trade union structure by Egypt's workers. They've been emboldened and that's why there has been so much union/strike activity in Egypt over the past couple years.

It was not a revolution at all. Revolution has a specific meaning in political science and a coup carried out by disgruntled elites is certainly not classified as a revolution.

Apart from that, the events have expanded consciousness and allowed the rise of militant movements that may actually be a significant force in a real future revolution.

[Os Cangaceiros]

Dude poli scientists and poli sci textbooks refer to small groups of elites seizing power after popular unrest as "revolutions" all the time.

[A Revolutionary Tool]

You know this seems kind of optimistic to me. I wouldn't say that I'm most knowledgeable in this area, but what trade-union struggle really existed? The largest strike I heard of during this revolution was one of 20,000 workers, and the largest "leftist" party seemed like Nasserist stuff and it finished third.

Dude just check out the threads in the Arab protests section about Egypt. You will find post after post talking about strike wave after strike wave once Mubarak was gone(and the straw that broke the camels back was a general strike, which means it probably had a lot more than 20k workers).

[Luís Henrique]

I don't get why leftists get hung up on the definition of "revolution".

Simple.

It allows us to justify not taking part in any political action. Since it is only a revolution if it changes the mode of production, and since we cannot know in advance whether this or that political turmoil will bring regime change, or whether this or that regime change will entail a change in the mode of production, we can safely sit in our chairs claiming "it is not a revolution, so I won't have any part on it", and pretend to be extreme revolutionaries without having to do anything dangerous.

Luís Henrique

[Luís Henrique]

Another article on the same site as the OP which was written in response to this (titled "A very bad joke (http://dailynewsegypt.com/2012/12/10/a-very-bad-joke/)") seems to give a pessimistic vibe that nothing of the sort actually happened and instead seems to be the equivalent of a small group of people claiming they had control over the area.

Reminds me of an article by Engels on the 1873 insurrection in Spain that was recently quoted here in revleft. "Masters of the situation" was the phrase used in the event.

Luís Henrique

[cynicles]

Simple.

It allows us to justify not taking part in any political action. Since it is only a revolution if it changes the mode of production, and since we cannot know in advance whether this or that political turmoil will bring regime change, or whether this or that regime change will entail a change in the mode of production, we can safely sit in our chairs claiming "it is not a revolution, so I won't have any part on it", and pretend to be extreme revolutionaries without having to do anything dangerous.

Luís Henrique
If you live in a world of strawmen and internet forum stereotypes generated by self-hating leftists.

[Zealot]

Dude poli scientists and poli sci textbooks refer to small groups of elites seizing power after popular unrest as "revolutions" all the time.

Small groups of elites seizing power is usually called a coup in poli sci. Obviously, some have agendas of their own and would refer to some coups as revolutions. Reactionary political scientists even have difficulty concluding that the October Revolution was actually a revolution. But in the case of the Egyptian "Revolution" it's quite clear that there was no revolution at all. There were popular protests but not "revolution" as such. A coup was carried out by elites who masqueraded their actions under revolutionary rhetoric and this is fairly obvious given the continued protests in Egypt.

[Luís Henrique]

If you live in a world of strawmen and internet forum stereotypes generated by self-hating leftists.

What other world is there?

Luís Henrique

[Luís Henrique]

Small groups of elites seizing power is usually called a coup in poli sci.

When they do it by themselves, no doubt. When they do it surfing broad popular unrest or insurrection? That would be the question.


But in the case of the Egyptian "Revolution" it's quite clear that there was no revolution at all.

Was the French Revolution of 1848 a revolution? What about that of 1830?

Both are always refered as "revolutions" in mainstream political science. And even in Marxist literature - starting with Marx.

Luís Henrique

[Fruit of Ulysses]

its incorrect to classify it as just "anti-islamism", Islam in the middle east is not what organized religion is The West. Its a culture, a lifestyle, I doubt anyone in the Egyptian strikes/protests conciously thinks of their actions as "anti-islamism". More precisely, it is anti-wahabism/salafism, which is the supreme manifestation of reaction in the cultural arena of Islam.

Nor is this the rise of a new red or "pink" middle east, throughout the 20th century the so-called middle east was a burgeoning center of revolutionary thought and activity and has been home to organizations and theoreticians at the forefront of the anti-imperialist struggle. To deny the middle east its rich history of radical leftism is revisionism. Not that I'm saying anyone is denying it of this though.

[l'Enfermé]

Comrade, the July Revolution of 1830 removed the feudal remnants from power and handed over political power to the big bourgeoisie and installed a "bourgeois King". In June 1848 French workers launched a proletarian revolution and built hundreds of barricades manned by proletarians in Paris and were massacred by the Army and the National and Republican Guards.

In Egypt, on the other hand, we just saw a regime change without any changes in the ruling class.