Court in Russia bans video clips of Pussy Riot online

[Dennis the 'Bloody Peasant']

And yet Gangham Style is permitted to dominate the world, the justice??

A Moscow court has ruled that websites must remove video clips of the Pussy Riot female punk band, two of whose members are in jail.
The clips include a crude anti-Kremlin song which they performed in Moscow's main cathedral in February, and over which they were convicted.
In its ruling, the court called Pussy Riot "extremist". Websites that fail to remove the clips may be blocked.
There were widespread international protests over the Pussy Riot trial.
It was not immediately clear if the court was banning all of the group's clips, which include a song mocking Russian leader Vladimir Putin that was performed on Red Square.
The court listed websites carrying the clips and said they should be blocked, Russian media report.
A representative of Google's Russian office said YouTube would not take any decision regarding the clips until it had received official documents, Russia's Interfax news agency reports.

(BB News)

[hetz]

P.R. is cancer, even worse than Gangam Style.

I mean there is a million burning issues with Putin's Russia, but somehow liberals all over the world managed to turn some bad "artists" doing shit into some sort of a cause...

[Flying Purple People Eater]

P.R. is cancer, even worse than Gangam Style.

I mean there is a million burning issues with Putin's Russia, but somehow liberals all over the world managed to turn some bad "artists" doing shit into some sort of a cause...

Fuck you.

[l'Enfermé]

No, he's completely right. Fuck you instead comrade.

[MEGAMANTROTSKY]

P.R. is cancer, even worse than Gangam Style.

I mean there is a million burning issues with Putin's Russia, but somehow liberals all over the world managed to turn some bad "artists" doing shit into some sort of a cause...
I fail to see how the government persecution of a punk rock band isn't worthy of our consideration or sympathy.

[hetz]

I fail to see how the government persecution of a punk rock band isn't worthy of our consideration or sympathy. Are they being persecuted for anti-Putin messages ( pro-hint: look into Russian communist rock ) or for doing shit inside a church?
As I said, it's a liberal bullshit "cause" and as such is not relevant to communists.

[Jack]

Are they being persecuted for anti-Putin messages ( pro-hint: look into Russian communist rock ) or for doing shit inside a church?
As I said, it's a liberal bullshit "cause" and as such is not relevant to communists.

This. 1000 times this. It's the latest pop culture issue. This is a country where immigrants get beaten to death at the very least once a week, but the short imprisonment for a band committing an actual crime (whether or not it's justified you can argue, but there are people in American prisons serving much longer sentences for possessing marijuana) isn't a real issue.

It's just something for the media to get people excited over, nothing changes, it's a pet issue.

[l'Enfermé]

Comrades Hetz and Jack are absolutely correct. Self-proclaimed socialists on RevLeft that are parroting the fictional Pussy Riot liberal narrative should reconsider their position because it's fundamentally very stupid.

[MEGAMANTROTSKY]

Are they being persecuted for anti-Putin messages ( pro-hint: look into Russian communist rock ) or for doing shit inside a church?
By "doing shit" are you referring to their illegal concert inside the church? The content of that performance, I have read, was certainly anti-Putin, promoted LGBT rights, feminism, etc. PR contended that it was a political statement, which the judge rejected. I find it odd that you would side with the bourgeois state's outlook in this matter. How would an anti-Putin outlook not matter to the Russian state?



As I said, it's a liberal bullshit "cause" and as such is not relevant to communists.
It's true that Western musicians such as Paul McCartney and Madonna (both of whom are hardly Marxists) have proclaimed their support for the band, as well as imperialist politicians, the latter of which are the last ones to worry about human rights. In that context, I can see why you think this is nothing more than a "liberal" cause. But is this really all there is to it? I doubt it.

Pussy Riot has been subjected to draconian punishment for what amounts to little more than trespassing and blasphemy. The Russian Orthodox Church and the Moscow government are intimately involved in the affair, which highlights the what little separation of church and state there was in Russia under Putin. And as the arrest of three of PR's members took place on the eve of his re-election, it was move designed to send a clear message to those who may engage in any form of opposition to his regime. So I ask you again: How is the persecution of an anarchist punk band by the Russian government not worthy of consideration to Marxists?

This. 1000 times this. It's the latest pop culture issue. This is a country where immigrants get beaten to death at the very least once a week, but the short imprisonment for a band committing an actual crime (whether or not it's justified you can argue, but there are people in American prisons serving much longer sentences for possessing marijuana) isn't a real issue.

It's just something for the media to get people excited over, nothing changes, it's a pet issue.
"An actual crime"? Again, I find it odd that a Marxist is accepting the narrative woven by the Russian state and the Orthodox Church at face value. The trial was a total farce. Statements (or lyrics) considered offensive to orthodox Christians were attributed to PR that they did not actually say inside the church, so as to classify their actions as a hate crime; thus, the two-year sentence.

Of course, terrible things are happening in Russia, as you say. I don't think anyone here would seriously contend that PR is the most important thing under the sun. But the fact that you consider PR's predicament to be small potatoes does not mean that Marxists should completely ignore it. And how do you consider PR's sentence to be "short"? Two years in jail for a political statement is a long time, especially since two of those arrested have children of their own.

Comrades Hetz and Jack are absolutely correct. Self-proclaimed socialists on RevLeft that are parroting the fictional Pussy Riot liberal narrative should reconsider their position because it's fundamentally very stupid.
The essence of these dismissals of PR, including yours, seem to be along the lines of: Issues that are dubbed "liberal petty-bourgeois problems" are phony problems, and any consideration of them merits a capitulation to bourgeois politics. Doesn’t this stance strike you as parallel to the attitude of “Third Worldists” towards the social problems of the advanced capitalist countries? I don’t think your attitude differs that much from theirs. Honestly, are we using the Marxist method or not? We should absolutely defend PR against the Russian government, even if it is not the most pressing issue, nor should we isolate it from the abject misery that takes place in the country. I think you (all) should perhaps reconsider what’s actually “fundamentally very stupid” here.

[Danielle Ni Dhighe]

While there are many worse things happening in Russia, the fact that a punk rock band is in prison for a political protest, or an absurdity like "blasphemy," is a symptom of the larger problem of something being very rotten in the state of Russia. Dismissing that as "liberalism" is so much authoritarian bullshit.

[Red Banana]

It's not like we only have a finite amount of support to give. We can support pussy riot at the same time as focusing on other, more serious issues in Russia (and everywhere else). It's not a one or the other kind of deal.

[hetz]

Take a look at what l'Enferme wrote in that other Pussy Riot thread.




While there are many worse things happening in Russia, the fact that a punk rock band is in prison for a political protest, or an absurdity like "blasphemy," is a symptom of the larger problem of something being very rotten in the state of Russia.
Pussy Riot is the least of my worries, and it's also the least of worries of Russian communists.
Russia is rotten to the core, but not because of Pussy Riot members being given 2 years in prison for hooliganism.
Pussy Riot is barely worth a mention.

[MEGAMANTROTSKY]

Pussy Riot is barely worth a mention.
Fine, it is. For you. Glad that we've cleared that up.

[Jack]

Fine, it is. For you. Glad that we've cleared that up.

What can we do that would make the liberal one-issue types happy? All we can say is that it sucks. Even if we followed the liberal one-issue dogma and hopped on this like liberals did on the "Kony 2012" thing, what more could we do but buy t-shirts that say Free Pussy Riot and post Facebook statuses?

Literally all you can do in this situation is either accept that it sucks but it's not a real issue and nothing we can change, or you can get a gang and some AK-47's together and break them out of prison. I doubt anyone's going to do the latter.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

What can we do that would make the liberal one-issue types happy? All we can say is that it sucks. Even if we followed the liberal one-issue dogma and hopped on this like liberals did on the "Kony 2012" thing, what more could we do but buy t-shirts that say Free Pussy Riot and post Facebook statuses?

Literally all you can do in this situation is either accept that it sucks but it's not a real issue and nothing we can change, or you can get a gang and some AK-47's together and break them out of prison. I doubt anyone's going to do the latter.

One could say exactly the same thing about any problem in any other country apart from one's own, so I don't see why every thread involving Pussy Riot has to always have a certain chorus of asses braying to the tune of "wah wah teh libruls!!1!!", unless of course there's a contingent on this forum with a soft spot for the Russian government.

[Jack]

One could say exactly the same thing about any problem in any other country apart from one's own, so I don't see why every thread involving Pussy Riot has to always have a certain chorus of asses braying to the tune of "wah wah teh libruls!!1!!", unless of course there's a contingent on this forum with a soft spot for the Russian government.

Because otherwise the threads would just be circlejerks of "o noes thats baaaad" without any actual discussion.

Oh of course we're just all Putinistas because we don't fall in line with the latest pop culture "social justice" issue of the month.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

Because otherwise the threads would just be circlejerks of "o noes thats baaaad" without any actual discussion.

So enlighten me, what's the difference between a "liberal circle-jerk" and an oh-so-effective discussion by politically orthodox Party drones?

Oh wait, they effect just as much change in the real world as each other (that's what you meant with all that nonsense about breaking out AKs, right?).


Oh of course we're just all Putinistas because we don't fall in line with the latest pop culture "social justice" issue of the month.

There's certainly no good reason for any soft-pedalling of the Russian regime. Somebody else mentioned that they were up to no good elsewhere, which hardly surprises me. Yet the ire is directed at imagined "liberals", rather than that authoritarian piece of shit Putin and his government.

[Rugged Collectivist]

Lol "communists" defending the rights of the church.



Pussy Riot is the least of my worries, and it's also the least of worries of Russian communists.
Russia is rotten to the core, but not because of Pussy Riot members being given 2 years in prison for hooliganism.
Pussy Riot is barely worth a mention.

Anyone getting two years for hooliganism should be defended because that's a serious injustice. And if you think it's "barely worth a mention" you can go right ahead and fuck yourself.

[MEGAMANTROTSKY]

What can we do that would make the liberal one-issue types happy? All we can say is that it sucks. Even if we followed the liberal one-issue dogma and hopped on this like liberals did on the "Kony 2012" thing, what more could we do but buy t-shirts that say Free Pussy Riot and post Facebook statuses?

Literally all you can do in this situation is either accept that it sucks but it's not a real issue and nothing we can change, or you can get a gang and some AK-47's together and break them out of prison. I doubt anyone's going to do the latter.
That wasn't the issue at hand here. What I initially took offense to was that you and others declared it to be a non-issue--not simply that it "sucks". The Pussy Riot incident, to be sure, has been dolled up by the bourgeois media in order to exert pressure on the Russian government. Nobody here disputes that, as far as I can see. But instead of seeing through the ruse and exposing it, you actually accept the bourgeois narrative in a bizarre fashion by claiming since liberals latch on to it, PR's treatment by the Russian state has absolutely no relevance to Marxists--and in the process you end up adopting the same outlook and attitude of the same institutions that imprisoned them. How truly ironic!

This is no accident, of course. Your view is fairly typical of the pragmatic outlook that characterizes Stalinism. What you have done here is start from the facts--but that's all. PR's imprisonment and sealed fate are taken as given and static. From here, you treated it as a completely independent issue instead of the product of the continuing alliance between Putin and the Orthodox Church and in turn, in the context of the international class struggle. And what is your rationalization for this?

"Literally all you can do in this situation is either accept that it sucks but it's not a real issue and nothing we can change...."

Taken to its logical conclusion, this argument can be used to justify anything. And the proof seems to be here; by taking part in the potshot campaign against Pussy Riot, you are effectively issuing an apologia for the Orthodox Church and the Putin administration along with their treatment of any artists who also cross them.

Edit: There also seems to be some a latent conservative attitude here--that is, the revulsion against pop culture as opposed to engaging with and understanding it. But I'll leave that can of worms for others to sift through.

[Beeth]

The liberal media gives all attention to celebrities, and what do leftists (supposed to be champions of the common man) do? Well, you know what they do. Anyone who doesn't spend every minute of the day supporting rich celebrities and their spoilt ways is a supporter of Orthodox Church!

[Jack]

That wasn't the issue at hand here. What I initially took offense to was that you and others declared it to be a non-issue--not simply that it "sucks". The Pussy Riot incident, to be sure, has been dolled up by the bourgeois media in order to exert pressure on the Russian government. Nobody here disputes that, as far as I can see. But instead of seeing through the ruse and exposing it, you actually accept the bourgeois narrative in a bizarre fashion by claiming since liberals latch on to it, PR's treatment by the Russian state has absolutely no relevance to Marxists--and in the process you end up adopting the same outlook and attitude of the same institutions that imprisoned them. How truly ironic!

But it doesn't have any relevance, it's completely unrelated to class struggle. Pussy Riot is a group that thrives on attention and being controversial, if you want to claim they're "political prisoners" or anything like that take into consideration that what they did was illegal and not the first time they had done something like that. There are pictures available of them having an orgy in the Museum of Biology, for instance. The entire thing reeks of nothing but attention seeking behavior and an urge to be "controversial" and off putting as if it actually accomplishes something.


This is no accident, of course. Your view is fairly typical of the pragmatic outlook that characterizes Stalinism.

Why do you have to bring up that I'm a "Stalinist" as if this somehow voids my opinions on the issue? What's wrong with being pragmatic anyways? It's better than getting emotionally involved in a non-issue of some girls getting just 2 years in prison halfway across the globe and trying to do some mental gymnastics to link the issue to proletarian interests.


What you have done here is start from the facts--but that's all. PR's imprisonment and sealed fate are taken as given and static. From here, you treated it as a completely independent issue instead of the product of the continuing alliance between Putin and the Orthodox Church and in turn, in the context of the international class struggle. And what is your rationalization for this?

Because it's not simply a "product", they committed numerous crimes, once again whether or not you see this as fair, there are plenty of people in your own prisons serving sentences for crimes they didn't even commit. Once again this isn't some groundbreaking news that the Russian justice system and the Orthodox Church are intertwined, it's barely an issue at all. I don't understand why Pussy Riot have been turned into martyrs for any reason other than media sensationalism.



"Literally all you can do in this situation is either accept that it sucks but it's not a real issue and nothing we can change...."

Taken to its logical conclusion, this argument can be used to justify anything. And the proof seems to be here; by taking part in the potshot campaign against Pussy Riot, you are effectively issuing an apologia for the Orthodox Church and the Putin administration along with their treatment of any artists who also cross them.

This isn't a black and white issue, to say that by pointing out this is a non-proletarian unimportant issue I'm taking the side of Putin and the Russian Orthodox Church is ridiculous.


Edit: There also seems to be some a latent conservative attitude here--that is, the revulsion against pop culture as opposed to engaging with and understanding it. But I'll leave that can of worms for others to sift through.

There is nothing to "engage" or "understand" here, it's one of the media's pet issues, if you don't see now that they use sensationalism to sell their news I really suggest you turn on the TV and see a rewind of the last year or so. Spreading lies about Gaddafi, reporting fake stories in Syria, the whole Trayvon Martin debacle, Pussy Riot, etc. It's all for the views and the sensationalism, the Pussy Riot affair is not an issue of class or imperialism.

[MEGAMANTROTSKY]

But it doesn't have any relevance, it's completely unrelated to class struggle. Pussy Riot is a group that thrives on attention and being controversial, if you want to claim they're "political prisoners" or anything like that take into consideration that what they did was illegal and not the first time they had done something like that. There are pictures available of them having an orgy in the Museum of Biology, for instance. The entire thing reeks of nothing but attention seeking behavior and an urge to be "controversial" and off putting as if it actually accomplishes something.
How is the arrest of artists for making political statements unrelated to the class struggle? And why does it matter if those statements are made illegally or not? As for the “attention seeking behavior”, that orgy (named “Fuck for the heir Puppy Bear!”) was actually carried out by a group of performers known as Voina, although two members of PR participated, one of whom was pregnant at the time. So what it really boils down to here is that you personally dislike them. Next time you engage in mudslinging, please be more thorough in your research.

Why do you have to bring up that I'm a "Stalinist" as if this somehow voids my opinions on the issue? What's wrong with being pragmatic anyways? It's better than getting emotionally involved in a non-issue of some girls getting just 2 years in prison halfway across the globe and trying to do some mental gymnastics to link the issue to proletarian interests.
Being a Stalinist doesn’t “void” your opinion on the issue, and I didn’t mean to imply otherwise. But your next sentence introduces an interesting—and no less false—dichotomy between being pragmatic and being “emotionally involved”, with the former supposedly carrying a connotation of scientific detachment. Just because your attitude has gotten strong responses does not mean that everybody else has lost their bearings. It is simply that the defense of artists (pretentiously silly or not) from state persecution seems fairly elementary for a Marxist; being that art and (pop) culture are an intricate part of society, they are integral to engaging the masses in the thick of the class struggle.

Because it's not simply a "product", they committed numerous crimes, once again whether or not you see this as fair, there are plenty of people in your own prisons serving sentences for crimes they didn't even commit. Once again this isn't some groundbreaking news that the Russian justice system and the Orthodox Church are intertwined, it's barely an issue at all. I don't understand why Pussy Riot have been turned into martyrs for any reason other than media sensationalism.
As I said before, you're correct about the sensationalism, and yes, I agree that PR isn't the most important thing "evar" or whatever. And no, it's not "simply" a product, but it is a product of an ongoing process in Russian society that is intimately connected to one of the methods of class rule in Russia. It must be evaluated in that context. Exposing it to the masses and showing why it should be combated seems to be the more logical step for me instead of dismissing it entirely as "not groundbreaking news" Jon Stewart dismissed the Collateral Murder video for the same reason. But I'll get to that later, as your attitude here is a part of your philosophical method and I want to give it more attention.

This isn't a black and white issue, to say that by pointing out this is a non-proletarian unimportant issue I'm taking the side of Putin and the Russian Orthodox Church is ridiculous.
Actually, you’re the one treating it in black-and-white. Since this “issue” involved the jailing of petty-bourgeois anarchists who engage in exhibitionism, for you it follows that any media attention bestowed upon them it is nothing more than a “petty” distraction, a common bourgeois technique in line with religion. Since you reduce it to the media attention it’s receiving and fully reject it, I will still hold that you are issuing a form of apologia for the state and church. Not to mention you seem very fond of pointing out the “illegality” of PR’s actions. Would you take issue with a revolution or a strike if it was “illegal” or “controversial”? You’re essentially playing by the rules of bourgeois public opinion and it does not speak well of your method.

There is nothing to "engage" or "understand" here, it's one of the media's pet issues, if you don't see now that they use sensationalism to sell their news I really suggest you turn on the TV and see a rewind of the last year or so. Spreading lies about Gaddafi, reporting fake stories in Syria, the whole Trayvon Martin debacle, Pussy Riot, etc. It's all for the views and the sensationalism, the Pussy Riot affair is not an issue of class or imperialism.
Unfortunately, I haven’t owned a TV in several years, so I cannot test your theory. For now I’ll assume that you’re correct and that the Pussy Riot incident is being played up for sensationalism. If that’s the case, people including the working class must inevitably watch it, perhaps even be taken unawares by the ploy. So, what to do? Do you plan to approach the workers and say that such issues are all “ploys” and nothing more? If a worker happens to bring up Pussy Riot or something regarding identity politics or culture, do you plan to also dismiss it as “not an issue of class or imperialism”? Taking part in strikes is not the only way to build a bridge to socialist consciousness. Attention must be given to matters of this very same “sensationalism” and “views” and how they are reflected in the minds of working people. The mass media, in my opinion, must surely play into their everyday lives and concerns. We must, as well. Without also taking psychology and the cultural dynamics of bourgeois society into account, winning the workers to socialism will be very difficult, if not impossible.

But you seem to mostly a be a practical sort, not the type to dabble about in issues that do not fit your criteria of class struggle. So instead, you turn a blind eye to PR, simultaneously imposing your “personal” standards on what kind of behavior should be defended or not. Mudslinging, blind dismissal of superstructural elements, abstentionism in prominent issues, and tunnel-vision on what the “class struggle” fully encompasses—and now your pragmatism has led you right into the camp of bourgeois public opinion. And in my opinion, this constitutes a part of the essence of Stalinism.

[Ocean Seal]

Communist Forum
About 1/2 of the posters are asking why people care about a band that was imprisoned because of blasphemy.
Its an issue that gained notoriety, so we attached ourselves to the bandwagon. And quite reasonably so. It stands to defend all those who were wrongly persecuted by the Russian state for having an opinion which differed with Putins. And of course this is not a defense of liberalism, because IIRC we also disagree with Putin. It would be quite good then if we were able to get rid of him. An improvement is an improvement.

[Rafiq]

The liberal media gives all attention to celebrities, and what do leftists (supposed to be champions of the common man) do? Well, you know what they do. Anyone who doesn't spend every minute of the day supporting rich celebrities and their spoilt ways is a supporter of Orthodox Church!

You know Beeth, I'm getting real tired of your shit. Just look at Beeth's posts and you'll see what I mean.

[Rafiq]

The common man is victim to false consciousness. You've proven yourself a reactionary by denying Amaderjader's denial of the holocaust, you're baseless criticism of Marxism (and trust me Beeth, when I get to a computer I swear I'm going to shove my foot up your ass in regards) your social conservatism, you're sympathy with David Icke (you actually take him seriously)and you're unconscious apologia for Hitler. I'm counting the days until you're finally restricted. The last thing this forum needs is a closet reactionary.

[Beeth]

The common man is victim to false consciousness. You've proven yourself a reactionary by denying Amaderjader's denial of the holocaust, you're baseless criticism of Marxism (and trust me Beeth, when I get to a computer I swear I'm going to shove my foot up your ass in regards) your social conservatism, you're sympathy with David Icke (you actually take him seriously)and you're unconscious apologia for Hitler. I'm counting the days until you're finally restricted. The last thing this forum needs is a closet reactionary.

What are you - the ayatollah of communism?:lol: