What can convince you that the National Socialist German Workers' Party was wrong?

[Ignoratio_The_Great]

The National Socialist German Workers Party, led by Adolf Hitler, was a totalitarian revolutionary leftist party. Here was their program:

avalon.law.yale(DOT)edu/imt/nsdappro.asp

Highlights: They took over the finances, nationalized healthcare, seized the car industry, stole companies, did away with private enterprise, etc.

11. That all unearned income, and all income that does not arise from work, be abolished.

12. Since every war imposes on the people fearful sacrifices in blood and treasure, all personal profit arising from the war must be regarded as treason to the people We therefore demand the total confiscation of all war profits.

13. We demand the nationalization of all trusts.

14. We demand profit-sharing in large industries.

17. We demand an agrarian reform in accordance with our national requirements, and the enactment of a law to expropriate the owners without compensation of any land needed for the common purpose. The abolition of ground rents, and the prohibition of all speculation in land.

18. We demand that ruthless war be waged against those who work to the injury of the common welfare. Traitors, usurers, profiteers, etc., are to be punished with death, regardless of creed or race.

20. In order to make it possible for every capable and industrious German to obtain higher education, and thus the opportunity to reach into positions of leadership, the State must assume the responsibility of organizing thoroughly the entire cultural system of the people.

21. The State has the duty to help raise the standard of national health by providing maternity welfare centers, by prohibiting juvenile labor, by increasing physical fitness through the introduction of compulsory games and gymnastics, and by the greatest possible encouragement of associations concerned with the physical education of the young.


Leftists can kill other leftists and still be leftist. This is undisputable.

"We are socialists, we are enemies of today’s capitalistic economic system for the exploitation of the economically weak, with its unfair salaries, with its unseemly evaluation of a human being according to wealth and property instead of responsibility and performance, and we are determined to destroy this system under all conditions”

- Adolf Hitler, Hitler’s speech on May 1, 1927. Cited in: Toland, John (1992). Adolf Hitler. Anchor Books. pp. 224–225

All of the Nazi’s economic policies were leftist. They supported running large deficits and using government programs to reduce unemployment. They also had government controlled wages and price fixing.

[Flying Purple People Eater]

All of the Nazi’s economic policies were leftist. They supported running large deficits and using government programs to reduce unemployment. They also had government controlled wages and price fixing.
You are right comrade. Let us embrace Neoclassical economy and invade Iran.

[Zukunftsmusik]

All of the Nazi’s economic policies were leftist. They supported running large deficits and using government programs to reduce unemployment. They also had government controlled wages and price fixing.

this can be said about pretty much any western country. doesn't make it any less capitalist.

If this is "leftist" then I'm not at all a leftist.

[campesino]

a

[Tim Cornelis]

"Why," I asked Hitler, "do you call yourself a National Socialist, since your party programme is the very antithesis of that commonly accredited to socialism?"

"Socialism," he retorted, putting down his cup of tea, pugnaciously, "is the science of dealing with the common weal. Communism is not Socialism. Marxism is not Socialism. The Marxians have stolen the term and confused its meaning. I shall take Socialism away from the Socialists.

"Socialism is an ancient Aryan, Germanic institution. Our German ancestors held certain lands in common. They cultivated the idea of the common weal. Marxism has no right to disguise itself as socialism. Socialism, unlike Marxism, does not repudiate private property. Unlike Marxism, it involves no negation of personality, and unlike Marxism, it is patriotic.

"We might have called ourselves the Liberal Party. We chose to call ourselves the National Socialists. We are not internationalists. Our socialism is national. We demand the fulfilment of the just claims of the productive classes by the state on the basis of race solidarity. To us state and race are one."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/theguardian/2007/sep/17/greatinterviews1

[Rafiq]

As Marxists we do not analyze parties on the basis of their direct ideas, but their class nature. It is obvious even to a child that this "program" was objectively petite bourgeois, with the usage of communist terminology only to attract proletarians. Notice the very specific means in which they assert their position: The exceedingly apparent moralism, not a word regarding class struggle, not a word regarding the destruction of private property, not a word regarding the emancipation of the proletariat, of revolutionary dictatorship and of the destruction of the bourgeois class as a whole. No, only tirades against the "bad" capitalists, the "big bad banks", the "corrupt, cosmopolitan businessmen" and the decadent, "wild west capitalism" that posed a threat to family values existent in other European countries. This "anti capitalism" is quite similar to the anti captialism we see in the media today, against the big bad corporations who are exploiting children, their specific scandals, etc.

Not only is this not a form of revolutionary proletarian consciousness, it is an extremely competent means in actually sustaining capitalist social relations in the most desperate of times. Because we see that this "injustice" is undeniable, they must resort to moralism and attribute the faults of capitalism not to the actual existing class relations, but greedy capitalists and unfair income equality. Does this not remind you of the young child who tells another to misbehave, only out of desperation to say "well he listened to me!" afterwards?

The Fascists though were not even Bourgeois leftists, though. Since because of Yazman I can't flame you, OP, just recognize that if I had the ability to tell you that "You're a fucking moron and a waste of everyone's time. You're a parrot of what makes right wingers in the United States laughable, you insufferable piece of shit. You deserve to fall down a staircase", I would certainly do so.

[Rafiq]

OP

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Night_of_the_Long_Knives
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[TheCat'sHat]

Fascism isn't really based on particular economic policies. Fascism is more predicated on the glorification of sacraficial violence, the mysteriousness and unknowability of the world, the glorification of hierarchy et cetera. I'd guess that the first protofascist was de Maistre who polemicized against the French Revolution and prompted the Tsar to be even more authoritarian. Just because the Nazi party called itself a national socialist party doesn't mean it had anything to do with the socialism of Marx or the anarchists. Unless Carl Schmitt was some sort of crypto-Marxist now (*hint* he was not a crypto-Marxist *hint*)

[GoddessCleoLover]

It will be interesting to see if the OP contributes to this thread or defend the proposition that the Nazis were "left". I suspect not, since trolls prefer hit-and-run tactics and this smells like a troll thread. I hop that I am wrong, but I doubt it. With respect to the substantive issue, many of the above posters have demonstrated the absurdity of the OP's hypothesis. Like Rafig posted, the Nazis are not even leftists within the context of bourgeois politics. Nazism emanated from the far right wing of bourgeois society, and most bourgeois historians accept this premise.

[prolcon]

What I like about RevLeft is that, when you guys do respond to trolls, and you always do, you're actually giving yourself the opportunity to articulate your thoughts with regards to fascism and where socialism is on the spectrum of political affiliation. OP isn't doesn't care about any of this information, so you may as well just enjoy the sport of reasoning.

[Jimmie Higgins]

It's an irony of history that the same sorts of politics which dismissed the rise of fascism while leftist workers and working class organiziations were arming workers against the fascists in Barcelona and Vienna and fighting them in the streets of Berlin etc, now like to claim that THEY are the opposition and that fascism is "leftist".:rolleyes: While in reality, the liberal Republics from Wiemar Germany to Spain did everything they could to appease the fascists and even offered them seats in government.

While workers fight the Golden Dawn in Greece, these same people call socialists and anarchists "fascists". I'd call it idiocy, but as fascism rises again due to the capitalist economic crisis, idiocy is not enough: suicidal is more like it.

[Yazman]

MODERATOR ACTION:

Gladiator, Yet Another Boring Marxis, and Marxaveli, If you're not here to discuss the topic, don't post. Either make a meaningful contribution to the thread or don't post at all. If you think somebody is a troll, then PM a moderator or post in this thread:

http://www.revleft.com/vb/fascist-and-troll-t171149/index.html

But DO NOT respond to threads flaming the OP or calling them a troll/saying they need to be banned.

I'm trashing the off-topic and image posts. You only get one warning so if y'all do it again you're getting infracted. Contribute to the boards or don't post at all. As far as psycho goes, I can't warn or infract you since you're an admin, but I can still trash your post so I'm doing that since it's off-topic and not allowed.

This post constitutes a warning to Gladiator, Yet Another Boring Marxis, and Marxaveli.

[ВАЛТЕР]

The Nazi party was in no way, shape, or form, leftist. Their politics were anti-worker, anti-union, and nationalist. They defended the owners of capital and industry, (people like Messerschmidt and other owners of industry hd a lot of political pull in Nazi Germany).

The fact that communists and trade unionists were among the first to be targeted by the fascists is enough to throw the imbecilic argument that the Nazi party was somehow leftist into the garbage bin.

On a side note: This idea that the Nazis were somehow a leftist party is pretty new as far as I can tell and seems to be confined to US conservatives. as I haven't heard this talk from anyone other than them.

[kashkin]

On a side note: This idea that the Nazis were somehow a leftist party is pretty new as far as I can tell and seems to be confined to US conservatives. as I haven't heard this talk from anyone other than them.

Not necessarily, I've heard this claim made by Britons as well.

[#FF0000]

All of the Nazi’s economic policies were leftist. They supported running large deficits and using government programs to reduce unemployment. They also had government controlled wages and price fixing.

Keynesianism =/= "leftism".

[GoddessCleoLover]

At best the Nazis were Military Keynesians. At least in the USA Roosevelt used Keynesian policies to construct public works. Hitler built a war machine and make no mistake that the Autobahnen were built as part of that war machine. The OP is quite artful in his selection and distortion of facts in support of his thesis. One might even infer intent from his course of conduct, but it could be coincidence.:rolleyes:

IMO even Strasserism, the so-called "left wing" of Nazism, is a right-wing phenomena. Strasserism rejects the notion of the class struggle in favor of the mythical Volksgemeinschaft, the Germanic community. Strasserism also shares the militarism of the Hitler NSDAP leadership, the only difference being that Gregor Strasser aligned himself with the Brownshirts, while the Blackshirts came to represent Hitler's praetorian guard. Both wings of the NSDAP were chauvinistic and anti-working class, ergo by definition they were of the Right not the Left.

[graffic]

The Nazi's anti-capitalism was a feather in their cap however they were not leftists. They were not entirely wrong of every issue. They were also honest and ideological, however bad they were. They were not trying to rip people off or subvert things, they genuinely believed they were doing what was in societies best interest, even though it obviously wasn't.

Free-market neo-liberals who are pro-capitalist are comprehensively "wrong" with no redeeming features. Whatever colour you wrap around the politics, most people want to help the worst off in society, they just have radically different ways of doing it. All ideologies are anti-capitalist and appeal to oppressed members of society, including conservatives, except for free-marketers.

Needless to say, the people who run the Western world today are the lowest human beings in existence and in the history of humanity. Not only do they not believe or pretend to believe they are doing what is in societies best interests like the Nazi's or Communists, they don't even want to or pretend to want to. It's non-ideological and it's pure nihilism. They fetishize capital and growth that is at the expense of all sorts of human misery and suffering that makes Hitler, Stalin, Genghis Kahn look like philanthropic humanitarians.

[prolcon]

Hitler and the NSDAP were hardly honest, by any stretch of the imagination.

[graffic]

Of course not. I mean that they thought they were doing what was in societies best interests, even though they were not. Hitler was ideological.

[Zeus the Moose]

Of course not. I mean that they thought they were doing what was in societies best interests, even though they were not. Hitler was ideological.

Pretty sure more or less everyone in politics thinks they are doing that, no matter sociopathic or anti-human their point of view actually is.

[GoddessCleoLover]

Zeus the Moose is spot on here. Just want to add that "society" as viewed by the Nazis did not include oppressed people just the Herrenvolk. The Nazi view of "society" is antithetical to ours.

[graffic]

Pretty sure more or less everyone in politics thinks they are doing that, no matter sociopathic or anti-human their point of view actually is.

No I think a lot of politicians are described as "non-ideological" because their views perhaps change and their ideology is therefore hard to pin down. They don't have strong convictions or ideas. In other words, they don't care.

[DDR]

No I think a lot of politicians are described as "non-ideological" because their views perhaps change and their ideology is therefore hard to pin down. They don't have strong convictions or ideas. In other words, they don't care.

They do have an ideology, money über alles. Both for their own pockets and their buddies the "job creators" (AKA the high bourgeisie). It may be simpe and plain but it's ideology nevertheless.

[Avanti]

The National Socialist German Workers Party, led by Adolf Hitler, was a totalitarian revolutionary leftist party. Here was their program:

avalon.law.yale(DOT)edu/imt/nsdappro.asp

Highlights: They took over the finances, nationalized healthcare, seized the car industry, stole companies, did away with private enterprise, etc.

11. That all unearned income, and all income that does not arise from work, be abolished.

12. Since every war imposes on the people fearful sacrifices in blood and treasure, all personal profit arising from the war must be regarded as treason to the people We therefore demand the total confiscation of all war profits.

13. We demand the nationalization of all trusts.

14. We demand profit-sharing in large industries.

17. We demand an agrarian reform in accordance with our national requirements, and the enactment of a law to expropriate the owners without compensation of any land needed for the common purpose. The abolition of ground rents, and the prohibition of all speculation in land.

18. We demand that ruthless war be waged against those who work to the injury of the common welfare. Traitors, usurers, profiteers, etc., are to be punished with death, regardless of creed or race.

20. In order to make it possible for every capable and industrious German to obtain higher education, and thus the opportunity to reach into positions of leadership, the State must assume the responsibility of organizing thoroughly the entire cultural system of the people.

21. The State has the duty to help raise the standard of national health by providing maternity welfare centers, by prohibiting juvenile labor, by increasing physical fitness through the introduction of compulsory games and gymnastics, and by the greatest possible encouragement of associations concerned with the physical education of the young.


Leftists can kill other leftists and still be leftist. This is undisputable.

"We are socialists, we are enemies of today’s capitalistic economic system for the exploitation of the economically weak, with its unfair salaries, with its unseemly evaluation of a human being according to wealth and property instead of responsibility and performance, and we are determined to destroy this system under all conditions”

- Adolf Hitler, Hitler’s speech on May 1, 1927. Cited in: Toland, John (1992). Adolf Hitler. Anchor Books. pp. 224–225

All of the Nazi’s economic policies were leftist. They supported running large deficits and using government programs to reduce unemployment. They also had government controlled wages and price fixing.

socialism

is not about

building

a great state

socialism

is about

destroying

all states

[prolcon]

Pretty sure more or less everyone in politics thinks they are doing that, no matter sociopathic or anti-human their point of view actually is.


Of course not. I mean that they thought they were doing what was in societies best interests, even though they were not. Hitler was ideological.

I disagree with the above, especially the latter quote. Hitler became a pawn of the German bourgeoisie pretty early in the game, I think, and he was aware of that.

[Ravachol]

http://thegallyblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/1271712426435.jpg

Also, I'm not a leftist.

[#FF0000]

http://thegallyblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/1271712426435.jpg

Also, I'm not a leftist.

shut the FUCK UP RAVACHOL


No I think a lot of politicians are described as "non-ideological" because their views perhaps change and their ideology is therefore hard to pin down. They don't have strong convictions or ideas. In other words, they don't care.

might actually be some truth here as much as i hate to agree with graffic ever. there are plenty of politicos who are politicos because it's good money and beneficial to whatever industry's interests they serve.

[A Revolutionary Tool]

What I find funny is the title of the thread is "What can convince you that the National Socialist German Worker's Party was wrong?"

Which is funny because you don't have to convince anybody here that they were wrong, we already know they were wrong, hence you get automatically banned if you say they were right. No need to convince anybody here of anything on the subject.

[GoddessCleoLover]

shut the FUCK UP RAVACHOL



might actually be some truth here as much as i hate to agree with graffic ever. there are plenty of politicos who are politicos because it's good money and beneficial to whatever industry's interests they serve.

With respect to "good money", Der Furrier collect quite a fortune in royalties from his overpriced, stream of consciousness hate-filled Mein Kampf. With respect to Mein Kampf, one has to concede that Hitler was to a certain extent ideologically-motivated. That ideology was sufficiently elastic, however, to be moulded to serve certain interests. The main drive of Hitler's policies, as outlined in Mein Kampf, was to rebuild Germany's military and use it to conquer and enslave the largely Slavic peoples of the east. IMO this scheme dovetailed nicely with Germany's big bourgeoisie, creating handsome profits from building this war machine to the prospect of super-profits that could be gained from exploiting the land to be conquered.

[Zeus the Moose]

No I think a lot of politicians are described as "non-ideological" because their views perhaps change and their ideology is therefore hard to pin down. They don't have strong convictions or ideas. In other words, they don't care.

So they're for the maintenance/continuation of the system they're in, which is arguably in the best interests of said system. It's "best interest" in a somewhat cold, material sense, and not the moralistic sense in the way most people generally mean the term, but I still think it fits.

[Yazman]

shut the FUCK UP RAVACHOL



might actually be some truth here as much as i hate to agree with graffic ever. there are plenty of politicos who are politicos because it's good money and beneficial to whatever industry's interests they serve.

Please don't tell other people to shut up, #FF0000. You're not allowed to do it and it can constitute flaming. I'm not punishing you for this one but don't do it again please!

[#FF0000]

i was jokin yazman don't worry <3

[Ravachol]

haha I thought that was obvious yeah, strictly speaking my post was off-topic meme bullshit but I didn't think this thread was serious tbh :p

[Luís Henrique]

What I like about RevLeft is that, when you guys do respond to trolls, and you always do, you're actually giving yourself the opportunity to articulate your thoughts with regards to fascism and where socialism is on the spectrum of political affiliation. OP isn't doesn't care about any of this information, so you may as well just enjoy the sport of reasoning.

You would be surprised by the amount of pixels that have been wasted in revleft around the idea that Strasserites were an actual leftist faction within the NSDAP.

Luís Henrique

[Luís Henrique]

We discussed this subject here (http://www.revleft.com/vb/why-nazis-hated-t112814/index.html?t=112814&highlight=enactment).


Here was their program:

Their program, oddly enough for fascists, started in #1, not in #11. It also went beyond #21, up to #25.

Evidently, the first ten, and the last four, programatic points are those that are more difficult to spin into anything else besides fascism. Anyway, all those points are demystified in the thread quoted above, particularly in this (http://www.revleft.com/vb/why-nazis-hated-t112814/index.html?p=1507740&highlight=enactment#post1507740) post.

Luís Henrique

[freehobo]

The Nazis only cared about Germans. And only "racially hygienic" ones at that.

[Prometeo liberado]

Yes price fixing, low unemployment, dead gypsies and tortured Marxist. That takes care of the under employed. Gov. programs building fun camps at Treblinka, Bergen-belson and Dachau among others. One ceases to be a lefty when his righty hand turns on the gas. Fucking godamn fun for all right? A lean government is easy to manage when you discard most of the population thru camps and war.

[Jason]

Naziism is some kind of reactionary attempt to salvage capitalism by blaming it's failure on Jewish influence and immigrants.

They do have an "army" sense of obligation to revolution like Communists. But thier revolution is only for "genetically fit" Germans.

Of course looking at similar right wing Latin American movements from the 50's to the 80s, we don't see a strong element of racism, but thier was a strong belief that ordinary people can "overcome" without Communism (perhaps by being more religious or something). It's similar to Fox News pushing the idea that "religion can change individuals and society".

[Comrade Lenin]

Fascism and Marxism were described as opposites by Benito Mussolini who was the founder of fascism and an ex-marxist at the time. Mostly because Fascism is "Everything in the state, nothing outside the state" whereas marxism is very subversive against the state. Marxism and Fascism are both extremely similar in some aspects and polar opposites for others.

[#FF0000]

Marxism and Fascism are both extremely similar in some aspects

What aspects are those?

[Jason]

What aspects are those?

They are similar because they are both "army like". Both philosophies want to change society and the people in society. One by promoting extreme nationalism and perhaps religion (as in Franco's state). The other by appealing to internationalism.

You could even argue that the Nation of Islam is fascist, in that it supports capitalism, and the betterment of a select group by promoting racism and religion. Generally speaking, people on RevLeft oppose fascism, because they oppose racism and sometimes religion.

[DasFapital]

Yes Hitler was such a committed anti-capitalist that he had the support of many conservatives and business leaders in the US and Western Europe.

[Flying Purple People Eater]

They are similar because they are both "army like". Both philosophies want to change society and the people in society. One by promoting extreme nationalism and perhaps religion (as in Franco's state). The other by appealing to internationalism.
Oh god, please don't get poisoned by that ridiculous horseshoe-theory bollocks.

Listen, If two completely different groups have international objectives, it does not make them similar in politics. This, like every other rotten slime of an idea that's poured out of the political spectrum as of late, has conceived itself to be a blanket term; It's a way to link something you dislike with an unrelated target that is very nasty so that whenever the subject you dislike is mentioned, people immediately connect the two in their heads.

This changing society nonsense can be applied to almost anything on the political spectrum; hence why it is political.


the activities associated with the governance of a country or area, especially the debate between parties having power.


You could even argue that the Nation of Islam is fascist, in that it supports capitalism, and the betterment of a select group by promoting racism and religion.
That's not what fascism means.

[#FF0000]

They are similar because they are both "army like".

Uhhhhhhhhhhh no, no I don't think so. Marx was hella critical of this sort of thinking for good reason.


Both philosophies want to change society and the people in society. One by promoting extreme nationalism and perhaps religion (as in Franco's state). The other by appealing to internationalism.


If you just said "both want to change the status quo" you would've been correct enough (but then again who doesn't want to change the status quo?), but then you went further and now I just think you're off base because socialists don't want to change society by appealing to internationalism.


You could even argue that the Nation of Islam is fascist

No, no I don't think so.


Generally speaking, people on RevLeft oppose fascism, because they oppose racism and sometimes religion.

Also because they oppose nationalism, class society, capitalism, and idealism and promote internationalism, the abolition of private property, privilege, and hierarchy, and take a materialist view of the world and history.

[YugoslavSocialist]

The National Socialist German Workers Party, led by Adolf Hitler, was a totalitarian revolutionary leftist party. Here was their program

The nazi party lied about being leftist simply to fool workers into voting for them. They were actully fascist capitalists. Watch this video to understand.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D2ZR9a_vvfk

and remember Both Hitler & Mussolini...
-Banned workers unions (the centerpiece of socialism)
-Banned strikes
-Subsidized big corporations & agribusiness
-Were anti-immigration
-Nationalists
-Banned truth (burned books and killed progressive college and university professors)
-Banned Communist, Socialist and Leftist organizations and killed there members

I recommend you read this book.
"Fascism and Big Business" by Daniel Guérin
http://www.marxists.org/history/etol/writers/guerin/1938/10/fascism.htm

[Jason]

and remember Both Hitler & Mussolini...
-Banned workers unions (the centerpiece of socialism)
-Banned strikes
-Subsidized big corporations & agribusiness
-Were anti-immigration
-Nationalists
-Banned truth (burned books and killed progressive college and university professors)
-Banned Communist, Socialist and Leftist organizations and killed there members

Fox News (fair and balanced) :lol:



Not this semantic bullfuckery yet again.


I guess we can just say Nazis are evil. No need for deep thought on the subject.

[PigmerikanMao]

*enters thread*
*sees dead horse severely beaten*
*leaves*

[Jason]

Sorry to be continuing this thread. But Nazis don't understand this fact: Immigration from the third world is used to pacify it. Otherwise, revolution would break out and it would threaten capitalist interests. Next, a communist Latin America would surface. Ironically, that would be a real theat to them. Imagine a Communist Mexico on the border with a "Ron Paul-ish" fascist America?

Anyhow, the populist ideas of Nazi Germany won't work on the world scene, because most of the world isn't white, and unless thier paid off then they get mighty angry. So throwing them out only makes them come back at your door 1000 times stronger.

[Manic Impressive]

and remember Both Hitler & Mussolini...
-Banned workers unions (the centerpiece of socialism)
-Banned strikes
-Were anti-immigration
-Nationalists
-Banned truth
-Banned Communist, Socialist and Leftist organizations and killed there members

Sounds just like the good ol' USSR :lol:

[Thirsty Crow]

Fascism isn't really based on particular economic policies. Fascism is more predicated on the glorification of sacraficial violence, the mysteriousness and unknowability of the world, the glorification of hierarchy et cetera. I'd guess that the first protofascist was de Maistre who polemicized against the French Revolution and prompted the Tsar to be even more authoritarian. Just because the Nazi party called itself a national socialist party doesn't mean it had anything to do with the socialism of Marx or the anarchists. Unless Carl Schmitt was some sort of crypto-Marxist now (*hint* he was not a crypto-Marxist *hint*)
That's an ahistorical approach to fascism, particularly evident in assessing a monarchist, pro-feudalist and aristocratic counter-revolutionary de Maistre as a fascist. It also betrays a very limited ideological approach (and even then your account is incomplete) because you're concerned only by certain ideological traits, disregarding the concrete practices of militarism, corporatism (destruction of independent workers' organizations and its integration into the state), support for large capitqalist enterprises and their merger with the war production organized by the state.

[Yazman]

MODERATOR ACTION:


Not this semantic bullfuckery yet again.

http://i.imgur.com/Xc9am.gif

Please don't make posts like this again. Image posts aren't really allowed here unless they contribute substantially to the topic. In this case, your post in its entirety contributes nothing of value at all, and earns you a warning.

Do it again and you'll be infracted.

This constitutes a warning to Vox Populi.

[Jason]

-Banned workers unions (the centerpiece of socialism)
-Banned strikes
-Were anti-immigration
-Nationalists
-Banned truth
-Banned Communist, Socialist and Leftist organizations and killed there members



Sounds just like the good ol' USSR :lol:

Perhaps Fox News is secretly Stalinist. :blink:

[Red Banana]

Imagine a Communist Mexico on the border with a "Ron Paul-ish" fascist America?

I'm afraid that's an imagination that will never materialize seeing as how socialism can't exist in one country.

[Baseball]

I'm afraid that's an imagination that will never materialize seeing as how socialism can't exist in one country.

Unfortunately, such a comment represents a lack of thought about socialism-- the reality remains that there needs to be an expectation that the "revolution" will not occur simultaneous and world wide; that there will be periods of times when a socialist community exists side by side a capitalist one. Claiming that the former cannot be because the latter still exists is an absurdity.

[Red Banana]

Unfortunately, such a comment represents a lack of thought about socialism-- the reality remains that there needs to be an expectation that the "revolution" will not occur simultaneous and world wide; that there will be periods of times when a socialist community exists side by side a capitalist one. Claiming that the former cannot be because the latter still exists is an absurdity.

I'm not talking about the revolution, which very well might not happen in every country all at once, but calling a spreading revolution "socialism" truly is an absurdity.

[Baseball]

I'm not talking about the revolution, which very well might not happen in every country all at once, but calling a spreading revolution "socialism" truly is an absurdity.

So what is the difference between a "spreading revolution" and a "revolution"?

[Red Banana]

So what is the difference between a "spreading revolution" and a "revolution"?

What? I didn't say there was one, I said there was a difference between a spreading revolution and socialism. Much like Capital, if a revolution isn't growing, it's dying.