Winter: Moving to the countryside to cut firewood

[cyu]

The sociological question of our times: What percentage of the population is dumb enough to accept extinction?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/nov/28/greeks-forests-fuel-winter-nears/print

"Things are getting desperate," says Chadziathanasiou, who clothed Greek celebrities before he moved to the countryside. "You hear all the time of people illegally clearing forests for firewood. It's horrible if you're a green like me."

Like most middle class Europeans raised in cities, nature is a new world and one that does not come naturally to them. Until last year, both enjoyed successful careers in fashion and architecture. "There was never a euro left over. We didn't think we could afford to go through another winter in Athens."

"We thought if we try this out, living in a little stone house, we might be able to make ends meet. I'm not used to chopping firewood and my body aches but then doing it this way we only spend €300 on heating our home."

After first felling pensioners and low-income workers, Greece's great economic crisis is now destroying the middle class. After relentless waves of austerity and tax rises that have seen their purchasing power drop by up to 50%, even doctors and lawyers are feeling the pinch, with many saying they cannot afford the 40% surcharge the government has slapped on heating oil.

suicides have soared, with the public order minister saying that 3,100 people had taken their own lives since the onset of the crisis in a country that in 2009 had the lowest suicide rate in the EU.

malaria, officially eliminated 40 years ago, had also made a comeback

schools and hospitals staff complain they not only do not have the money to heat classrooms and wards but even to purchase painkillers

People who once lived decently have seen their wages drop by 80%.

the older generation has begun pawning heirlooms and jewellery to get through the winter.

"The further downward pressure on the middle class, to the point of disappearance, will radicalise it. And in so doing it will bring it closer to Syriza, the only realistic alternative to immediately end austerity."

extremism on left and right has risen, with the neo-Nazi Golden Dawn now the third biggest party with 12% in the polls.

"I am concerned that everyone is angry and that somehow this anger can be channelled in the wrong direction. I am worried about nazism, yes."

"All our friends have gone to England and Holland mostly. We could easily go to New York where I'd often attend shows and have lots of contacts but we want to give it a go here. Greece is a beautiful country even if our politicians have destroyed it. Come back in a year and see if we have survived."

[Philosophos]

"Things are getting desperate," says Chadziathanasiou, who clothed Greek celebrities before he moved to the countryside. "You hear all the time of people illegally clearing forests for firewood. It's horrible if you're a green like me."

If you are green like me.... He's one of the most stupid fucks I've seen in a while. I suppose he has money and he can afford petrol and gas that's why he's still "greeeeen"... Why doesn't he ask the rest of the Greek people who can't afford these "luxuries" of how they can find another way to heat their homes? Wood is the only untaxed thing (it's going to get a tax too I'm god damn sure) so yeah I don't give a fuck if I cut trees because I WANT TO SURVIVE! Oh and if he wants to stop pollution he can say to all these rich guys to stop traveling with their cars that burn for one trip the gasoline that I burn for my lifetime and he can also tell them that they shouldn't go trips with their boats that burn the gasoline of 10 people's lifetime. Oh and we have factories, nuclear shit all over the place... Why doesn't he talk to them first and then talk to the people that want to live their lives without thinking their are at the fucking ice age....

[Ocean Seal]

Pretty much any energy source used worldwide is pretty harmful to the environment.
lol greens gonna green

[l'Enfermé]

I, for one, won't miss the middle class.

"The further downward pressure on the middle class, to the point of disappearance, will radicalise it. And in so doing it will bring it closer to Syriza, the only realistic alternative to immediately end austerity."

Aye, SYRIZA, the revolutionary party of middle-class anti-austerity :lol:

[GoddessCleoLover]

Neither SYRIZA nor the KKE seem to be in a position to offer revolutionary leadership. This vacuum apparently is facilitating the rise of the Golden Dawn. If this trend continues it might be necessary for SYRIZA and KKE to join forces as part of a United Front Against Fascism.

[TheRedAnarchist23]

Does winter get THAT cold there? Here all you need are some warm clothes to be protected from the cold.

[GoddessCleoLover]

Greece is a mountainous country.

[Philosophos]

Aye, SYRIZA, the revolutionary party of middle-class anti-austerity :lol:

That made my night :lol:

[piet11111]

If this trend continues it might be necessary for SYRIZA and KKE to join forces as part of a United Front Against Fascism.

I expect the KKE and the golden dawn to divide poland between themselves before the KKE drops its sectarianism.

[Yet_Another_Boring_Marxist]

Neither SYRIZA nor the KKE seem to be in a position to offer revolutionary leadership. This vacuum apparently is facilitating the rise of the Golden Dawn. If this trend continues it might be necessary for SYRIZA and KKE to join forces as part of a United Front Against Fascism.

With the "revisionists"? I'd think they'd prefer fascism than any communism other than their own.

[GoddessCleoLover]

Sometimes I forget that the main branch of SYRIZA came out of the old interior/exterior split in the KKE as well as the second split in the early 90s. I imagine that Ms. Paparigas and her followers regard their former "comrades" as traitors. I wonder if Syriza would even reach out to the KKE given what I can imagine is the level of animosity between them?

[TheRedAnarchist23]

Greece is a mountainous country.

Portugal is a mountanous country, but you don't see me turning on the old electric heater. It is 12ºC right now.

[Philosophos]

Portugal is a mountanous country, but you don't see me turning on the old electric heater. It is 12ºC right now.


You are closer to Africa does this tell you something?

[Philosophos]

Sometimes I forget that the main branch of SYRIZA came out of the old interior/exterior split in the KKE as well as the second split in the early 90s. I imagine that Ms. Paparigas and her followers regard their former "comrades" as traitors. I wonder if Syriza would even reach out to the KKE given what I can imagine is the level of animosity between them?

KKE thinks that SYRIZA is a joke because they are not communists anymore. Everybody in the left (that are not SYRIZA because yes we have leftish people that are SYRIZA :thumbdown:) believe that SYRIZA is going to become the new PASOK (the social-democratic party that fucked up Greece with New Democracythe right wing party) if it hasn't been already.

At the same time SYRIZA says that it supports the middle class (sometimes they remember the working class and they mention to it I can't lie about it) and that it is an anti-austerity party.... Well correct me if I'm wrong but Tsipras (the president of SYRIZA) once said that IMF and the EU are not our bosses and that they are going to play by our rules otherwise he's going to ripp off the MEMORANDUM that has bonded us. When Mr Tsipras saw that he suddenly became the second party he kinda shit his pants and changed his views: "Well I've never actually implied that I'm going to cancel the agreement completely and blah blah blah blaaaaaah".

So I don't blame KKE that doesn't want to cooparate with SYRIZA (that doesn't mean I'm really much into KKE too)

[GoddessCleoLover]

Thanks. I am an American and didn't realize the Tsipras had been such a renegade.

[Raúl Duke]

overthrow it all already...
it sound that capitalism has utterly failed in Greece

[Philosophos]

overthrow it all already...
it sound that capitalism has utterly failed in Greece

Trust me I WANT TO OVERTHROW it but I can't do it by myself. The working class here in Greece has some excelent examples of left people that fight daily for the rights of workers' but they lack at something (there a few exceptions ofcourse). They lack the will to talk in simple words about how things are and make people understand communism, capitalism and finally get class consious just like KKE does.

That's the thing, people hear from Papariga or other leftish people words that they can't find in their every day life so how can they identify their ideas with the left ideology? I am a communist yes but I was very curious by my nature that's why I started looking for communism. There are people out there that have absolutely no idea of what communism is.

The only good example that I can recall right now about talking in simple terms and words about communism and giving the best examples for people to understand is Liana Kaneli one of the greatest members of KKE (I'm talking about the way she talks not the rest of her political practise).
Kaneli speaks very nicely and gives people to understand what needs to be done to overthrow this capitalistic rape on us. Whoever says that he doesn't agree with her ideology (communistic ideology and workers' friendly ofcourse) is a GD, LA.O.S or any other far right wing fuck or someone that thinks communism is the worst thing after Satan. The rest people that they even might not be much into politics think that she's right at everything she says (about how the big guys get all the money and why we should stop this, about the workers, about human rights etc).

Anyway I'm got a little off but the thing is that in Greece there is no revolution because of the people that are in charge for bringing communism. When Aris Velouchiotis was fighting against fascists he got so many uneducated people with him, religious people (something that is pretty much impossible today) even fanatical right wings because he was
1. fighting, 2. a very good speaker and 3. because he was close to the people (way of talking and the rest). We can't overthrow capitalism already because of these reasons. It's not as easy as you think...

[Raúl Duke]

I agree with you that a lot of the Left's problem has to do with presentation and that the current way of presentation/etc has been so ingrained in an insular "milleu" way (much of the left's "presentation" is more towards attracting other activists and/or "pro-rev" ideologue type people into their own insular organization/etc rather than just making regular people be open, without commitment to an organization or to activism, to 1)anti-capitalism and 2) the idea that capitalism may have just run its course, as in it has nothing but misery and declining social and living standards for all the regular people which is quite obvious in the Greek case and steadily becoming the case in other areas of the world).

It's not even a problem sole to the radical/revolutionary left but even to those ambiguous progressive (or not, some where libertarians...a few where conspiracy theorists) "I wanna change the world" activist types, which is the example of presentation I've mostly seen in person while at the short-lived Occupy in my area (short-lived because all the "professional activist" types seemed to all have the bottom-line of influencing everyone to think exactly like them and to make them activists as well, when in reality most normal people don't care, don't have time, etc for the usual activism that is mostly done by progressives and even leftists which basically boils down to waving signs and being ineffective because these regular people, who aren't "brain-washed" with activist platitudes/mentality, see it as a waste of time. Over time, all the regular people abandoned Occupy the moment it became obvious it was just another activist front of waving signs and not really changing jack-shit or even making the "powers that be" afraid of popular anger.)

[Os Cangaceiros]

This is what wikipedia has to say about Greek temperatures:



Abs. minimum temperature: −27.8 °C (−18.0 °F), Ptolemaida (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ptolemaida).
Abs. maximum temperature: 48.0 °C (118.4 °F), Elefsina (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elefsina) and Tatoi (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tatoi).

Τhe +48.0 °C (118.40 °F) recorded by minimum/maximum thermometers in Tatoi (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tatoi) and Elefsina (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elefsina) as reported by a communication of Dr. Athanasios D. Sarantopoulos is also the WMO record high temperature for Greece and Europe.[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climate_of_Greece#cite_note-2) Average annual temperature in Greece ranges from +10 to +19.7 °C (50 to 67 °F). However, since Greece is generally a mountainous country, real average temperatures vary considerably from region to region.

50 degrees fahrenheit?! That's practically tropical!

Up in the mountains it probably gets lower, but probably not much lower than 0 degrees, and people sleep in unheated cabins up here in temps that low, you just got to get yourself a really warm sleeping bag. ;)

[Philosophos]

I agree with you that a lot of the Left's problem has to do with presentation and that the current way of presentation/etc has been so ingrained in an insular "milleu" way (much of the left's "presentation" is more towards attracting other activists and/or "pro-rev" ideologue type people into their own insular organization/etc rather than just making regular people be open, without commitment to an organization or to activism, to 1)anti-capitalism and 2) the idea that capitalism may have just run its course, as in it has nothing but misery and declining social and living standards for all the regular people which is quite obvious in the Greek case and steadily becoming the case in other areas of the world).

It's not even a problem sole to the radical/revolutionary left but even to those ambiguous progressive (or not, some where libertarians...a few where conspiracy theorists) "I wanna change the world" activist types, which is the example of presentation I've mostly seen in person while at the short-lived Occupy in my area (short-lived because all the "professional activist" types seemed to all have the bottom-line of influencing everyone to think exactly like them and to make them activists as well, when in reality most normal people don't care, don't have time, etc for the usual activism that is mostly done by progressives and even leftists which basically boils down to waving signs and being ineffective because these regular people, who aren't "brain-washed" with activist platitudes/mentality, see it as a waste of time. Over time, all the regular people abandoned Occupy the moment it became obvious it was just another activist front of waving signs and not really changing jack-shit or even making the "powers that be" afraid of popular anger.)

exactly

[cyu]

you just got to get yourself a really warm sleeping bag


...and sleep in the bedroom of your unfriendly neighborhood capitalist...

http://www.tunisiecomex.com/commun/images/atlas/climat/en/climat_grece.gif

http://www2m.biglobe.ne.jp/~ZenTech/English/Climate/Greece/Temperature_Graph/Athens.gif

[TheRedAnarchist23]

The lowest temperature recorded in Portugal was -10ºC, and the highest was 50.5ºC.