counterfeit revolutionaries

[Avanti]

those

who say

we should

aim

to be peaceful

aim

to compromise

not

"dehumanize"

our babylonian overlords

be sensitive

invoking godwin

invoking the charter

of human rights

i don't think

don't think

they are

real

they are really

revolutionaries

you trust them

when you stand there

in the smoke

as the grenades

fall around you

when the police horses

are trampling down

your comrades

when the batons

are raining down

your body

you think

these people

would stand there

next to you?

theories aside

what really matters

is

are you ready

to be beaten

to be killed

or to kill

for you comrade

to the left of you?

if you aren't

you aren't

a real

revolutionary

no matter

what you think

[Rafiq]

We also shouldn't trust new age quasi conspiracy theorist scum either.

Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk 2

[Avanti]

you cannot

even trust

yourself

trust is earned

by action

not by words

the revolution

begins

inside

your heart

[GiantMonkeyMan]

The whole new paragraph for every word thing... I don't know if you're trying to prove or represent something by posting in such a structure. It's irritating whatever the reason.

[Yuppie Grinder]

If you look past Avanti's posting format you might find you agree with some of what she has to say. This was a good post, for instance.

[Permanent Revolutionary]

Well, they're essentially poems, which makes it hit or miss for me.

However, this one was pretty damn good.

[GiantMonkeyMan]

If you look past Avanti's posting format you might find you agree with some of what she has to say. This was a good post, for instance.
Yes but when I read it in my head it sounds like Captain Kirk pontificating about poetry. D:

[Avanti]

Yes but when I read it in my head it sounds like Captain Kirk pontificating about poetry. D:

that means

it's having an

effect

[Rugged Collectivist]

"Hey guys, I know someone always brings this up, but I'm going to anyway. Doesn't it annoy you how Avanti writes one word paragraphs! I mean, we all know this, and pointing it out is just a waste of Rugged Collectivist's time, but it's so annoying OMG"

[freethinker]

Avanti

sometimes

she is

absurd

yet

she

makes me

wonder

if she

is the only

one

standing above

the incceset argument

and endless

constant

discord

She is committed

What

of

us?

[LeftLibertarian]

Seriously how can you be so paranoid and untrusting? For communism to work you must trust your fellow worker, it is an inherently co-operative system.

I am not willing to die for revolution. We have one life, I will not waste it dying for the sake of violence.

Nor am i willing to kill soldiers who are coerced into a violent existence by social propaganda and state pressure.

We should not kill our fellow worker, regardless of what side they are on, or we are no better than the state we are trying to overthrow.

[Avanti]

Seriously how can you be so paranoid and untrusting? For communism to work you must trust your fellow worker, it is an inherently co-operative system.

I am not willing to die for revolution. We have one life, I will not waste it dying for the sake of violence.

Nor am i willing to kill soldiers who are coerced into a violent existence by social propaganda and state pressure.

We should not kill our fellow worker, regardless of what side they are on, or we are no better than the state we are trying to overthrow.

see you

in the

fema

concentration camp

seriously

paranoia

is necessary

amongst

revolutionaries

all successful

revolutionary leaders

have been

super-paranoid

[LeftLibertarian]

FEMA? LOL... Okay then. :laugh:

[kashkin]

Not wanting to kill someone does not make them a counterfeit revolutionary. Having a bloodlust isn't necessarily good. Also, FEMA camps? Seriously? There are many things which the US can be criticised for, lets stick to the real ones.

[TheCat'sHat]

The ruling class is composed of human being. To 'dehumanize' them is just propaganda. It also makes it easy to lose sight of the corrupting influence of power on otherwise decent people. I know individuals who are important people in DC who are in the Special Forces who are in Finance and consulting and work for Goldman Sachs. They aren't sociopaths. They're decent people. Who do they do the things they do? Because the dehumanize and abstract other people. Bad institutions make decent people do bad things. You can dehumanize them if you want. They're evil and you're good. Fine. But you're just setting yourself up to take their place and be just as bad.

[Haunter]

You're polarizing the options.
It is possible that a small scale revolution occurs peacefuly and spreads without the use of *much* violence.
WW3 doesn't have to erupt for the revolution to take place.
In fact, although this idea sounds very noble, war today is much different and more dangerous than it ever has been. Not just for me, the soldier, but for the innocents we are trying to protect as well. For the entire planet. War is a dangerous thing.
The elitists won't go down without a fight, I know that. But jumping the gun is the perfect excuse for them to make a mockery of the revolution and paint is as violent and evil, as they have in the past.
I think the revolution must start peacefully, and war is the answer if it fails.
But we should exaust all the other options first.
And that does not mean that I'm not willing to fight for a revolution. That means that I don't want people to needlessly DIE for a revolution.

[GoddessCleoLover]

TheCat'sHat raises a question worthy of deep consideration. I have posted elsewhere that we run the risk of corrupting ourselves when we glorify violence. Food for thought.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

If we dehumanise anyone, then we're no better than the bourgeois we're seeking to abolish. A lot of the ruling classes are pure scum, but in dealing with them we must bring them to account for their actions in as public a manner as possible. Their typical crimes are of such magnitude that it will be easy to acquire the weight of evidence to bear against them.

As for the rest, if they don't resist proletarian takeover and haven't done anything requiring redress (for example, the children of the bourgeoisie), then we should do no more than keep a close eye on them.

The point is to establish a more humane kind of society, right? So we should act accordingly. This doesn't mean workers shouldn't defend themselves or their interests, but it does mean we need to judicious in our use of violence.

[prolcon]

Hasn't revolution historically been pretty violent? Because when I think of socialist revolution, I think there are going to be some guns.

[GoddessCleoLover]

The distinction I draw is between necessary violence and the glorification of violence. Glorifying violence tends to lead to excess. i want to avoid uncontrolled and excessive violence. Some violence may be necessary, but there is no need to glorify it.

[prolcon]

Isn't there, though? How else do you make violence palatable to a human being outside of pure rage?

[GoddessCleoLover]

Pure rage is sufficient. Revolutions by their very nature stir up enough of that. Glorification of violence in a non-revolutionary is only self-gratifying and we ought not "gratify" ourselves that way.

[prolcon]

Pure rage is sufficient. Revolutions by their very nature stir up enough of that. Glorification of violence in a non-revolutionary is only self-gratifying and we ought not "gratify" ourselves that way.

Pure rage, huh? I've got enough of that for South America. We could be in Rio by sundown.

[GoddessCleoLover]

Save it for the revolution. In non-revolutionary times revolutionary rage usually leads to burn-out. Trust me. Been there. Done that. Tee shirts were unavailable.:D

[black magick hustla]

i doubt the op has ever picked up a gun. nothing screams more of a weenie than violent posturing in the internet

[Flying Purple People Eater]

i doubt the op has ever picked up a gun. nothing screams more of a weenie than violent posturing in the internet
http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/27994823.jpg

[black magick hustla]

http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/27994823.jpg

i wish

[Green Girl]

We also shouldn't trust new age quasi conspiracy theorist scum either.


It depends on what you call conspiracy. The capitalists like to demean that word so workers don't investigate what they are up to. The illuminati, The Bilderbergers, The Trilateral Commission, The Council on Foreign Relations are real organizations in power for only ONE reason to keep the world safe for CAPITALISM.

In addition the USA government are notorious liars, this is why my ancestors the Cherokee said "White man speakth with forked tongue" because the USA government has broken every treaty it has ever had with the American Indians. And we all know how American politicians lie.

For every conspiracy that sounds wacko, there are two that are quite real. Just like everything in life one has to separate truth from lies.

“Allow me to issue and control the money of a nation, and I care not who writes the laws.” - Mayer Amschel Rothschild, 1828

The Rothschilds are said to own half the world's wealth and half of its Gold and they got all of this mostly from centuries of compounded interest and fractional banking. The only way to eliminate their power is to eliminate money, and that is just another reason communism must be worldwide.

"For more than a century ideological extremists at either end of the political spectrum have seized upon well-publicized incidents such as my encounter with Castro to attack the Rockefeller family for the inordinate influence they claim we wield over American political and economic institutions. Some even believe we are part of a secret cabal working against the best interests of the United States, characterizing my family and me as ‘internationalists’ and of conspiring with others around the world to build a more integrated global political and economic structure – one world, if you will. If that’s the charge, I stand guilty, and I am proud of it." - David Rockefeller, from his own book, Memoirs.

In short most of these so-called conspiracies are CAPITALIST designed to keep the wealthy elite in power and keep most of the world's wealth in their hands. Thus we have to defeat them and expose them in order to have a true worker's paradise. The illuminati will fight us tooth and nail.

[Green Girl]

those

who say

we should

aim

to be peaceful

aim

to compromise

not

"dehumanize"

our babylonian overlords

be sensitive

invoking godwin

invoking the charter

of human rights

i don't think

don't think

they are

real

they are really

revolutionaries

you trust them

when you stand there

in the smoke

as the grenades

fall around you

when the police horses

are trampling down

your comrades

when the batons

are raining down

your body

you think

these people

would stand there

next to you?

theories aside

what really matters

is

are you ready

to be beaten

to be killed

or to kill

for you comrade

to the left of you?

if you aren't

you aren't

a real

revolutionary

no matter

what you think

Not my first choice but I think it will come to that.

What I don't understand is why the Communist Party USA supported Obama for President (unless they know something we don't) The republicans call him communist and based on his actions (so far) he is right-wing. Maybe he will surprise us in his last year 2016 and nationalize all banks and industries and guarantee jobs for all, turn Obamacare into single-layer universal health care, etc.. If he did that he would justify the Communist Party USA's support, I'm not holding my breath though.

Like you, I think it will come down to hand-to-hand combat as nothing seems to ever be easy in this life.

Viva la Revolution!

[black magick hustla]

It depends on what you call conspiracy. The capitalists like to demean that word so workers don't investigate what they are up to. The illuminati, The Bilderbergers, The Trilateral Commission, The Council on Foreign Relations are real organizations in power for only ONE reason to keep the world safe for CAPITALISM.


there is no need for "keeping the world save for capitalism". capitalism is a social relationship perpetuated by everyone. unless ur trolling cuz' i kinda think u are otherwise you are like the most stereotypical postergirl of conspriationist nuttery i've seen in the board

[Green Girl]

there is no need for "keeping the world safe for capitalism". capitalism is a social relationship perpetuated by everyone.

The capitalists are very well organized and have been since the birth of the illuminati in the 1760's.

These are NOT conspiracies but real organizations that the rich and powerful capitalists belong to. They organize and currently control the world as a group. It will not be easy for the workers to wrestle control from them, but we have right on our side.

David Rockefeller admits to being a member of the illuminati in the quote I excerpted from his own book, Memoirs and directing world events for the benefit of the capitalists.

Were it not for the capitalist's compound interest and fractional banking, the Rothschilds would not own half of the world's wealth and no one would have ever heard of them.

Make no mistake to beat the Capitalists we have to tear down the organizations they belong to.

Many workers belong to Unions, yet when any one shows what organizations that capitalists belong to it is considered a conspiracy theory? Why? When the government lies and someone reveals the truth, it is considered a conspiracy theory? Again Why?

I will tell you why, the misuse of the term conspiracy theory by the capitalists is to keep workers from finding out what they are up to.

[Will Scarlet]

Seriously how can you be so paranoid and untrusting? For communism to work you must trust your fellow worker, it is an inherently co-operative system.

I am not willing to die for revolution. We have one life, I will not waste it dying for the sake of violence.

Nor am i willing to kill soldiers who are coerced into a violent existence by social propaganda and state pressure.

We should not kill our fellow worker, regardless of what side they are on, or we are no better than the state we are trying to overthrow.
Soldiers are not 'our fellow worker', many soldiers come from working class backgrounds and due to all the various disadvantages that entials the army is one of the better options available to them, and that is a problem. But if they are fighting in a capitalist army how can they be part of the proletariat? In the event of a revolution they could only be a 'fellow worker' by defecting to the revolution. If not then you may be unwilling to kill them but they won't show the same compunction.

Some people has to risk their lives for a revolution to happen, that is just the reality of it. Or to put it another way:

Revolution

is

not

a

dinner party

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

The Rothschilds are said to own half the world's wealth and half of its Gold and they got all of this mostly from centuries of compounded interest and fractional banking.

Yeah, it's said by anti-semitic headcases.


The illuminati will fight us tooth and nail.

The Illuminati were bunch of anti-monarchist Bavarians. They no longer exist.


The capitalists are very well organized and have been since the birth of the illuminati in the 1760's.

These are NOT conspiracies but real organizations that the rich and powerful capitalists belong to. They organize and currently control the world as a group. It will not be easy for the workers to wrestle control from them, but we have right on our side.

If they're so organised and in control, then why are we in an economic depression? Things like that are bad for the bourgeoisie as well, you know.


David Rockefeller admits to being a member of the illuminati in the quote I excerpted from his own book, Memoirs and directing world events for the benefit of the capitalists.

I'm pretty sure Mr Rockefeller is aware of all the lunatics writing feverishly garish webpages accusing him of being an extra-dimensional Jewish lizard from Babylon who wants to eat us all. How do you know he wasn't lying or twisting the facts in order to tweak the noses of that kind of loon?


Were it not for the capitalist's compound interest and fractional banking, the Rothschilds would not own half of the world's wealth and no one would have ever heard of them.

So now you've gone from "the Rothschilds are said" to own half the world's wealth to just stating outright that they do.

You might feel more at home over at Stormfront. We're not big on anti-semitic conspiracy theories.


Make no mistake to beat the Capitalists we have to tear down the organizations they belong to.

Many workers belong to Unions, yet when any one shows what organizations that capitalists belong to it is considered a conspiracy theory? Why?

Because the big leap is to assume that the bourgeoisie are all marching lock-step in the same direction with the same goals. It's like thinking the Teamsters are part of a global communist conspiracy.


When the government lies and someone reveals the truth, it is considered a conspiracy theory? Again Why?

It depends who's doing the revealing, don't you think?


I will tell you why, the misuse of the term conspiracy theory by the capitalists is to keep workers from finding out what they are up to.

Bullshit. The capitalists have wealth and power, they don't need to fuck around with all that conspiracy bullshit. And neither do we.

[Avanti]

i doubt the op has ever picked up a gun. nothing screams more of a weenie than violent posturing in the internet

that's true

never picked up a gun

have used

baseball bats

knives

axes

spraycans on fire

knuckle-dusters

iron pipes

fire extinguishers

stones

screwdrivers

hammers

i am pretty small

so my preferred

tactic

is to hit

from behind

silent

like the phantom

first time

i injured

another human being

was when i was 11

and hit

a classmate

in the head

with

a baseball bat

i've also beaten a nazi

so he was left

on a beach

bleeding from his mouth

heard

a few years later

that he was

paralysed

and had diapers

but nazis

deserve

to sit

in their own shit

[TheCat'sHat]

Why did you do that to the Nazi, Avanti?

[TheCat'sHat]

I think the glorification of violence is sick. I'm not a pacifist. I know Bosniaks who picked up guns to fight the Bosnian Serb Army. I think they made the right decision. But That was a case of real self-defense. But a lot of people seem to be advocating violence for the sake of violence which is fascist. I also don't believe that proactive violence is effective or moral but that's another story.

[Flying Purple People Eater]

that's true

never picked up a gun

have used

baseball bats

knives

axes

spraycans on fire

knuckle-dusters

iron pipes

fire extinguishers

stones

screwdrivers

hammers

i am pretty small

so my preferred

tactic

is to hit

from behind

silent

like the phantom

first time

i injured

another human being

was when i was 11

and hit

a classmate

in the head

with

a baseball bat

i've also beaten a nazi

so he was left

on a beach

bleeding from his mouth

heard

a few years later

that he was

paralysed

and had diapers

but nazis

deserve

to sit

in their own shit

This is why I stay away from individualists. Shiiiiiit.

[Green Girl]

Yeah, it's said by anti-semitic headcases..

Calling anti-illuminati workers anti-semitic is VERY wrong. This is the same mistake Adolf Hitler made when he accused Jews of destroying the German economy when in reality it was the illuminati just because a few more prominent members happened to have Jewish surnames. This in no way makes it a Jewish organization!!

There are many Jewish members of the working class. I myself am English, Irish, French, Jewish, Black Dutch and Cherokee Indian and have studied the Jewish religion and I'm very INSULTED that you would equate the CAPITALIST ILLUMINATI as a Jewish organization, it is not, it is an organization of the corporate elite, which includes many nationalities.


The illuminati were bunch of anti-monarchist Bavarians. They no longer exist.

Yes, they do exist and they are the most dangerous CAPITALIST organizations. The current illuminati organizations include but are not limited to: The Bilderbergers, The Trilateral Commission and The Council on Foreign Relations.


If they're so organised and in control, then why are we in an economic depression? Things like that are bad for the bourgeoisie as well, you know.

The great depression was orchestrated by the illuminati and banking interests to steal wealth from the working class. The great depression was a great wealth creator for the very wealthy as they bought land, homes and businesses for pennies on the dollar. The workers suffered as did the smaller capitalists who were heavily invested into the stock market, but the highest level of the capitalist elite didn't care, as they considered it acceptable suffering so they could reach their goals, especially since the illuminati has great disdain for the working class and lower-level capitalists.

Inflation is another way the rich steal from the poor as the cost of their products keep going up, while wages stagnate and the "real value" of workers wages keeps going down. In addition a poor economy for workers is a boon from the capitalists. For example in the 1960's average CEO wages were 20 times the average Union wage, today CEO wages are 320 times the average Union wage.


I'm pretty sure Mr Rockefeller is aware of all the lunatics writing feverishly garish webpages accusing him of being an extra-dimensional Jewish lizard from Babylon who wants to eat us all. How do you know he wasn't lying or twisting the facts in order to tweak the noses of that kind of loon?

I disagree, it was one of the few times he was actually truthful.


So now you've gone from "the Rothschilds are said" to own half the world's wealth to just stating outright that they do.

I do believe this quote and I have a YouTube on my website "Wake Up Earth" that tours the Rothschild's vast holdings. And it is just one of many such videos and articles on the web. Prior to the internet most of this was hidden from the people of the Earth, except for a few organizations who kept abreast of activities. I have been actively studying the activities of the Illuminati since 1978.


You might feel more at home over at Stormfront. We're not big on anti-semitic conspiracy theories.

I checked out Stormfront, it's a f*cking white supremacist group, I have no doubt they are anti-semitic but I doubt they are anti-capitalist or anti-illuminati!!

If one is ANTI-CAPITALIST by definition one is ANTI-ILLUMINATI, however it does not follow that anyone would be anti-semitic, that is an idiotic comparison. As I said above just because there are some Jewish members of the illuminati does make an anti-illuminati person also anti-semitic!!


Because the big leap is to assume that the bourgeoisie are all marching lock-step in the same direction with the same goals. It's like thinking the Teamsters are part of a global communist conspiracy.

The illuminati are the "invisible hand" of most capitalists governments, only the elite of the corporate and political world are chosen to be a member of the illuminati groups (The Bilderbergers, The Trilateral Commission, The Council on Foreign Relations and others). Since the assassination of JFK all USA presidents have been illuminati members except Ronald Reagan however his Vice President George Bush was a member. They rule not only the economic world but the every country they have acquired the power in. The illuminati is capitalism at its worse.


It depends who's doing the revealing, don't you think?

Yes, in time you learn which sources to trust, however even if the truth seeker doesn't always get the details totally correct. The one thing that is revealed over time is the government makes up cover stories to hide what really happened that they are unable keep secret. In fact it is very hard to catch the USA government ever telling the truth.


Bullshit. The capitalists have wealth and power, they don't need to fuck around with all that conspiracy bullshit. And neither do we.

I'm calling bullshit on your bullshit. Because if the majority of the workers knew what the illuminati were doing to make their life more miserable we would have already had a workers revolution!! This is why the illuminati: The Bilderbergers, The Trilateral Commission, The Council on Foreign Relations and the corporate elite meet in private because it DOESN'T want the workers of the world nor the governments of the world to know what they are doing until their protocols are completed. They work together to direct the economy's and the nation's under its control.

To discredit and insure their secrets stay secret they misuse of the term conspiracy theory so that anyone who finds out what they are up to are made fun of. It is quite genius.

Make no mistake we not only have to defeat the capitalist system and their powerful organizations including the illuminati, but the capitalists must join the working class or be assassinated.

[Avanti]

Why did you do that to the Nazi, Avanti?

because

he was

a nazi

[Jimmie Higgins]

Calling anti-illuminati workers anti-semitic is VERY wrong. This is the same mistake Adolf Hitler made when he accused Jews of destroying the German economy when in reality it was the illuminati just because a few more prominent members happened to have Jewish surnames. This in no way makes it a Jewish organization!!

The great depression was orchestrated by the illuminati and banking interests to steal wealth from the working class. The great depression was a great wealth creator for the very wealthy as they bought land, homes and businesses for pennies on the dollar. The workers suffered as did the smaller capitalists who were heavily invested into the stock market, but the highest level of the capitalist elite didn't care, as they considered it acceptable suffering so they could reach their goals, especially since the illuminati has great disdain for the working class and lower-level capitalists.
Irregardless to the existance or non-existance of secrect organizations of capitalists, the events you describe here were all the result of the mechanisms of capitalism itself. The big fish eat the little fish and this is accelerated in crisis where wealth can't be invested in production to make money, so large firms just sit on their wealth until the weaker ones begin to fail; they buy up the floundering ones and usually just shut them down and fire workers so that production remains low until investments and increasing production becomes profitable again.

We know of overt attempts to take advantage of such things and books like "Shock Doctrine" go through how neoliberals take advantage of crisis to change laws to their advantage. It would seem to me that capitalists get along pretty well organizing all this realitivly openly, though they rearely broadcast these things except in economic think tanks and elite publications.


I'm calling bullshit on your bullshit. Because if the majority of the workers knew what the illuminati were doing to make their life more miserable we would have already had a workers revolution!! This is why the illuminati: The Bilderbergers, The Trilateral Commission, The Council on Foreign Relations and the corporate elite meet in private because it DOESN'T want the workers of the world nor the governments of the world to know what they are doing until their protocols are completed. They work together to direct the economy's and the nation's under its control.I think this is the crux of the attraction to the idea that there are these organizations. If people knew about them, there'd be revolutions; for 9/11 conspircacists, if people knew the conspiracy then they wouldn't buy the lies about the war. Well without arguing if these things are real or not, I don't think this is how consiousness works. What could be more damning than a lot of the information we know. What could be more damning than insurance companies conspiring to make sure that their profits trump public health; what's more damning than what we know about the tobbacco companies; what could be more damning than Ford's anti-semitism; what could be more damning than companies supporting the NAZIs; what could be more damning than the war profiteering that is open knowledge; what could be more damning than just being a worker and being ripped off and having your life controlled on a daily basis?

Frankly I do not believe in many of the arguements of conspiracy theories. For one thing, among some versions of these arguments there is an underlying assumption that if it were not for this elite group, then capitalism would work "properly" and the system would be more fair and just.

For another, if I did believe that these groups were operating in this manner, I don't think it would make one difference to what the system fundamentally is and what regular people need to do in order to have a better world. I believe there are certaintly things we don't know about; I believe that elietes definately conspire; I also know they have their own networks and organizations for promoting ideas or just networking and back-slapping. Much of this is known, or has come out.

Third, I don't think the elietes need this much. Capitalists often organized secret groups as capitalism began to rise - it was to help organize their power while they still weren't the undisputed ruling class. Now they are and they can just do business and have back-room meetings and so on - there's no need for such secret groups when you have the IMF and the US government and whatnot.

And finally, knowledge that capitalism is bad, is not going to create a worker's movement by itself. Most of the time on some level, people know this - but most of the time they make their peace with it because what else is there and you'll go crazy worrying about things "that you can't change". But then in periods of crisis and class struggle, it's possible to mobilize and fight-back and then the scandals and abuses that are brushed off with a shrug in "calm times" are outrages and spurr on the movements. But the movement and the class struggle is the missing pice, not knowledge about capitalist wrongdoings and deceptions.

[khad]

Counterfeit? You mean types like the multi-millionaires in OWS's general assembly (I know of at least one, but there are probably others). Definitely not living up to the maxim of "from each according to ability."

[Rafiq]

It depends on what you call conspiracy. The capitalists like to demean that word so workers don't investigate what they are up to. The illuminati, The Bilderbergers, The Trilateral Commission, The Council on Foreign Relations are real organizations in power for only ONE reason to keep the world safe for CAPITALISM.

In addition the USA government are notorious liars, this is why my ancestors the Cherokee said "White man speakth with forked tongue" because the USA government has broken every treaty it has ever had with the American Indians. And we all know how American politicians lie.

For every conspiracy that sounds wacko, there are two that are quite real. Just like everything in life one has to separate truth from lies.

Oh christ! I thought we ban scum like you!

Capitalism is not a conspiracy, as a matter of fact, this whole conception of a "conspiracy" itself is nothing short of one of the variants of Idealism. This notion that there is a conscious being, an entity, "controlling" capitalism, i.e. preceding capitalist social relations and material conditions not only bears the mark of the logic of anti semitism, not only is it an invalid assertion, it is one of the greatest verifications of the rampant Idealism that plagues the Left. Material conditions precede will. Capitalist social (class) relations precede the decisions of men. While I will not doubt that the bourgeois state (on a subconscious level, sometimes even on a conscious level) protects the interests of the bourgeois class and aims to sustain the dictatorship of the bourgeoisie, there is no entity outside of the bourgeois state that 'manages' the process of capital accumulation. Capitalism is a very complex and dynamic process and to reduce all of it to the will of a few powerful men is laughable. You're a moralist scum is all. You expect members of the bourgeois state to be "honest, ethical (fucking gross) individuals" and when you discover that indeed it does not exist to preserve "freedom" and whatever ideological rhetoric which substantiates the bourgeois class you go apeshit. It reminds me of how some leftists found out about the fact that the war in Libya wasn't about 'freedom' or 'democracy' and were so surprised. It really signifies a lot about the ideological pressuposions of some users here... The Illuminati doesn't exist. Bilderbergs are just another cool kids rich people club (and I know that for a fact, mind you). Of all of the things I've seen on this godforsaken site, this is truly a unique case. No, not the most ridiculous thing I've seen, but this, this is definitely up there. Christ get the fuck out of here, you're obviously not a revolutionary communist, you're a petite bourgeois moralist and a cinematic-romanticist.


“Allow me to issue and control the money of a nation, and I care not who writes the laws.” - Mayer Amschel Rothschild, 1828


LOL


In fact, that famous quote from Nathan Rothschild about "controlling the British money supply" turns out to be a fabrication. I found no original source for the quote at all, though it's repeated in dozens of conspiracy books and on tens of thousands of conspiracy websites. I did a thorough search of all available newspaper archives from Nathan's lifetime, and had some friends check various university library systems. No such quote appears in the academic literature. After such a thorough search, I feel confident stating that he never made such a statement.

But the quote doesn't appear to be completely made up by the conspiracy theorists. It's most likely a revised and restyled version of this quote attributed to Nathan's father, the original Mayer Rothschild:

Give me control of a Nation's money supply, and I care not who makes its laws.

But like the longer, more specific quote from Nathan, even this one turns out to be apocryphal. Author G. Edward Griffin did manage to track it down, though. He found that this saying was:

Quoted by Senator Robert L. Owen, former Chairman of the Senate Committee on Banking and Currency and one of the sponsors of the Federal Reserve Act, National Economy and the Banking System, (Washington, D.C.: U.S. Government Printing Office, 1939), p. 99. This quotation could not be verified in a primary reference work. However, when one considers the life and accomplishments of the elder Rothschild, there can be little doubt that this sentiment was, in fact, his outlook and guiding principle.

And this is certainly true. In Rothschild's day, before banking regulation and antitrust laws existed, it was indeed possible for small groups to gain controlling interests in enough financial institutions that it could be argued that they "controlled" a nation's money supply. Evidently the Senator made up the quote to support whatever speech he was making, and attributed it to a famous name to give it some clout.


Conspiracy theorists ALWAYS, somewhere along the line simply make shit up, or take things out of context. This is EXACTLY how the protocols of zion was written, the quotes were not 100% fake (some of them were) but were taken out of context, reworded and so on.


The Rothschilds are said to own half the world's wealth and half of its Gold and they got all of this mostly from centuries of compounded interest and fractional banking. The only way to eliminate their power is to eliminate money, and that is just another reason communism must be worldwide.


Is this why we have so many users here who have an anti money fetish? Because they think that "money" makes the world go round, not the systemic processes which enable it's existence? Nevermind that.

Onto your assertion. From the same article:


Some claim the Rothschilds own half the world's wealth. If they do, it's only in the same way that you do. Anyone with an interest-bearing bank account owns shares in whatever funds their bank invests in. Those funds own shares in other funds and public companies, and so on. At some level, virtually every financial entity owns, and is owned by, any other entity, in every country. It's exactly like the degrees of Kevin Bacon. The notion that anyone could "control the world's finances" is ludicrous.

There is no longer any such thing as a monolithic House of Rothschild with connections to any significant number of all the scores of today's independent Rothschild business ventures. The closest thing is Rothschilds Continuation Holdings AG, a Swiss company that manages interests in many Rothschild-founded institutions. There are no longer any Rothschild family members on its board (the last having retired in 2011), though about eight Rothschilds are believed to own stakes in it (like many holding companies, it's privately held, so its records are not public). Its other owners include Rabobank and Hong Kong based Jardine Matheson Holdings. The Rothschild funds it manages now focus on mergers and acquisitions. Make no mistake, it's a large and successful company; but with billions in assets, it's a relatively small fish in the sea of world financial institutions with trillions in assets, including Deutsche Bank, Mitsubishi UFJ Financial Group, HSBC Holdings, BNP Paribas, Japan Post Bank, Crédit Agricole Group, Barclays PLC, Industrial & Commercial Bank of China, Royal Bank of Scotland Group, JP Morgan Chase & Co., and many others. Anyone trying to point the finger at the scattered Rothschilds as "controlling" world banks has an awfully tall order. That little factoid is about 100 years out of date.


In the face of several other capitalist entities the Rothchild's are overwhelmingly insignificant.


"For more than a century ideological extremists at either end of the political spectrum have seized upon well-publicized incidents such as my encounter with Castro to attack the Rockefeller family for the inordinate influence they claim we wield over American political and economic institutions. Some even believe we are part of a secret cabal working against the best interests of the United States, characterizing my family and me as ‘internationalists’ and of conspiring with others around the world to build a more integrated global political and economic structure – one world, if you will. If that’s the charge, I stand guilty, and I am proud of it." - David Rockefeller, from his own book, Memoirs.


And David later admitted this was a half truth, mostly to provoke stupid fucks like you. But anyway, he does admit that he has nothing against to build a more integrated global political and economic structure – one world, if you will. Just the romantic pipedreams of a bourgeois liberal. Again, the Rothschilds are NOT a monolithic entity and nothing David sais can amount to the "interests" of said fictional entity.


In short most of these so-called conspiracies are CAPITALIST designed to keep the wealthy elite in power and keep most of the world's wealth in their hands. Thus we have to defeat them and expose them in order to have a true worker's paradise. The illuminati will fight us tooth and nail.

Go fuck yourself. I suppose you're going to say Lenin was a member of the illuminati? Christ, there is nothing worse than conspiracy theories. They are literally a religion in themselves. We are not fighting for a paradise. We are fighting (lol wtf? I'm not fighting right now, neither are you especially not you. I'm sitting on my ass on the computer right now) for the emancipation of the proletarian class and the destruction of capitalist social relations, not the preservation of traditions which are being intruded by big bad "internationalist" banks. And the Rothschilds can't adhere to nationalist dogma because when they were coerced into existence they had no nation. They came from Jewish slums. It's no wonder someone like david would have romanticist liberal fantasies of a unified world. The theories are indeed capitalist, actually, speaking of conscious intention, banking conspiracy theories were literally designed by members of the bourgeois class in order to estabilish class collaboration. It mystifies me why you are on this site, as we Communists are the greatest victim of conspiracy theories. You like to knit and pick which ones you like. The theories which proclaim the Communists as "instruments of the banks" are just as 'credible' as the shit you adhere to (and when I say that, I mean they have no credibility). The only reason anti semitic conspiracy theories existed was to attack the Communists. The only reason banking (illuminati) conspiracy theorists existed was to attack the Communists. First Beeth, now you. You know where this ends, right? You know where this logic ends, no? Reptilians.

This forum is in need of a great purge leveled against conspiracy theorists. I am so sick of their shit. They don't even belong in OI.

[Rafiq]

Irregardless to the existance or non-existance of secrect organizations of capitalists, the events you describe here were all the result of the mechanisms of capitalism itself.

No, Jimmie, no no no. Don't grant this creature an inch of her absurd argument. As Marxists we understand there are no secret organizations of capitalists "controlling" everything. The international capitalist class is taken just as surprise as the rest of is in the developments of the capitalist mode of production. The organs of bourgeois dictatorship can respond to conditions created from capitalism, they cannot create them intentionally. There is no conspiracy. The most "powerful man" on earth is just as subject to the material forces existent as any other. Do not concede more than a hundred years of developed theory, theoretical strength regarding the nature of human social behavior because of the incoherent ramblings of what BMH describes as a "nutcase".

[Rafiq]

Seriously how can you be so paranoid and untrusting? For communism to work you must trust your fellow worker, it is an inherently co-operative system.

What is this communism you speak of?


I am not willing to die for revolution. We have one life, I will not waste it dying for the sake of violence.


Dying for the sake of violence? Violence is a means to the conquest of state dictatorship. I don't care if you're not wiling to die, nobody needs your ass anyway. It's understandable if people are not ready to die (I don't know if I am) but to say it in such an abstract sense signifies how seriously you take revolutionary communism. For you it's some abstract utopia we must "achieve" or "create".


Nor am i willing to kill soldiers who are coerced into a violent existence by social propaganda and state pressure.


The bolsheviks didn't kill because they thought their enemies (White army soldiers, a lot of them poor peasants) were immoral. They didn't kill because "well they personally deserve it". They didn't kill because some kind of moral criticism sufficed. They killed because they were willing to do all that was necessary to protect the revolution and the proletarian dictatorship, and although it's unfortunate some had to die who weren't "immoral" enough for you, it was necessary to protect the revolution. As Communits we don't need to apologize to anyone.


We should not kill our fellow worker, regardless of what side they are on, or we are no better than the state we are trying to overthrow.


What the hell? This is just a moral declaration. I don't care what you think we "should" or "should not" do. We are talking about what is necessary. The material conditions existent during a revolution are not the refelction of your will, the situation is not a manifestation of what you want it to be. Many will have to die. We can smell flowers with our heads up our ass and achieve nothing except the satisfaction of bourgeois-moral fortitude. Pacifism and Utopianism are counter revolutionary. Actually, you yourself are a counter revolutionary. You have no place in the revolution.

[Avanti]

it is not

a matter

of conspiracy theories

or not

it is

a matter

of us being mentally

castrated

by the system

by the system of Babylon

turned

into robots

into zombies

broken away

from our

humanity

[Rafiq]

In terms of worth humans are no different from robots, our brains, no different from a mere computer (besides of course being more complex) but the essence of a human, is no more mystifying than that of a robot. Humans are nothing short of self-managing automata. This is our "humanity", Avanti. Our Humanity amounts to our mode of organisation and our social relations to each other, not some 'eternal' spirit or what have you.

[Avanti]

In terms of worth humans are no different from robots, our brains, no different from a mere computer (besides of course being more complex) but the essence of a human, is no more mystifying than that of a robot. Humans are nothing short of self-managing automata. This is our "humanity", Avanti. Our Humanity amounts to our mode of organisation and our social relations to each other, not some 'eternal' spirit or what have you.

what is human

is our passion

our mysticism

or ability

to create meaning

our irrationality

machines are rational

humans are irrational

humans should be irrational

humans should be idealistic

should love

should become angry

should cry

should do stupid things

this current society

breeds

docile sheeple

to be led

into the consumer-producer cycle

you make stuff

you get shinies

for making stuff

so you

can buy stuff

and most want stuff

because

you are conditioned

by media

by peer pressure

to get stuff

the more stuff

the happier you get

for many communists

it seems about

distributing stuff more equally

i say

let's

destroy stuff

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

Calling anti-illuminati workers anti-semitic is VERY wrong. This is the same mistake Adolf Hitler made when he accused Jews of destroying the German economy when in reality it was the illuminati just because a few more prominent members happened to have Jewish surnames. This in no way makes it a Jewish organization!!

There are many Jewish members of the working class. I myself am English, Irish, French, Jewish, Black Dutch and Cherokee Indian and have studied the Jewish religion and I'm very INSULTED that you would equate the CAPITALIST ILLUMINATI as a Jewish organization, it is not, it is an organization of the corporate elite, which includes many nationalities.

Doesn't matter if you happen to think "oh, they're not really Jewish" - by promoting all this Rothschilds bullcrap, you're helping to spread antisemitic ideas whether you think you are or not.

The ideas and structures of conspiracy bullshit bear a disturbing resemblance to that found in the hoax document Protocols of the Elders of Zion. Read it and substitute the words "Jew" "Zion" "Jewish" and "Zionist" with terms appropriate to Illuminati/conspiracy bullshit and try telling me it don't fit.


Yes, they do exist and they are the most dangerous CAPITALIST organizations. The current illuminati organizations include but are not limited to: The Bilderbergers, The Trilateral Commission and The Council on Foreign Relations.

Can you actually prove all this? With actual evidence, not the shit-smeared scribblings of racist conspiracy nuts?


The great depression was orchestrated by the illuminati and banking interests to steal wealth from the working class. The great depression was a great wealth creator for the very wealthy as they bought land, homes and businesses for pennies on the dollar. The workers suffered as did the smaller capitalists who were heavily invested into the stock market, but the highest level of the capitalist elite didn't care, as they considered it acceptable suffering so they could reach their goals, especially since the illuminati has great disdain for the working class and lower-level capitalists.

You're still assuming the Illuminati actually exists without providing any actual evidence. Work on that first.


Inflation is another way the rich steal from the poor as the cost of their products keep going up, while wages stagnate and the "real value" of workers wages keeps going down. In addition a poor economy for workers is a boon from the capitalists. For example in the 1960's average CEO wages were 20 times the average Union wage, today CEO wages are 320 times the average Union wage.

No, inflation is a natural consequence of the increase in the money supply - as more money exists, it becomes worth less. This is why printing money is a bad idea.


I disagree, it was one of the few times he was actually truthful.

I'm asking you the question again: How do you know he's telling the truth? What does the evidence, not your opinion, say about the matter?


I do believe this quote and I have a YouTube on my website "Wake Up Earth" that tours the Rothschild's vast holdings. And it is just one of many such videos and articles on the web. Prior to the internet most of this was hidden from the people of the Earth, except for a few organizations who kept abreast of activities. I have been actively studying the activities of the Illuminati since 1978.

Firstly, anyone can put a video on YouTube - that doesn't constitute evidence, unless you've used decent sources. In that case, provide your sources.


I checked out Stormfront, it's a f*cking white supremacist group, I have no doubt they are anti-semitic but I doubt they are anti-capitalist or anti-illuminati!!

If one is ANTI-CAPITALIST by definition one is ANTI-ILLUMINATI, however it does not follow that anyone would be anti-semitic, that is an idiotic comparison. As I said above just because there are some Jewish members of the illuminati does make an anti-illuminati person also anti-semitic!!

They do think that the world is controlled by Jewish bankers. What are the Rothschilds?


The illuminati are the "invisible hand" of most capitalists governments, only the elite of the corporate and political world are chosen to be a member of the illuminati groups (The Bilderbergers, The Trilateral Commission, The Council on Foreign Relations and others). Since the assassination of JFK all USA presidents have been illuminati members except Ronald Reagan however his Vice President George Bush was a member. They rule not only the economic world but the every country they have acquired the power in. The illuminati is capitalism at its worse.

More assertions without evidence.


Yes, in time you learn which sources to trust, however even if the truth seeker doesn't always get the details totally correct. The one thing that is revealed over time is the government makes up cover stories to hide what really happened that they are unable keep secret. In fact it is very hard to catch the USA government ever telling the truth.

Nonsense. The truth is just as useful to the ruling classes as lies are.


I'm calling bullshit on your bullshit. Because if the majority of the workers knew what the illuminati were doing to make their life more miserable we would have already had a workers revolution!! This is why the illuminati: The Bilderbergers, The Trilateral Commission, The Council on Foreign Relations and the corporate elite meet in private because it DOESN'T want the workers of the world nor the governments of the world to know what they are doing until their protocols are completed. They work together to direct the economy's and the nation's under its control.

To discredit and insure their secrets stay secret they misuse of the term conspiracy theory so that anyone who finds out what they are up to are made fun of. It is quite genius.

Make no mistake we not only have to defeat the capitalist system and their powerful organizations including the illuminati, but the capitalists must join the working class or be assassinated.

I could just as easily say that the world is secretly being controlled by a bunch of extra-dimensional Jewish lizards, using the same amount of actual evidence and the exact same reasoning that you are using. That's why evidence is important - it separates the wheat from the chaff.

[Lev Bronsteinovich]

TheCat'sHat raises a question worthy of deep consideration. I have posted elsewhere that we run the risk of corrupting ourselves when we glorify violence. Food for thought.
I think we do this in part to steel ourselves. Obviously, as humanists, we choose to get the greatest result with the least spilling of blood. Also, and maybe most importantly, we want to be clear that overthrowing the rotten system of capitalism will almost certainly involve violence. If you are unwilling to go there, don't bother.

The Russian Revolution was not particularly violent. The Russian bourgeoisie, along with their imperialist backers, were ready to crush the revolution in blood. If the Bolsheviks simply recoiled in horror from defending the revolution, sometimes with bloody violence, then they would have been gone in a year, the revolution drowned in blood.

Revolutionary violence is nothing to glory in. But it is something that probably cannot be avoided -- it is folly to pretend otherwise. To the extent that it can be minimized, all the better. We want to build a new society, not on the ashes of this society, but using all of its, resources, accomplishments and all of the people that are not implacably hostile to it.

[GoddessCleoLover]

You and I might need to steel ourselves, but some posters either relish violence of turn a blind eye or even justify massive violence that had nothing to do with any revolution and everything to do with establishing themselves as a dictatorial ruling caste.

[TheCat'sHat]

because

he was

a nazi

Was he making credible threats of violence against you or atacking you?

[Lev Bronsteinovich]

You and I might need to steel ourselves, but some posters either relish violence of turn a blind eye or even justify massive violence that had nothing to do with any revolution and everything to do with establishing themselves as a dictatorial ruling caste.
Well, there is a history of vicarious bloodthirstiness on the left. I know there are a few comrades that defend Stalin and his heirs treatment of oppositionists and others, but I think they are in the minority here. In the 60s and 70s there were a fair number of vicarious guerillas on the left in the US and Western Europe. I think the blood lust is mostly false bravado. Pretty unseemly too.

I have no problems with revolutionary terror, although I'm not sure I'd be very good at meting it out. If killing the royal family is deemed necessary to defend the revolution, okay. But it is a cruel necessity and one not to be taken lightly or with gusto.

[GoddessCleoLover]

Was he making credible threats of violence against you or atacking you?

If Avanti posts that he was not, then he is incriminating himself on the internet. Assuming, of course, that the story is factual.:D

[TheCat'sHat]

I think we do this in part to steel ourselves. Obviously, as humanists, we choose to get the greatest result with the least spilling of blood. Also, and maybe most importantly, we want to be clear that overthrowing the rotten system of capitalism will almost certainly involve violence. If you are unwilling to go there, don't bother.

The Russian Revolution was not particularly violent. The Russian bourgeoisie, along with their imperialist backers, were ready to crush the revolution in blood. If the Bolsheviks simply recoiled in horror from defending the revolution, sometimes with bloody violence, then they would have been gone in a year, the revolution drowned in blood.

Revolutionary violence is nothing to glory in. But it is something that probably cannot be avoided -- it is folly to pretend otherwise. To the extent that it can be minimized, all the better. We want to build a new society, not on the ashes of this society, but using all of its, resources, accomplishments and all of the people that are not implacably hostile to it.

Well. I genuinly appreciate your thoughtful comments. But I guess I feel like the very historical precedent you cite, the Russian Revolution,
goes against your point. I don't see how anyone can look at the regime which emerged from the Russian civil war as anything worth emulating. Trotsky bravely led the Red Army against the White and Imperialist forces but the state which emerged was even more totalitarian than under the Tsar.

[Green Girl]

Oh christ! I thought we ban scum like you!

Why? I am pro-working class!! And I absolutely abore anything that is anti-worker including the most evil capitalists of all, the illuminati!! Evil doesn't get any worse than the anti-worker, pro big-money illuminati! If you are not anti-illuminati you are not anti-capitalism!!

Our communist revolution MUST destroy the illuminati or we will fail.


Capitalism is not a conspiracy, as a matter of fact, this whole conception of a "conspiracy" itself is nothing short of one of the variants of Idealism.

Capitalism itself is not a conspiracy, however the upper echelon of the corporate and political elite that has memberships in the illuminati organizations (such as the The Bilderbergers, The Trilateral Commission and The Council on Foreign Relations) which one can only join by invitation. These elite of the worlds of finance and government are what decide how the world is run. They do it in meetings the press is not invited to.


You're a moralist scum is all.[/QUOTE]

How is being against ALL forms of capitalism including the evil illuminati make me scum? Very well I am proletariat scum who HATES all forms of capitalism including the illuminati!!

[QUOTE]You expect members of the bourgeois state to be "honest, ethical (fucking gross) individuals"

No, the bourgeois live off the labor of the workers so I never expect them to be honest! Which the bourgeois prove day in and day out.


The Illuminati doesn't exist.

All presidents of the USA have been members of illuminati groups since JFK with the exception of Ronald Regean. Hiding your head in the sand will not magically make the evil illuminati go away! They are a real threat to the working class and MUST be defeated!!


Christ get the fuck out of here, you're obviously not a revolutionary communist, you're a petite bourgeois moralist and a cinematic-romanticist.

By ignoring the threat of the illuminati groups you are proving that YOU not a revolutionary communist. I don't know what class you belong to but I am a proletariat. It is people who are pro-illuminati groups that are bourgeois. What a bizarre statement you made!


Go fuck yourself. I suppose you're going to say Lenin was a member of the illuminati?

Such nice language, your attitude is what I expect from the bourgeois and the bourgeois upper echelon, the illuminati, not from a fellow proletariat.


I'm sitting on my ass on the computer right now) for the emancipation of the proletarian class and the destruction of capitalist social relations, not the preservation of traditions which are being intruded by big bad "internationalist" banks.

FYI the internationalist banks are part of the capitalists system, as a matter of fact that part that steals the wealth from everyone bourgeois and proletariat alike. The Banks MUST must be nationalized and taken out of private hands. They must go down with all the other capitalists!!!!


It mystifies me why you are on this site, as we Communists are the greatest victim of conspiracy theories.

As I plainly said the capitalist's use the words "conspiracy theory" to discredit those who know what the illuminati are doing. They are not conspiracy theories at all but what the upper echelon capitalists are doing to economically and politically rule the world.

I'm not privy to any Communist party conspiracy theories and I've been studying communism since 1974, though it really would be nice if we could get our own organizations that could infiltrate governments and the corporate elite. But us communists don't have one. :(

I joined this site because I absolutely abore anything that is anti-worker including the most EVIL capitalists of all, the illuminati. Evil doesn't get any worse than the anti-worker, pro big-money illuminati!


The theories which proclaim the Communists as "instruments of the banks"

I never heard such a thing but since the communists would nationalize banks your quote makes no sense.


The only reason anti semitic conspiracy theories existed was to attack the Communists.

There are plenty of anti-semitics, the KKK and various white supremacist groups, even some churches. However none of this has anything to do with the illuminati which includes all races and religions. It is very racist to say the illuminati is Jewish, it is NOT!!!


The only reason banking (illuminati) conspiracy theorists existed was to attack the Communists.

Communism is the enemy of both the bourgeois class and the banking cartels.


You know where this logic ends, no? Reptilians.

This is another trick the illuminati use to keep those who find the truth from taking the anti-illuminati seriously. The illuminati have also planted devil worship for the same reasons. They are distractions and clearly fake, but just weird enough to deflect the world's eyes off of the illuminati's real activities.


This forum is in need of a great purge leveled against conspiracy theorists. I am so sick of their shit. They don't even belong in OI.

I am sick of the illuminati, help us destroy them and then the world will be rid of them. I have my site "Wake Up World" to get the word out.

Ignore the capitalist illuminati at your own peril!

Nothing is more communist, more pro-worker than hating the illuminati. Why would you want to ban communists that HATE the very worst of the capitalists, the illuminati? That makes no sense whatsoever and if you truly believe that you are saying you not a proletariat and not a communist.

I hate the capitalist illuminati with every fibre of my being!!!

And you being so scared of them that you deny their very existence is bizarre. I will not close my eyes to any of the abuses of the bourgeois class especially the bourgeois illuminati.

In short I find your post not only highly offensive to me, but to all members of the working class and communists everywhere!!:rolleyes:

[prolcon]

Illuminati? Are you fucking kidding me?

Oh, RevLeft.

[TheCat'sHat]

Green Girl is obviously here to kick up dust by distracting leftists with talk of the fictions Illuminati so as to distract attention from the Reptilian agenda, of which she is undoubtedly a pawn.

Her username only buttresses my case.

[Green Girl]

Doesn't matter if you happen to think "oh, they're not really Jewish" - by promoting all this Rothschilds bullcrap, you're helping to spread antisemitic ideas whether you think you are or not.

Anyone who thinks that the illuminati are Jewish is WRONG, very WRONG! The Rothschilds are Jewish but that is NOT their crime, they may very well be the most evil capitalist family on Earth in all of history.

If you are afraid to attack a group just because it has a few Jewish members you will never win a communist revolution.

Wrongfully using the term "anti-Semitic" to try to protect Rothschilds reputation is ludicrous. The Rothschilds' treasonous acts against the working class are too well documented. Of all the really bad capitalists the Rothschilds are the worst.


The ideas and structures of conspiracy bullshit bear a disturbing resemblance to that found in the hoax document Protocols of the Elders of Zion. Read it and substitute the words "Jew" "Zion" "Jewish" and "Zionist" with terms appropriate to Illuminati/conspiracy bullshit and try telling me it don't fit.

I have never read the Protocols of the Elders of Zion, I care more about what is really going on rather than a work of fiction. Besides since I am part Jewish I don't read anti-zionist or anti-Jewish materials. As I said before the illuminati are the ones use the term conspiracy theory, to discredit what they are actually doing. The Illuminati are doing real destructive things to my country right now, it is no theory it is REAL!!


Can you actually prove all this? With actual evidence, not the shit-smeared scribblings of racist conspiracy nuts?

Yes, my blog "Wake Up Earth", and BTW the only racist I have found so far besides the KKK and other white supremacists groups is you! No one else brings up the race of the illuminati members. President Barak Obama is a member and I can guarantee you he is not Jewish. This racist stuff must be in your head as the illuminati are ALL races!!!!


You're still assuming the Illuminati actually exists without providing any actual evidence. Work on that first.

You can download the member list of one of the illuminati groups: The Trilateral Commission from their own website I can't post a link because I don't have 25 posts yet but it will be the first hit in a google search. Once again since they are out in the open it proves that the illuminati are real and if they ever were a conspiracy theory they are the real thing now.


No, inflation is a natural consequence of the increase in the money supply - as more money exists, it becomes worth less. This is why printing money is a bad idea.

This is true it is called monetizing the debt, however it is monetizing the debt (inflation) has causes the rich to get richer and the poor to get poorer.


They do think that the world is controlled by Jewish bankers. What are the Rothschilds?.

The international bankers are of all races NOT just Jews and not onc piece of evidence I have on my blog points to the Jews. This racism is in your head, were you a member of the KKK at one time?

The Rothschilds are a large family that managed to get control and printing of the money supply of all the world's state banks, in the USA it is the Rothschild owned Federal Reserve System. They are the wealthiest family on the face of the Earth, their estimated wealth is as high as 500 trillion dollars, there are no perfectly accurate accounts and all of the numbers are based on physical holdings, etc.

Still it has nothing to do with some Jewish conspiracy, they would be just as rich and as ruthless if their family name was Smith.

You have got to get past these anti-Semitic ideas of yours, the capitalists and the illuminati don't care what race anyone is, they screw all of us workers equally!

Remember it's the bourgeois including the illuminati versus us "the proletariat", race has no place here!!!

[Green Girl]

Illuminati? Are you fucking kidding me?

Oh, RevLeft.

If you are anti-capitalist then you must also be anti-illuminati.

The illuminati are the worst of the capitalist class and all deserve the death sentence for their many crimes when the workers win a communist revolution!!!!!

[Green Girl]

Green Girl is obviously here to kick up dust by distracting leftists with talk of the fictions Illuminati so as to distract attention from the Reptilian agenda, of which she is undoubtedly a pawn.

Her username only buttresses my case.

The illuminati are quite real, some of the member organizations even have their own websites. These are the upper echelon of the corporate and political elite world, and the crimes they are committing at this very minute are legend. The illuminati are the most evil of all the capitalists. If you are anti-capitalist you are by definition anti-illuminati!!!

Why is it so hard for some communists to believe how bad capitalists can be?

[TheCat'sHat]

The illuminati are quite real, some of the member organizations even have their own websites.

Doesn't it strike you as odd that a hyper-secretive and hyper-powerful organization would have a publicly accessible web-site?

[TheCat'sHat]

If you are anti-capitalist then you must also be anti-illuminati.

The illuminati are the worst of the capitalist class and all deserve the death sentence for their many crimes when the workers win a communist revolution!!!!!

http://www.deakinphilosophicalsociety.com/texts/camus/reflections.pdf

[Jimmie Higgins]

The illuminati are quite real, some of the member organizations even have their own websites. These are the upper echelon of the corporate and political elite world, and the crimes they are committing at this very minute are legend. The illuminati are the most evil of all the capitalists. If you are anti-capitalist you are by definition anti-illuminati!!!

Why is it so hard for some communists to believe how bad capitalists can be?

I just don't think they need to have secret organizations to do this, most of it is done through formal organizations of the economy and government, there is no need to "shape capitalism" to make it unjust and chaotic: it's that way by nature.

What does it matter for workers anyway? If the illuminati don't exist, would capitalism be better or more just?

[hetz]

Lies.

[Green Girl]

Doesn't it strike you as odd that a hyper-secretive and hyper-powerful organization would have a publicly accessible web-site?

No! That was my point, they are NOT conspiracies, the conspiracy theory is a shield used by the illuminati groups to prevent the masses from believing anything someone might discover detrimental to any of their protocols until they are carried out.

On their websites you won't find any of these resolutions from their private meetings, their websites are a public face.

I am shocked that a Communist website doesn't understand the real threat of the illuminati groups.

The Illuminati is Capitalism at its very worst.

[hetz]

That's what they want you to think.

[Jimmie Higgins]

The Illuminati is Capitalism at its very worst.What do you propose people do about it? How is are the tasks of the worker's struggle different if these organizations existed?

I don't see any reason why this would make any difference. Workers need to organize themselves openly and fight for their interests, we know what capitalism does, the point is to try and organize a democratic working class alternative and I can only see concern over secret organizations as a distraction from that that has no positive impact.

I think the undelying assumption is that if only people knew how bad things are, then they would rise up. But I don't think things work this way; more imporatant than knowing things are fucked up, is the ability and confidence and organization to try and build an alternative to that.

[Avanti]

What do you propose people do about it? How is are the tasks of the worker's struggle different if these organizations existed?

I don't see any reason why this would make any difference. Workers need to organize themselves openly and fight for their interests, we know what capitalism does, the point is to try and organize a democratic working class alternative and I can only see concern over secret organizations as a distraction from that that has no positive impact.

I think the undelying assumption is that if only people knew how bad things are, then they would rise up. But I don't think things work this way; more imporatant than knowing things are fucked up, is the ability and confidence and organization to try and build an alternative to that.

i think

we should form

secret

mystical

organisations

kinships

based

around elaborate

myths and legends

[Avanti]

Was he making credible threats of violence against you or atacking you?

his pack

had threatened

and attacked

members

of the muslim community

my attack

was a sneak attack

he was standing at the beach

he often went that way

for a reason

loved to stand there alone

and watch the summer sunsets

his dad

was an alcoholic

who had beaten him and his mum

i know

i had stalked him

for days

then i sneaked out from the vegetation

and hit him down

i didn't hold

and i don't hold

any hatred

for him personally

but in a war

you have

to break

some skulls

i was 18, he was 17

[Green Girl]

What do you propose people do about it? How is are the tasks of the worker's struggle different if these organizations existed?

I don't see any reason why this would make any difference. Workers need to organize themselves openly and fight for their interests, we know what capitalism does, the point is to try and organize a democratic working class alternative and I can only see concern over secret organizations as a distraction from that that has no positive impact.

I think the undelying assumption is that if only people knew how bad things are, then they would rise up. But I don't think things work this way; more imporatant than knowing things are fucked up, is the ability and confidence and organization to try and build an alternative to that.

Quite simple, new members to our cause.

The illuminati's intrusions into freedoms, rights to protest, homelessness when many more homes lay empty due to foreclosure and when they learn that the illuminati and Capitalism are responsible for their dire straits, they will be looking for an alternative to capitalism. Anti-capitalism is anti-capitalism and no anti-capitalism should be opposed in my opinion.

[Sea]

Are the illuminati those fuckers that make the lightbulbs?

If so I'd like to have a word with them, because I recently bought a pack bulbs and like half of them were broken. Usually I have to drop them first.

[Danielle Ni Dhighe]

They aren't sociopaths. They're decent people. Who do they do the things they do? Because the dehumanize and abstract other people.
So they are sociopaths, if only situational ones.

[Danielle Ni Dhighe]

The illuminati's intrusions into freedoms, rights to protest, homelessness when many more homes lay empty due to foreclosure and when they learn that the illuminati and Capitalism are responsible for their dire straits, they will be looking for an alternative to capitalism. Anti-capitalism is anti-capitalism and no anti-capitalism should be opposed in my opinion.
The problem is the capitalist class not some imaginary Illuminati. Revolutionaries should put forward cold hard fact not fantasy.

[Jimmie Higgins]

Quite simple, new members to our cause.How? Why would it? As it is we know for a fact that FDR allowed pearl harbor to happen - so what. We know for a fact that tobbacco companies deliberately lied and made millions. We know for a fact that current methods of production are destroying the earth. We know for a fact that pharmasudacol companies conspire to prevent people from getting treatment. Millions of workers go to work knowing that their company or boss is screwing them in some specific way (any number of workplace grievences anywhere) and many know that they are being screwed in a general way.

People in Greece, people in US prisons, people all over the world know capitalism is destructive already. What is missing is a sense of an alternative to fight for as well as sucessful methods of fighting. People don't think things can change, so they try and make peace with the cards they have been dealt. But when there are movements and class struggles it is possible to break through this and for people to begin to see that they can organize themselves, fight and begin to fight for their own ajenda. Nobody had to tell black people that Jim Crow was harmful, but it did take a movement able to challeng it for people to begin to hope and fight for an end to that system.

The problem with many conspiracy theories is that they tend to lead to a passivity. Sometimes people begin to think that the population are "dupes" if they don't believe the theory and so that leads to a kind of elitism or pessimissim about mass struggle. Or sometimes it leads to a sort of logic where so-and-so controlls everything and so any attempt to do anything is futile. Rather than trying to build struggles that can self-empower people, the goal becomes prothlytizing knowledge of the conspiracy; but again, that alone can't produce a willingness to fight.

[Avanti]

How? Why would it? As it is we know for a fact that FDR allowed pearl harbor to happen - so what. We know for a fact that tobbacco companies deliberately lied and made millions. We know for a fact that current methods of production are destroying the earth. We know for a fact that pharmasudacol companies conspire to prevent people from getting treatment. Millions of workers go to work knowing that their company or boss is screwing them in some specific way (any number of workplace grievences anywhere) and many know that they are being screwed in a general way.

People in Greece, people in US prisons, people all over the world know capitalism is destructive already. What is missing is a sense of an alternative to fight for as well as sucessful methods of fighting. People don't think things can change, so they try and make peace with the cards they have been dealt. But when there are movements and class struggles it is possible to break through this and for people to begin to see that they can organize themselves, fight and begin to fight for their own ajenda. Nobody had to tell black people that Jim Crow was harmful, but it did take a movement able to challeng it for people to begin to hope and fight for an end to that system.

The problem with many conspiracy theories is that they tend to lead to a passivity. Sometimes people begin to think that the population are "dupes" if they don't believe the theory and so that leads to a kind of elitism or pessimissim about mass struggle. Or sometimes it leads to a sort of logic where so-and-so controlls everything and so any attempt to do anything is futile. Rather than trying to build struggles that can self-empower people, the goal becomes prothlytizing knowledge of the conspiracy; but again, that alone can't produce a willingness to fight.

too academic

too dry

too immaterial

what made me

and most others

to join into

antifa activities

in the 1990s

was not anarchism

anarchism

was primarily

an excuse

to break

bonehead skulls

you must understand

the relations

precede

all ideologies

your ideology

can be the stupidest

ideology ever

and yet

the smartest

since the

important thing

is not

how theoretically

consistent

it is

but how much

it manages

to provide

a meaning of life

a world-view

to its followers

[Lev Bronsteinovich]

Well. I genuinly appreciate your thoughtful comments. But I guess I feel like the very historical precedent you cite, the Russian Revolution,
goes against your point. I don't see how anyone can look at the regime which emerged from the Russian civil war as anything worth emulating. Trotsky bravely led the Red Army against the White and Imperialist forces but the state which emerged was even more totalitarian than under the Tsar.
I am hoping not to open up too big a can of worms here, but there was a political counterrevolution in the USSR before Stalin was able to consolidate his vicious regime. And as a Marxist, I would not use the degree of political repression as a sole measure of how historically progressive the USSR was, even under Stalin. But a reasonably thorough discussion about the nature of the USSR has probably happened about four hundred times in this forum. We could, of course, start another thread about this. . . .

If you prefer, you could look back to the Terror of the French Revolution. Some of it was excessive, but probably, in the main, necessary (personally, I think the execution of Lavoisier was beyond idiotic -- the man was one of the great scientists of his time).

[Lev Bronsteinovich]

The problem with many conspiracy theories is that they tend to lead to a passivity. Sometimes people begin to think that the population are "dupes" if they don't believe the theory and so that leads to a kind of elitism or pessimissim about mass struggle. Or sometimes it leads to a sort of logic where so-and-so controlls everything and so any attempt to do anything is futile. Rather than trying to build struggles that can self-empower people, the goal becomes prothlytizing knowledge of the conspiracy; but again, that alone can't produce a willingness to fight.
Yes, and it also suggests that the problem is NOT capitalism, but those evil conspirators. I say stick with the law of parsimony. Capitalism is the problem. Sure, there are conspiracies here and there, but they don't change the fundamental limitations of capitalism, and really are beside the point.

[prolcon]

Whether the Illuminati are "behind" anything at all, they are slaves to the insatiable hunger of capital and are subject to the immutable laws of social development.

[GoddessCleoLover]

I think that Green Girl is an excellent new poster in general but references to The Illuminati are a distraction from the real issue; capitalism.

[Let's Get Free]

The thing about conspiracy and who rules America, is that there has never been a conspiracy as such. The goal of cornering the lion's share of wealth and power has always been an open and above board project. The original accumulation of the great fortunes, in lumber, mining, refining, railroads, shipping, manufacturing, petroleum, pharmaceuticals, banking, construction, land ownership, and so on has never been conducted secretly, or hardly even in private. Step by step, the original accumulators gathered wealth, million by million, until they were very, very rich. They passed this on to the their successors who may or may not have continued the business. But again, these transactions weren't conducted in secret.
"I" or "you" may not know the names of the rich because we haven't gone out of our way to find out, but if we so chose to look, we could find out. It isn't a closely guarded secret. That's why people have been able to write books about the rich and the superrich: The information is public.
That doesn't mean that you are going to get close to those with a lot of money. The rich protect themselves as well as they can from unwelcome contacts. Were I filthy rich, I would do the same thing.

[black magick hustla]

hey gueys the world is flat and gravity is a conspiracy of the bourgeosie, instead the earth accelerates upwards 9.8 m/s^2 and we feel an elevator effect. nobody has gone over the edge of the earth cuz' there is a huge ice wall. also the govt spends billions of dollars to create holograms in the sky that makes the earth look astronomically round. srsly geuys if u believe in gravity u believe in capitalism

[prolcon]

Wow, that was almost witty.