Ahmadinejad holocaust denial & threat to nuke Israel

[Althusser]

I've been looking for a while, and all I can find is people talking about him denying the holocaust and threatening to wipe Israel off the map. Where and in what context did he say anything like this?

[Yazman]

He didn't "threaten to wipe Israel off the map", it was a mistranslation of a flowery metaphor, a way of speaking that is common in Farsi and I guess is easily manipulated by so-called "journalists" looking to further the government's agenda. It was more a criticism of Israel as a colonial state and stating that such a thing should not exist.

**UPDATE**

I feel like I shouldn't say this without citation so I tracked down the original article I read that described it:

http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/04/17/israeli-minister-agrees-ahmadinejad-never-said-israel-must-be-wiped-off-the-map/

[anarchomedia]

Everything you read about Iran and Ahmadinejad in the MSM is shameless and transparent black propaganda, aimed at setting up the frothy mouthed flagwavers for yet another pointless imperial war.

[barbelo]

Yeah guys, damn jewish media and their black (?) propaganda, it's not like Ahmadinejad held the International Conference to Review the Global Vision of the Holocaust, inviting David Duke.

[Danielle Ni Dhighe]

He didn't threaten to wipe Israel off the map, but he is a Holocaust denier.

[Beeth]

He didn't threaten any nation. Neither is he a holocaust denier. It is plain propaganda, nothing more.

[Os Cangaceiros]

Yeah guys, damn jewish media and their black (?) propaganda, it's not like Ahmadinejad held the International Conference to Review the Global Vision of the Holocaust, inviting David Duke.

I'm not sure what he meant by black propaganda, but the rest of that statement is pretty much entirely true. The "mainstream media", meaning primarily the major news networks in the USA, are outrageous in their coverage on Iran. Not just Fox or right-wing radio, either. All the networks will happily spout off about anything from the ridiculous drug cartel-Iranian plot to murder the Saudi ambassador, to the "wipe Israel off the map" statement, etc.

That's not to say that Mahmoud isn't one slimy slime ball, but...

[Danielle Ni Dhighe]

Neither is he a holocaust denier.
The International Conference to Review the Global Vision of the Holocaust was exactly that, even if Iran's Foreign Minister sought to portray it as "an opportunity for thinkers who cannot express their views freely in Europe about the Holocaust." The only view of the Holocaust frowned upon in Europe is the view that it didn't happen.

[Yazman]

Yeah guys, damn jewish media and their black (?) propaganda, it's not like Ahmadinejad held the International Conference to Review the Global Vision of the Holocaust, inviting David Duke.

That's all well and good but it is a fact that he did not threaten to wipe Israel off the map. He may have said some stuff like holocaust denial that actually is pretty fucked up, but that doesn't mean we should perpetrate lies.

Criticise him for what is actually true (like holocaust denial) and not for something that was never even said.

[barbelo]

I'm not sure what he meant by black propaganda, but the rest of that statement is pretty much entirely true. The "mainstream media", meaning primarily the major news networks in the USA, are outrageous in their coverage on Iran. Not just Fox or right-wing radio, either. All the networks will happily spout off about anything from the ridiculous drug cartel-Iranian plot to murder the Saudi ambassador, to the "wipe Israel off the map" statement, etc.

That's not to say that Mahmoud isn't one slimy slime ball, but...

Having worked during 2 years as the illustrator of a "big" newspaper, I find amazing that people still talk of "mainstream media" in our age, as if there is a centralized and organized interest in this field.
The companies simply focus on a target public by affinity and produce information accordingly.
If you don't agree with their views on Iran, you shouldn't even be watching them in the first place; and I'm sure you can find a lot of american medias that takes the opposite stance (i. e. Salon).

Now let me tell you about Iran's state run media, imprisioned cartoonists and censorship...


That's all well and good but it is a fact that he did not threaten to wipe Israel off the map. He may have said some stuff like holocaust denial that actually is pretty fucked up, but that doesn't mean we should perpetrate lies.

Criticise him for what is actually true (like holocaust denial) and not for something that was never even said.

In his last speech at UN he said that the messiah will come and will destroy a certain small minority who controls the world and is leading it to a second middle ages.

But... I guess he is opposed to Usa, so this makes him an automatic hero.

[Yazman]

barbelo, let me once again RE-quote for you what I said in my last post since you didn't seem to pay much attention to it:


Criticise him for what is actually true (like holocaust denial) and not for something that was never even said.I am NOT a supporter of the Iranian government, and I am NOT a supporter of Ahmadinejad. However, it is a fact that he did not threaten to wipe Israel off the map. That is a lie and it isn't true.

My point here is that just because we don't support something it doesn't mean we should defend lies. A lie is still a lie and I'm not going to sit there and let a lie stand. Furthermore, there's ENOUGH to criticise the Iranian government for - you DON'T need to resort to lies.

[barbelo]

My point here is that just because we don't support something it doesn't mean we should defend lies. A lie is still a lie and I'm not going to sit there and let a lie stand. Furthermore, there's ENOUGH to criticise the Iranian government for - you DON'T need to resort to lies.

I didn't thought you were expressing support for Ahmadinejad, and I also didn't mentioned the infamous and ambiguous phrase of "wiping Israel off the map".
What could serve discussing it? The ambiguity is on purpose, just like anything related to the recent middle east conflict, nuclear capability, Israel and Syria; the same ambiguity of inviting David Duke on one side and visiting Fidel Castro on the other.

And gosh, it's so relieving, "vanishing from the pages of time" as referring to a country/people/government/ethno-political movement/[insert here what you think he meant]... I don't know why people are extracting such bigoted and hateful interpretations. Must be the lies of the estabilishment indeed.

[l'Enfermé]

The whole Holocaust denial/Holocaust skepticism stuff is racist gibberish obviously but Ahmadenijad wouldn't be much of an anti-Zionist if he didn't want to wipe Israel off the map. The dismantlement of the Zionist entity is a necessity for peace in the Middle East.

[Art Vandelay]

The man's a nut case.

[barbelo]

as you mentioning racists
why dont you explain your posts here..

What I need to explain?
I think I'm very clear (even emphatic) here in Revleft in my stance when I say that opposition to Israel seems like one the biggest and most ridiculous incoherences of the recent left to me.
I can't find a better example than this thread itself; people defending a guy who invited the former head of the KKK to a conference, against the "lies of the mainstream media".

If you consider me less of a "comrade" because of this... I can only recommend you to see this very informative video (http://youtu.be/K5wocno4NS8), suprisingly made by what would be considered a far right israeli newspaper.
(And no, I'm not an anti-german)

[RadioRaheem84]

Having worked during 2 years as the illustrator of a "big" newspaper, I find amazing that people still talk of "mainstream media" in our age, as if there is a centralized and organized interest in this field.

We're not conspiracy theorists. The point is that there is no need for a centralized authority, and journalists can venture where they want but they have no sensation of a leash around their neck cus they sit by the peg. It is only when they stray too far that they feel the restraining tug.

Thus far and no further - Noam Chomsky.

[Rafiq]

Barbelo wtf? We're supposed to be "surprised"?

Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk 2

[RadioRaheem84]

I think I'm very clear (even emphatic) here in Revleft in my stance when I say that opposition to Israel seems like one the biggest and most ridiculous incoherences of the recent left to me.
I can't find a better example than this thread itself; people defending a guy who invited the former head of the KKK to a conference, against the "lies of the mainstream media".


:blink: ???

No one is defending the guy, barbelo. And what is with the support for Israel?

The article that was linked clearly points to the fact that the mainstream media is misquoting him to spur up anti-Iranian sentiment.

[Yazman]

Wait, so, Barbelo, you're just pro-Israel? That's behind your posts here? I can't see how you could possibly find it confusing for revolutionary leftists to be anti-Zionist.

Israel is the result of Europeans colonising Palestine, sanctioned by the British, in an effort to build an ethnic state because god told them the land should be theirs.

1. anti-colonialism
2. anti-nationalism
3. Against ethnic states
4. Against the creation of states because of imaginary beings like "god"

That is part of why many revolutionary leftists are anti-Zionist.

[cynicles]

Wait, so, Barbelo, you're just pro-Israel? That's behind your posts here? I can't see how you could possibly find it confusing for revolutionary leftists to be anti-Zionist.

Israel is the result of Europeans colonising Palestine, sanctioned by the British, in an effort to build an ethnic state because god told them the land should be theirs.

1. anti-colonialism
2. anti-nationalism
3. Against ethnic states
4. Against the creation of states because of imaginary beings like "god"

That is part of why many revolutionary leftists are anti-Zionist.
Really if you can't be against atleast all those things you're not on the revolutionary left though, it's not just a matter of most.

[barbelo]

Really if you can't be against atleast all those things you're not on the revolutionary left though, it's not just a matter of most.

But I thought Palestinian religion, ethnicity and nationalism are the very same reasons Palestinians doesn't accept the Zionist occupation and need their (or their grandfathers) land back.
Or maybe nationalism, religion and ethnicity aren't so bad when coming from the victim/underdog mouth.

Sorry OP for derailing the thread in a total off-topic discussion.

[Ostrinski]

But I thought Palestinian religion, ethnicity and nationalism was the very same reasons Palestinians doesn't accept the Zionist occupation and need their land back.
Or maybe nationalism, religion and ethnicity aren't so bad when it's in a victim/underdog mouth.

Sorry OP for derailing the thread in a total off-topic discussion.I tend to think that the reason Palestinians resent the Zionists is the burtalization, the massacres, the displacement, the overall injustice of the situation rather than just hating Jews or people of a different ethnicity. I'd go as far as to say that most would be fine with sharing a unified Palestine with Jews, a state with no enforced ethnic or religious hierarchy, a state that lets them live where they please and roam where they please.

Of course, that doesn't mean that there doesn't exist a fair share of hatred for Jews or Semites in Palestine, but such is a natural social fallout of the existing arrangements.