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Princess Luna
1st December 2012, 10:43
My wife teaches French to tenth-grade students at a private school here in Mumbai. During one recent class, she asked these mostly upper-middle-class kids to complete the sentence “J'admire …” with the name of the historical figure they most admired.
To say she was disturbed by the results would be to understate her reaction. Of 25 students in the class, 9 picked Adolf Hitler, making him easily the highest vote-getter in this particular exercise; a certain Mohandas Gandhi was the choice of precisely one student. Discussing the idea of courage with other students once, my wife was startled by the contempt they had for Gandhi. “He was a coward!” they said. And as far back as 2002, the Times of India reported a survey that found that 17 percent of students in elite Indian colleges “favored Adolf Hitler as the kind of leader India ought to have.”

In a place where Gandhi becomes a coward, perhaps Hitler becomes a hero.

Still, why Hitler? “He was a fantastic orator,” said the 10th-grade kids. “He loved his country; he was a great patriot. He gave back to Germany a sense of pride they had lost after the Treaty of Versailles,” they said.

"And what about the millions he murdered?” asked my wife. “Oh, yes, that was bad,” said the kids. “But you know what, some of them were traitors.”

Admiring Hitler for his oratorical skills? Surreal enough. Add to that the easy condemnation of his millions of victims as traitors. Add to that the characterization of this man as a patriot. I mean, in a short dozen years, Hitler led Germany through a scarcely believable orgy of blood to utter shame and wholesale destruction. Even the mere thought of calling such a man a patriot profoundly corrupts—is violently antithetical to—the idea of patriotism.

But these are kids, you think, and kids say the darndest things. Except this is no easily written-off experience. The evidence is that Hitler has plenty of admirers in India, plenty of whom are by no means kids.

Consider Mein Kampf, Hitler’s autobiography. Reviled it might be in the much of the world, but Indians buy thousands of copies of it every month. As a recent paper in the journal EPW tells us (PDF), there are over a dozen Indian publishers who have editions of the book on the market. Jaico, for example, printed its 55th edition in 2010, claiming to have sold 100,000 copies in the previous seven years. (Contrast this to the 3,000 copies my own 2009 book, Roadrunner, has sold). In a country where 10,000 copies sold makes a book a bestseller, these are significant numbers.

And the approval goes beyond just sales. Mein Kampf is available for sale on flipkart.com, India’s Amazon. As I write this, 51 customers have rated the book; 35 of those gave it a five-star rating. What’s more, there’s a steady trickle of reports that say it has become a must-read for business-school students; a management guide much like Spencer Johnson’s Who Moved My Cheese or Edward de Bono’s Lateral Thinking. If this undistinguished artist could take an entire country with him, I imagine the reasoning goes, surely his book has some lessons for future captains of industry?

Much of Hitler’s Indian afterlife is the legacy of Bal Thackeray, chief of the Shiv Sena party who died on Nov. 17.

Thackeray freely, openly, and often admitted his admiration for Hitler, his book, the Nazis, and their methods. In 1993, for example, he gave an interview to Time magazine. “There is nothing wrong,” he said then, “if [Indian] Muslims are treated as Jews were in Nazi Germany.”
This interview came only months after the December 1992 and January 1993 riots in Mumbai, which left about a thousand Indians slaughtered, the majority of them Muslim. Thackeray was active right through those weeks, writing editorial after editorial in his party mouthpiece, “Saamna” (“Confrontation”) about how to “treat” Muslims.

On Dec. 9, 1992, for example, his editorial contained these lines: “Pakistan need not cross the borders and attack India. 250 million Muslims in India will stage an armed insurrection. They form one of Pakistan’s seven atomic bombs.”

A month later, on Jan. 8, 1993, there was this: “Muslims of Bhendi Bazar, Null Bazar, Dongri and Pydhonie, the areas [of Mumbai] we call Mini Pakistan … must be shot on the spot.”
There was plenty more too: much of it inspired by the failed artist who became Germany’s führer. After all, only weeks before the riots erupted, Thackeray said this about the führer’s famous autobiography: “If you take Mein Kampf and if you remove the word Jew and put in the word Muslim, that is what I believe in.”

With rhetoric like that, it’s no wonder the streets of my city saw the slaughter of 1992-93. It’s no wonder kids come to admire a mass-murderer, to rationalize away his massacres. It’s no wonder they cling to almost comically superficial ideas of courage and patriotism, in which a megalomaniac’s every ghastly crime is forgotten so long as we can pretend that he “loved” his country.

In his acclaimed 1997 book Hitler’s Willing Executioners, Daniel Goldhagen writes: “Hitler, in possession of great oratorical skills, was the [Nazi] Party’s most forceful public speaker. Like Hitler, the party from its earliest days was devoted to the destruction of … democracy [and to] most especially and relentlessly, anti-Semitism. … The Nazi Party became Hitler’s Party, obsessively anti-Semitic and apocalyptic in its rhetoric about its enemies.”

Do some substitutions in those sentences along the lines Thackeray wanted to do with Mein Kampf. Indeed, what you get is a more than adequate description of … no surprise, Thackeray himself.

Yes, it’s no wonder. Thackeray too was revered as an orator. Cremated, on Nov. 18, as a patriot.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/11/30/hitler-s-strange-afterlife-in-india.html

hetz
1st December 2012, 10:45
Hitler and the Nazis also seem to be popular in Japan and Korea. They even have a Nazi-themed bar in Seoul...

Danielle Ni Dhighe
1st December 2012, 10:58
Sickening.

Beeth
1st December 2012, 12:19
Admiring hitler is wrong, as it well should be. But admiring Churchill or some other 'respectable' bigot is fine, as far as conservatives and liberals/leftists are concerned. Strange world!

l'Enfermé
1st December 2012, 12:43
Just wait until the glorious Naxalites win their "protracted people's war" and then all the Indians won't be so fond of Herr Hitler.

Sir Comradical
1st December 2012, 12:53
"And what about the millions he murdered?” asked my wife. “Oh, yes, that was bad,” said the kids. “But you know what, some of them were traitors.""

Absolutely sickening.

Zealot
1st December 2012, 12:58
I heard a couple of years ago that it was popular in India with capitalists and wannabe-capitalists who apparently "draw lessons" for business from Mein Kampf.

Avanti
1st December 2012, 13:00
Just wait until the glorious Naxalites win their "protracted people's war" and then all the Indians won't be so fond of Herr Hitler.

the naxalite revolution

if ever successful

will

lead

to the deaths

of 100s of millions of indians

the entire

caste structure

will be wiped out

and the wrath

of the masses

is boiling

most

of the wankers

amongst the western

academic leftists

would find excuses

i for one

i support the revenge

of the indian masses

Grenzer
2nd December 2012, 21:18
"And what about the millions he murdered?” asked my wife. “Oh, yes, that was bad,” said the kids. “But you know what, some of them were traitors.""

Absolutely sickening.

Funny how the obvious irony of a Stalinist making this statement has gone unnoticed.

l'Enfermé
2nd December 2012, 22:06
Funny how the obvious irony of a Stalinist making this statement has gone unnoticed.
Trotskyist-Zinovivite monstrous terrorists are not real people, idiot.

hetz
2nd December 2012, 22:07
Except that Jews didn't get killed because they were "traitors", but simply for being Jews.

Raúl Duke
2nd December 2012, 22:48
Except that Jews didn't get killed because they were "traitors", but simply for being Jews.

Well...the Nazis believed that being a Jew = treachery. They talked about how they were the "fifth column that stabbed them in the back" during WWI.

I imagine, similarly, that some Indians particularly this Thackeray guy think that being a Muslim in India equals being a potential or outright traitor.

There may be no logic, but I wouldn't be surprised if they engage in this irrational discriminatory thinking along similar lines.

Sir Comradical
3rd December 2012, 00:13
Funny how the obvious irony of a Stalinist making this statement has gone unnoticed.

It has gone unnoticed because there's no irony, unless you're one of those degenerate liberals who equates Nazism with the USSR.

kashkin
3rd December 2012, 00:23
To an extent I'm not surprised. My extended family don't support Thackeray, but they are middle-class Hindu fundamentalists, I could easily see them giving support under different material conditions.

Also, remember these are kids from a private school, fascism is a middle-class movement.

Althusser
3rd December 2012, 00:29
the naxalite revolution

if ever successful

will

lead

to the deaths

of 100s of millions of indians

the entire

caste structure

will be wiped out

and the wrath

of the masses

is boiling

most

of the wankers

amongst the western

academic leftists

would find excuses

i for one

i support the revenge

of the indian masses

But if the Indian masses are all reading Mein Kampf...

Wait... I'm not sure what you mean here. The western academic leftists would find excuses for what? The revenge of the Indian masses against what? Why would the majority be mad at the destruction of the caste system?

hetz
3rd December 2012, 00:38
Well...the Nazis believed that being a Jew = treachery. They talked about how they were the "fifth column that stabbed them in the back" during WWI.
Polish or Russian Jews stabbed Imperial Germany in the back?
What I'm saying is that most Jews killed by the Nazi regime weren't sent to camps as "punishment" for some imaginary or real "crime", but liquidated simply because of their nationality.

kashkin
3rd December 2012, 00:44
Polish or Russian Jews stabbed Imperial Germany in the back?
What I'm saying is that most Jews killed by the Nazi regime weren't sent to camps as "punishment" for some imaginary or real "crime", but liquidated simply because of their nationality.

A) Many Polish and Russian Jews fled to Germany pre-WW1 to escape the Tsar's pogroms, the stab-in-the-back legend refers to all Jews in Germany, really Jews in general.

B) And Jews weren't killed for their nationality but simply for being Jewish. Their 'crime' was being Jewish.

Raúl Duke
3rd December 2012, 04:42
Jews weren't killed for their nationality but simply for being Jewish. Their 'crime' was being Jewish. exactly, but Nazi anti-semitism (hell, arguably all forms of discrimination do this) led to essentializing all sorts of negative characteristics and myths to their ethnicity.

piet11111
3rd December 2012, 05:38
Polish or Russian Jews stabbed Imperial Germany in the back?
What I'm saying is that most Jews killed by the Nazi regime weren't sent to camps as "punishment" for some imaginary or real "crime", but liquidated simply because of their nationality.

The nazi's believe the jews are an international conspiracy against the aryan race.

Sort of how the right now thinks of Muslims being a threat to the western world.

Yuppie Grinder
3rd December 2012, 05:54
In defense of the Indian ultra-nationalists, reading Mein Kampf is probably good for a business student.

ind_com
3rd December 2012, 06:01
In defense of the Indian ultra-nationalists, reading Mein Kampf is probably good for a business student.

Fascist tendencies are quite common among the Indian upper-middle classes. They admire Hitler as a great leader and also agree with the Holocaust, stating that Jews were weakening Germany. They advocate the same treatment for Indian minorities, and mostly stand for a martial rule all over India. Creating a cultural and political environment for the growth of such elements is actually a move of the Indian ruling classes to combat the people's war.

A Revolutionary Tool
3rd December 2012, 07:54
Admiring hitler is wrong, as it well should be. But admiring Churchill or some other 'respectable' bigot is fine, as far as conservatives and liberals/leftists are concerned. Strange world!
Winston Churchill didn't round up millions of people and put them in gas chambers...

Flying Purple People Eater
3rd December 2012, 08:23
It has gone unnoticed because there's no irony, unless you're one of those degenerate liberals who equates Nazism with the USSR.
Stop calling people liberals, you fucking liberal. Drosophilia, unlike you, does not support rightist nationalist movements with racist intentions. Crawl back under your moralist cairn, demon.

Honestly, why is it that reactionaries always tend to label their adversaries what perfectly describes themselves?


Winston Churchill didn't round up millions of people an put them in gas chambers[kill them]...
World War 1.

Jimmie Higgins
3rd December 2012, 08:51
Fascist tendencies are quite common among the Indian upper-middle classes. They admire Hitler as a great leader and also agree with the Holocaust, stating that Jews were weakening Germany. They advocate the same treatment for Indian minorities, and mostly stand for a martial rule all over India. Creating a cultural and political environment for the growth of such elements is actually a move of the Indian ruling classes to combat the people's war.

Does anyone know how this Hitler-identification might relate with the semi-fascist elements of Hindu Nationalism? Is is part of the same sort of phenenomena or just a sort of overlapping fascist sentiment due to the rapid changes and instability in India.

Tjis
3rd December 2012, 13:03
Possibly of interest to this topic is a nazi current called 'esoteric Hitlerism', which sees Hitler as an incarnation of Vishnu whose purpose was to restore aryans to former glory. This body of beliefs identifies the brahman caste as aryans, and sees the caste system as a successful method of maintaining racial purity and superiority. Esoteric Hitlerism was largely cooked up by Savitri Devi, which was the pseudonym of a Greek-French white nationalist author. I don't know if her ideas ever had any success within India, but it does show that within white nationalist circles there is also a notion of a hitler-hindu connection.

Avanti
3rd December 2012, 13:05
the indian masses

don't read

mein kampf

they are busy

surviving

the middle class

is reading mein kampf

because

they fear

the masses

kashkin
3rd December 2012, 14:21
Does anyone know how this Hitler-identification might relate with the semi-fascist elements of Hindu Nationalism? Is is part of the same sort of phenenomena or just a sort of overlapping fascist sentiment due to the rapid changes and instability in India.

More the latter, IMO the Hindu nationalists are taking power and in general many Hindu fundamentalists never forgave Gandhi for supporting Pakistan. The increasing anti-Muslim sentiment, as someone said above somewhat understandable given the 65 years of tension with Pakistan will leading to the dehumanisation of Muslims.

As always, fascism is a middle class ideology, I am not surprised this happened in a private school. I guess it can partly be related to the increasing internal disturbance within India, the Naxalites in the east and recent labour struggles mean the upper-classes are looking to places that seemed internally stable and fascism seems like a nice option.

I'm surprised there hasn't been increased interest/support for Imperial Japan, considering Subash Chandra Bose and Indian dissent in the Tokyo trials.

Luís Henrique
4th December 2012, 12:10
In defense of the Indian ultra-nationalists, reading Mein Kampf is probably good for a business student.

Why?

I read the whole shebang, and I can't fathom how it could be helpful for someone studying "management".

Luís Henrique

Beeth
4th December 2012, 15:11
There are more important things in India - poverty, disease, corruption, uneven development - so worrying about kids' views on hitler reeks of middle-class, liberal whining.

Anarchocommunaltoad
4th December 2012, 18:54
There are more important things in India - poverty, disease, corruption, uneven development - so worrying about kids' views on hitler reeks of middle-class, liberal whining.

The children our our future

Omsk
4th December 2012, 19:11
The opinions of those kids can be changed, no problem.

A Revolutionary Tool
4th December 2012, 22:52
Stop calling people liberals, you fucking liberal. Drosophilia, unlike you, does not support rightist nationalist movements with racist intentions. Crawl back under your moralist cairn, demon.

Honestly, why is it that reactionaries always tend to label their adversaries what perfectly describes themselves?


World War 1.

Revolutionaries have killed people. I'm not saying people revering Churchill is alright but it's nowhere near as bad as revering someone like Hitler. Equating the two together is just absurd.

cynicles
5th December 2012, 01:12
Revolutionaries have killed people. I'm not saying people revering Churchill is alright but it's nowhere near as bad as revering someone like Hitler. Equating the two together is just absurd.
Considering the stuff that Churchill actually did,all of which was backed up by his unflinching racism, it is in no way absurd.

Flying Purple People Eater
5th December 2012, 01:23
Revolutionaries have killed people. I'm not saying people revering Churchill is alright but it's nowhere near as bad as revering someone like Hitler. Equating the two together is just absurd.
No, what's absurd is reducing the facts of just how horrific the British Empire really was. Good Ol' Lizzie and Co. had been occupying countries, commiting genocides and segregating populations looooong before Hitler came to be.

Churchill was quite obviously chill with the Nazis until they started to threaten the interests of little ol' Britain. The entire Tories party basically paraded Franco's victory in Spain as a 'strike back against the danger of international communism'.

Let's Get Free
5th December 2012, 01:31
Oh, yes, that was bad,” said the kids. “But you know what, some of them were traitors.”

Actually sounds like Stalinists when they apologize for Stalin for murdering almost all of the old Bolsheviks.

A Revolutionary Tool
5th December 2012, 04:53
No, what's absurd is reducing the facts of just how horrific the British Empire really was. Good Ol' Lizzie and Co. had been occupying countries, commiting genocides and segregating populations looooong before Hitler came to be.Winston Churchill was just another Prime Minister and under his leadership the British Empire wasn't doing much of anything as horrific as rounding up millions upon millions of people and just killing them (plus the war) under Churchill.


Churchill was quite obviously chill with the Nazis until they started to threaten the interests of little ol' Britain. The entire Tories party basically paraded Franco's victory in Spain as a 'strike back against the danger of international communism'.
And so was FDR, I wouldn't say he was as bad as Hitler for that though. Hell Stalin made a freakin' pact with the guy and handed over commies to the Nazis yet some people still revere the guy here for some reason.

Sir Comradical
5th December 2012, 13:29
Actually sounds like Stalinists when they apologize for Stalin for murdering almost all of the old Bolsheviks.

I don't defend those purges so what's your point?

Sea
9th December 2012, 21:53
Add to that the characterization of this man as a patriot. I mean, in a short dozen years, Hitler led Germany through a scarcely believable orgy of blood to utter shame and wholesale destruction. Even the mere thought of calling such a man a patriot profoundly corrupts—is violently antithetical to—the idea of patriotism.I'm going to have to disagree on this one, seeing as Hitler applied (nationalist) patriotism and was very intent on doing so. Blood and soil and heim insh reich are two parts of Nazi ideology that serve as a harsh indictment to the false virtue of patriotism, not as something contrary to it.