Amsterdam to create 'scum villages'

[Comrade #138672]

This is insane.


Amsterdam is to create "Scum villages" where nuisance neighbours and anti-social tenants will be exiled from the city and rehoused in caravans or containers with "minimal services" under constant police supervision.

Holland's capital already has a special hit squad of municipal officials to identify the worst offenders for a compulsory six month course in how to behave.
Social housing problem families or tenants who do not show an improvement or refuse to go to the special units face eviction and homelessness.

Eberhard van der Laan, Amsterdam's Labour mayor, has tabled the £810,000 plan to tackle 13,000 complaints of anti-social behaviour every year. He complained that long-term harassment often leads to law abiding tenants, rather than their nuisance neighbours, being driven out.

"This is the world turned upside down," the mayor said at the weekend.
The project also involves setting up a special hotline and system for victims to report their problems to the authorities.

The new punishment housing camps have been dubbed "scum villages" because the plan echoes a proposal from Geert Wilders, the leader of a populist Dutch Right-wing party, for special units to deal with persistent troublemakers.

"Repeat offenders should be forcibly removed from their neighbourhood and sent to a village for scum," he suggested last year. "Put all the trash together."
Whilst denying that the new projects would be punishment camps for "scum", a spokesman for the city mayor stressed that the special residential units would aim to enforce good behaviour.

"The aim is not to reward people who behave badly with a new five-room home with a south-facing garden. This is supposed to be a deterrent," he said.
The tough approach taken by Mr van der Laan appears to jar with Amsterdam's famous tolerance for prostitution and soft drugs but reflects hardening attitudes to routine anti-social behaviour that falls short of criminality.

There are already several small-scale trial projects in the Netherlands, including in Amsterdam, where 10 shipping container homes have been set aside for persistent offenders, living under 24-hour supervision from social workers and police.
Under the new policy, from January next year, victims will no longer have to move to escape their tormentors, who will be moved to the new units.
A team of district "harassment directors" have already been appointed to spot signals of problems and to gather reports of nuisance tenants.

The Dutch Parool newspaper observed that the policy was not a new one. In the 19th century, troublemakers were moved to special villages in Drenthe and Overijssel outside Amsterdam. The villages were rarely successful, becoming sink estates for the lawless.
"We have learned from the past," said the mayor's spokesman. "A neighbourhood can deal with one problem family but if there are more the situation escalates."Source: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/netherlands/9719247/Amsterdam-to-create-scum-villages.html

[Sperm-Doll Setsuna]

lol what the fuck, I want to believe the Teleshit is making this up.

[Comrade #138672]

lol what the fuck, I want to believe the Teleshit is making this up.No. It's reality, I'm afraid.

[l'Enfermé]

Hahahahha, I actually like the concept, but I don't think they'll pull it off properly.

[Questionable]

How do they define "scum"? Is it whoever gets the most calls complaining about them? Is there any kind of due process or are they whisked away at night without any warning?

[bad ideas actualised by alcohol]

How do they define "scum"? Is it whoever gets the most calls complaining about them? Is there any kind of due process or are they whisked away at night without any warning?

I assume anyone who isn't white.

[The Garbage Disposal Unit]

Hahahahha, I actually like the concept, but I don't think they'll pull it off properly.

Wait, what?
Concentration camps are great when done properly?
Like, you realize, by definition, that's what this is, right?

[Questionable]

I assume anyone who isn't white.

That's horrible, but I feel some sick, perverse pleasure out of the Netherlands, that great paradise that liberals and social-democrats love to wank over, slowly turning fascist.

[bad ideas actualised by alcohol]

Wait, what?
Concentration camps are great when done properly?
Like, you realize, by definition, that's what this is, right?

Not really.

[bad ideas actualised by alcohol]

That's horrible, but I feel some sick, perverse pleasure out of the Netherlands, that great paradise that liberals and social-democrats love to wank over, slowly turning fascist.

I don't because, well, I prefer not to live in a fascist nation.
That would kind of blow.

[xvzc]

The Netherlands bourgeoisie is creating its own grave digger by throwing the broad and often criminalized underclass into one place... Kind of like prisons often produce the best and most committed revolutionaries.

[Sasha]

while this is in some details a pretty fucked up plan its not nearly as bad as the telegraph is making it, first of all "tuig" doesnt translate properly as scum, its more akin to thug maybe chav, secondly amsterdam doesnt call it tuigdorpen, its a term wilders came up with recently while amsterdam is already experimenting for years with what is called in every day life "aso-woningen" which would translate more as anti-social-housing, it are a few bungalow houses in industrial area's mostly used for alcoholics/drug-addicts, psychiatric patients and multiple-problem families who terrorize their neighbours where ever they are moved but who are not enough danger to themselves or their neighboors to be forcibly hospitalized or imprisoned, a program they now want to expand.
now dont get me wrong, it pretty shitty concept and a sad reflection of times and hits only the poor but its a pretty dick move to criticize from countries where these kind of people would just be made homeless (US and most of the rest of the world) or dumped into the poorest ghetto with a big fuck you to the "normal" poor people already living there (UK, france etc). At least under dutch social housing laws the state has both to supply a house somewhere to these people and protect the living conditions of every person rich or poor (somewhat of course, but its still better than in most countries), until we fix society this sadly might be the best solution.
and sorry but the person who said that this would apply to "anyone not white" is an idiot, esp considering he is dutch himself and thus should know better, these are mostly (but not all) poor whites from families with severe multiple problems (drug abuse, psychiatric conditions, sexual abuse, severe street criminality) or what you ML's so kindly would call "lumpen" but is here called "tokkies", a detorgary name of a family from hell that terrorised their neighboorhood into almost civil war and got the honor of giving name to the most common word of what be called in the US probably rednecks and in the UK chavs, now i know most of you would, given the power, advocate shooting them or putting them into slave-camps so i dont really get why you are all getting so worked up over this...
leave us to deal with this and our law and order asshole mayor as most of you would be even worse and accept even worse from your governments.

[/end-rant]

[Yuppie Grinder]

Hahahahha, I actually like the concept, but I don't think they'll pull it off properly.

Oh god. Please tell me you're joking.

[Ravachol]

I'm not surprised scum like L'enferme like this concept. But they're not 'concentration camps'.

The concept is as follows: those who are 'known' and/or registered 'anti-social' elements within a neighborhood (for not paying rent and utility bills on time for prolonged periods, causing 'disturbances' in the form of loud noise/graffiti/etc, being involved in growing pot, etc.) are to be put in designated zones under constant surveillance in order to 'normalize' their behavior.

What this means in practice is that large swathes of immigrants and certain sections of the white/native working class will bear the brunt of this. Especially since many of those are involved in a combination of precarious labor (as building contractors, for example) and the illegal sector (growing pot and selling it to coffee shops) whilst it is most of their youth who hang out in those neighborhoods spraying graffiti and playing music from their bikes and what not.

Now there sure are behaviors among the identified 'anti-social acts' that I'm not fond of either (neighbor infighting, intimidation of fellow residents, whatever) but what is interesting/frightening is how this type of operation functions. Not unlike the UK's Anti-Social Behavior Act (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-social_Behaviour_Act_2003), operations like these introduce a degree of micro-surveillance in daily life to an extent unknown before. When those who, for whatever reasons, deviate from the norm (which we all know would definitely include militancy, squatting, autoreduction (ie. refusing to pay utility bills or rent), 'proletarian shopping' and targeting law enforcement officers)) are put under a strict regiment of surveillance and discipline, it only serves to normalize, ie.: to recalibrate all elements of society towards the norm. The norm being defined as the 'ideal' subject of the state, the productive, unquestioning, loyal worker-citizen.

The UK's ASBO included such acts as:



arson
begging
Drug dealing/consumption of controlled recreational drugs
drunken behaviour
fare evasion
intimidation
loitering
stealing/mugging/shoplifting
urban exploration
vandalism/criminal damage


Among these acts there are perfectly innocent ones (begging, consumption of drugs, loitering, urban exploration, drunken behavior) and ones that are easily applied to proletarian militancy (arson, fare evasion, intimidation of landlords and cops, shoplifting, vandalism of state property) as well as more diffuse 'anti-social' behavior.

Zoning off sections of the population and creating easily-identifiable spatial regions serves the needs of power to lay a sort of 'color-coded' map over the city of what type of policy to apply in what region, ie.: violent repression in the 'red districts'/scum villages, CCTV surveillance and 'anti-radicalisation programmes' in the 'yellow districts', etc., etc. It aids power in identifying hotbeds of 'deviancy' (of whatever type) and smoothens its grip on the social fabric.

[Ravachol]

while this is in some details a pretty fucked up plan its not nearly as bad as the telegraph is making it, first of all "tuig" doesnt translate properly as scum, its more akin to thug maybe chav, secondly amsterdam doesnt call it tuigdorpen, its a term wilders came up with recently while amsterdam is already experimenting for years with what is called in every day life "aso-woningen" which would translate more as anti-social-housing, it are a few bungalow houses in industrial area's mostly used for alcoholics/drug-addicts, psychiatric patients and multiple-problem families who terrorize their neighbours where ever they are moved but who are not enough danger to themselves or their neighboors to be forcibly hospitalized or imprisoned, a program they now want to expand.
now dont get me wrong, it pretty shitty concept and a sad reflection of times and hits only the poor but its a pretty dick move to criticize from countries where these kind of people would just be made homeless (US and most of the rest of the world) or dumped into the poorest ghetto with a big fuck you to the "normal" poor people already living there (UK, france etc). At least under dutch social housing laws the state has both to supply a house somewhere to these people and protect the living conditions of every person rich or poor (somewhat of course, but its still better than in most countries), until we fix society this sadly might be the best solution.
and sorry but the person who said that this would apply to "anyone not white" is an idiot, esp considering he is dutch himself and thus should know better, these are mostly (but not all) poor whites from families with severe multiple problems (drug abuse, psychiatric conditions, sexual abuse, severe street criminality) or what you ML's so kindly would call "lumpen" but is here called "tokkies", a detorgary name of a family from hell that terrorised their neighboorhood into almost civil war and got the honor of giving name to the most common word of what be called in the US probably rednecks and in the UK chavs, now i know most of you would, given the power, advocate shooting them or putting them into slave-camps so i dont really get why you are all getting so worked up over this...
leave us to deal with this and our law and order asshole mayor as most of you would be even worse and accept even worse from your governments.

[/end-rant]


While this is all true psycho it does fit in a large strategy and we all know policies like those aren't there just for a few 'tokkies' and won't just be (see post above). Besides, anyone advocating this in order to create a society where people 'get along' is plainly insane, its nothing but the desperate attempt of a social order that has long since outlived its ability to string together a fragmented humanity.

And appropriate quote would be:



Society no longer exists, at least in the sense of a differentiated whole. There is only a tangle of norms and mechanisms through which THEY hold together the scattered tatters of the global biopolitical fabric, through which THEY prevent its violent disintegration. Empire is the administrator of this desolation, the supreme manager of a process of listless implosion

[Sasha]

this is by the way what the houses look like;
http://bin.ilsemedia.nl/m/m1cyt3rw8bk0.jpg

its inspired by a danish project called skaeve huse; http://www.tempohousing.com/projects/skaeve-huse.html

[l'Enfermé]

Wait, what?
Concentration camps are great when done properly?
Like, you realize, by definition, that's what this is, right?
It's nothing like concentration camps.

I'm just very amused by the notion of exiling annoying neighbors, given that I've been plagued by such fuckfaces so many times. Just imagine the government announced that it will send all the assholes who talk loudly and don't shut the fuck up in the cinemas to the moon? That would give me an incredible feeling of satisfaction.

[Sasha]

While this is all true psycho it does fit in a large strategy and we all know policies like those aren't there just for a few 'tokkies' and won't just be (see post above). Besides, anyone advocating this in order to create a society where people 'get along' is plainly insane, its nothing but the desperate attempt of a social order that has long since outlived its ability to string together a fragmented humanity.

And appropriate quote would be:


oh, yeah, i know what this will probably end up like given the powers that be half the chance but its not nearly as bad yet as its portrayed to be, first of all i live above a terror-neighbor myself doing everything from dumping garbage on peoples doorstep, threatening all the little kids, my girlfriend& all other women and all dogs including mine with physical harm in the block, gluing peoples locks shut, destroying peoples stuff, assaults etc etc. the "social" housingcorperation get a complaint about him about every day and he gets arrested at least once a month yet they still cant evict him so i dont think it will go that fast, and yes i think segregation with forced professional supervision would be best for him in current society, most of all for him as one of these days one of the neighboors is going to hospitalize or kill him.

[Sperm-Doll Setsuna]

this is by the way what the houses look like;
http://bin.ilsemedia.nl/m/m1cyt3rw8bk0.jpg

its inspired by a danish project called skaeve huse; http://www.tempohousing.com/projects/skaeve-huse.html


Looks better than the redevelopment shit they pulled in Bijlmermeer... which isn't say much. Post-modern architecture is a fucking abomination.

[Let's Get Free]

Exiling people with "anti-social" behavior sounds like something a fascist regime intolerant of dissent would do.

[Ravachol]

oh, yeah, i know what this will probably end up like given the powers that be half the chance but its not nearly as bad yet as its portrayed to be


I agree, but that does not mean it doesn't fit within the broader social tendency towards such zoning policies.



first of all i live above a terror-neighbor myself doing everything from dumping garbage on peoples doorstep, threatening all the little kids, my girlfriend& all other women and all dogs including mine with physical harm in the block, gluing peoples locks shut, destroying peoples stuff, assaults etc etc. the "social" housingcorperation get a complaint about him about every day and he gets arrested at least once a month yet they still cant evict him so i dont think it will go that fast,


I lived in a squat for some time close to a neighbor like that too and some people very close to me have similar problems, so I'm not downplaying the fact that there are genuine assholes around (if you ask me, a shit society like this produces an excessive amount of shit people, some of them beyond saving maybe but who knows).



and yes i think segregation with forced professional supervision would be best for him in current society, most of all for him as one of these days one of the neighboors is going to hospitalize or kill him.

If the latter would bear no repercussions, I would greatly prefer that. In the same way I prefer rape victims kneecapping a rapist to an extension of the police apparatus leeching onto such a phenomenon. Such an option might not be completely 'realistic' given the repercussions it often entails but the very real problems we encounter in society (often as a product of that same society) should never prevent us from criticizing empire's extension and solidification upon those very pretexts. Its the same logic that applauds the spread of CCTV cams in order to 'protect seniors', that amasses large DNA databases to 'prevent rape', that rails against immigrants and muslims to 'defend homosexuals', etc.

I mean ideally society would not produce such people (or mitigate their formation) and sub-ideally, neighbors would band together and kick his face in. I would shed no tears for someone like this to be shipped off, but that's a different thing than giving the green light on policy such as this (which i'm not saying you're doing btw, I'm just talking in general). Besides, even within the context of this system, I'm really skeptical what this does. People like the guy you describe are the product of particular conditions and when its someone from the upper layers of society, therapy, a cocaine addiction and powertripping in some corporate boardroom cover up his defects well enough. When its someone with a different background, however, these conditions are strengthened and the outlet looks different. Removing individual cases will not stop the phenomenon anymore than an infinite extension of the police will stop rape.

[Sasha]

exiling, exiling, we are talking amsterdam remember, even dumping them straight on the "gemeente" line, the farthest they could go, would still mean a max 45 minute bike ride to damsquare, 20 minutes by public transport, french banilues or english estates take a twice as long travel to the city center. again, its a pretty fucked up way to have to deal with society's ills but we are not shipping people to an penal colony in the pacific here

[bricolage]

exiling, exiling, we are talking amsterdam remember, even dumping them straight on the "gemeente" line, the farthest they could go, would still mean a max 45 minute bike ride to damsquare, 20 minutes by public transport, french banilues or english estates take a twice as long travel to the city center. again, its a pretty fucked up way to have to deal with society's ills but we are not shipping people to an penal colony in the pacific here
there are estates in zone 1. they aren't a homogenous thing.

[Ravachol]

exiling, exiling, we are talking amsterdam remember, even dumping them straight on the "gemeente" line, the farthest they could go, would still mean a max 45 minute bike ride to damsquare, 20 minutes by public transport, french banilues or english estates take a twice as long travel to the city center. again, its a pretty fucked up way to have to deal with society's ills but we are not shipping people to an penal colony in the pacific here

No I know and I agree the article is sensationalist. But that is not my main concern, my main concern is how the expansion of 'Empire' (to use a catch-all term) often rides on the back of genuine concerns and I don't think its sensationalist or doubtful at all to say that this is an isolated (perhaps over-represented) example of a general tendency towards ever-deeper and ever-broader control, identification and 'cybernetic' readjustment within late-capitalist society. A tendency that really worries me and that's not gonna stop at assholes proper either. Today's 'tokkie' is tomorrow's maladjusted youth and next month's radicalized youngster.

[Sasha]

It was directed at the person above you, we posted at the same time, i do agree with you in principle but its pretty difficult, I honesty don't know what I would do if I was in charge. Can't shoot them, cant imprison them, but I'm not even sure a revolution can "cure" them all, best to take care of them, help then but protect the community too.

[ed miliband]

It's nothing like concentration camps.

I'm just very amused by the notion of exiling annoying neighbors, given that I've been plagued by such fuckfaces so many times. Just imagine the government announced that it will send all the assholes who talk loudly and don't shut the fuck up in the cinemas to the moon? That would give me an incredible feeling of satisfaction.

mate, i've been "plagued" by neighbours having parties 'til 8am for most of my life. don't have your attitude. sort it out.

[Yuppie Grinder]

l'Enferme, who wants to ban all drugs and agrees with DNZ on slave labor camps under the DotP. Why the fuck are you even on this website?

[Flying Purple People Eater]

l'Enferme, who wants to ban all drugs and agrees with DNZ on slave labor camps under the DotP. Why the fuck are you even on this website?
When did he argue for this?

[ed miliband]

he also wants to band alcohol and tobacco, the nutter.

[Yuppie Grinder]

When did he argue for this?

In the revisionist faux leftist traitor group he said all true socialists should want to abolish drug use.

[hetz]

mate, i've been "plagued" by neighbours having parties 'til 8am for most of my lifeI had that problem too, except that I dealt with it so that I could have my peace and quiet. If you want to party till 8 AM, great, go to some club, but you don't have the right to disturb your neighbours.

[piet11111]

I am actually somewhat supportive of this idea.

Reason is that one of the examples given as justification of this plan was a case where a gay couple where forced to move and sell their home at a loss because of 1 neighbor that was constantly harassing them with threats among other things.

What is more important ? to protect the people who did nothing wrong from such a jerk or the rights of that jerk to stay in his home ?

And just FYI the term hooligan is also from a family name just like tokkie.

[brigadista]

i dont know about the netherlands but I wouldnt be surprised if this idea comes over to the UK to be enforced by this crackpot gov,

I agree about ASBOS and the stupid "good behaviour"areas during the olympics ...cosmetic stuff to ease the fears of the home counties ..

however the new housing legislation will do a similar thing- eg recently sending homeless families out of london to areas where they know nobody and giving them no choice-
see http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2012/nov/04/london-boroughs-housing-families-outside-capital
opening the way for gentrification of london

no surprise that problems are ramping up with the cuts in social services, mental health support services and welfare benefits -

plus the economic destruction of working class communities and blame on the individual rather than seeing these problems as a social responsibility and as a result of alienating grinding poverty -



fucking disgusting

[hetz]

Yet, it is in the interest of the people living in a certain neighbourhood to organize and at least try to keep criminals and delinquents out, to stop them ruining things even further.
There are many such examples or workers organizing to defend their areas against hooligans.

[brigadista]

Yet, it is in the interest of the people living in a certain neighbourhood to organize and at least try to keep criminals and delinquents out, to stop them ruining things even further.
There are many such examples or workers organizing to defend their areas against hooligans.

this is NOT what i meant :)

[Danielle Ni Dhighe]

leave us to deal with this and our law and order asshole mayor as most of you would be even worse and accept even worse from your governments.
"You can't criticize this because you wouldn't criticize this or worse in your own country." :rolleyes:

[Ravachol]

What is more important ? to protect the people who did nothing wrong from such a jerk or the rights of that jerk to stay in his home ?


Read what I posted ffs

[Avanti]

and where do

they exile

people

from the

scum villages?

[Anarchocommunaltoad]

and where do they exile people from the scum villages?


You're welcome

[Myrdin]

It is true indeed, I fear.

To me this constitutes a shameful, populistic display of authority indicating little more than a true lack thereof. One must not exile criminals to the far reaches of society, one must punish them harshly indeed, however, sending them to these 'tuigdorpen' will not yield favorable results. One must isolate criminals from other such individuals without isolating them from the 'good' parts of society.

Putting them together with only one another to depend on would, and surely will be, entirely counterproductive as the stigma's associated with living in such projects will mark these individuals for life.

Personally, I would favor resettling them(breaking up the group, so to speak) all over the country.

I am dissapointed in mister van der Laan for choosing the side of mister Wilders in fighting crime with populist rantings.

[ckaihatsu]

Post-modern architecture is a fucking abomination.


True.





[W]e are not shipping people to an penal colony in the pacific here


"Hello, Australia -- ?"


= D





I had that problem too, except that I dealt with it so that I could have my peace and quiet. If you want to party till 8 AM, great, go to some club, but you don't have the right to disturb your neighbours.


In a communist society everything about daily life would blend together in a human-societal-organic-soup kind of way, to where partying and working, and anything else, could hardly be distinguished -- by choice. 'Disturbing' would no longer be comprehensible as a concept, since ice-cream-and-sundaes and all that.... Your "8 AM" would be meaningful only to astronomers.


= )

[RedMaterialist]

I was reading some comments on the Netherlands new site Dutchnews.dl. Several of the comments had to do with women wearing haqueebs (?) and morrocon kids eating kabob.

Someone in Amsterdam should post pictures of the people involved so we can see what is going on. Is it really white Dutch racists and brown Arabs? Obviously that is the case with Wilders.