The Passion

[Domino]

I just hate this movie and I don't even watch it yet. I know, it's stupid. I just think of all the anti-semitism it will cause. Mel Gibson is putting all the blame of Jesus' crucifixion on the jews more than on the Romans who are the ones that actually did it. This is what I've heard, I would have to watch the movie to actually judge, but I refuse to pay a ticket to see Mel Gibson preach about Jesus' goodness when he was just a crazy guy that believed he was messiah.

This are old news but... as you know, Jim Caviezel (who plays Jesus) was struck by a lightning during the film, and another member of the crew was struck by ANOTHER lightning. Neither of them were badly injured so I can laugh at it.

I don't know, but it sounds to me like somebody is mad :lol: But that's just me... it was probably a strange coincidence... I like to think it wasn't.

[ComradeRed]

Most things with mel gibson are bad/patriotic/imperialistic.

[Domino]

For sure. And the guy is a... what's the word in english... -'mocho', if someone knows how you say it please let me know- I mean, his life is ruled by religion. No wonder he has so many kids, he's probably the kind that says he must have as many kids as 'God' sends him.

[SonofRage]

In all fairness, the Jews didn't exactly go out of their way to help him either. They even had a chance to help him get free if I remember correctly. There's some holiday where the Romans would choose one prisoner to set free but the Jews in the area chose to set from murderer free instead of Jeebus.

[Domino]

That's true, comrade. They had fault of his death, but so as the Romans who actually killed him. Anyway, the reason why they didn't save him in the first place is because he wasn't the messiah and he was using God's name in vain. I think that is no reason to let a man die, he was just crazy, but I don't know why Christians like Mel Gibson hate jews for letting him die, after all, they have NO proof that he was the messiah.

[(*]

Mel Gibson is one of my favorite actors.

Monica Bellucci is in the movie as well :)


I wouldn't read too much into the movie (as far as how it relates to mel gibson personally...although he is a devout Catholic..so I'm not too sure). It is the 'Controversy' that will sell tickets anyway.

[SonofRage]

Originally posted by [email protected] 27 2003, 04:11 AM
That's true, comrade. They had fault of his death, but so as the Romans who actually killed him. Anyway, the reason why they didn't save him in the first place is because he wasn't the messiah and he was using God's name in vain. I think that is no reason to let a man die, he was just crazy, but I don't know why Christians like Mel Gibson hate jews for letting him die, after all, they have NO proof that he was the messiah.
Yes, I would agree. It seems very irrational for people who view a Jew as their savior to be anti-Jew. Also, as I understand it, was the whole proof of him being Messiah because he was born of a virgin was based on a mistranslation of the original text. A Jewish friend of mine say that the word that was translated as "virgin" really means something along the lines of "young girl."

[Domino]

Monica is so damn beautiful! :wub:

I agree, the controversy will sell, but the empty headed audience will start taking it against the jews once again. (Though I don't think that ever stops.)

[Domino]

Originally posted by [email protected] 27 2003, 03:19 AM
A Jewish friend of mine say that the word that was translated as "virgin" really means something along the lines of "young girl."
Wow, I didn't know that! :blink: Well that explains a lot. I also knew that Marie had an affair with a Roman soldier and that's why she got pregnant, so to cover it up she got married and then said she was inpreganted by the Holy Spirit.

[(*]

the empty headed audience will start taking it against the jews

But is that Mel Gibsons fault? I guess it will all depend on how he portrays the events. I too will wait until I see the movie before I pass judgement.

It might result in a slight increase of anti-semitism. By and large though, I don't think it will spark anything. In America anyway. The relationship between the intended audience of the movie and Judaism are very closely linked now.

[SonofRage]

If you watch the film "Snatch" this mistranslation issue is actually mentioned by some of the characters early in the story when some of the characters are disguised as Rabbies

[(*]

A Jewish friend of mine say that the word that was translated as "virgin" really means something along the lines of "young girl."

I think the word virgin is meant to be taken literally. The same thing is believed by Muslims.


I also knew that Marie had an affair with a Roman soldier and that's why she got pregnant, so to cover it up she got married and then said she was inpreganted by the Holy Spirit.

You make it sound as if it is factual. Just curious where you heard it.


*Edit* fixed quotes

[Domino]

True! Benicio Del Toro with that weird tone of voice. I own that flick, I'll watch thats scene again.

[Domino]

Originally posted by (*@Dec 27 2003, 03:33 AM
You make it sound as if it is factual. Just curious where you heard it.
On TV. I'm not 100% sure, but I think it was on the History Channel.

[SonofRage]

Originally posted by (*@Dec 27 2003, 04:33 AM

A Jewish friend of mine say that the word that was translated as "virgin" really means something along the lines of "young girl."

I think the word virgin is meant to be taken literally. The same thing is believed by Muslims.

My point is that the word does not mean "virgin" at all and it is only because of a mistranslation that the word was used.

[(*]

The scriptures do contain references that support the idea that she was literally a virgin.

I was just reading on another site that "Son of God" has been mistranslated. It might have meant "Servant of God"

[Domino]

That's the problems with religion and their holy books, everything is mistranslated.

EDIT (to not post again): I know, but I think I heard it on that channel. It was this week, actually.

[(*]

Originally posted by tetelives+Dec 27 2003, 04:35 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (tetelives @ Dec 27 2003, 04:35 AM)
(*@Dec 27 2003, 03:33 AM
You make it sound as if it is factual. Just curious where you heard it.
On TV. I&#39;m not 100% sure, but I think it was on the History Channel. [/b]
Interesting, that channel has a lot of shows about Jesus. I watched about 3 today. I don&#39;t recall ever hearing that though, which is why I asked.

[Sabocat]

The film will be interesting in as much as it&#39;s being filmed with the actors speaking completely in some dead languages like Aramaic (sp?).

The film is supposed to depict the last 12 hours of christ. It&#39;s supposed to be particularly gruesome and bloody.

I&#39;ll look at this film like any other fairy tale fiction like Lord of the Rings. :lol:

Monica Bellucci plays Mary Magdaline.....a least it&#39;s another Bellucci vehicle. :wub:

[Se7en]

What&#39;s curious is how people have distorted the prophets into men/women who could see thousands of years into the future. They made predictions based on their current situations and for whomever they were employed by. At the most they WARNED the jews of what could POSSIBLY happen in the future if they didn&#39;t get their act together.

and yes, &#39;virgin&#39; should be read &#39;young girl.&#39; virgin births of messiahs are found in pagan religions long before christianity created. it is not of jewish origin.

[RedComrade]

I&#39;m no christian but i think calling this movie anti-semitic is absolutely ridiculous; especially considering the accusers haven&#39;t even seen it yet. And as for Jesus&#39;s death it was the ancient jews who were responsible, the romans were indifferent. The Romans sole interest was to prevent popular unrest.

John 19:4-16

Once more Pilate came out and said to the Jews, "Look, I am bringing him out to you to let you know that I find no basis for a charge against him." When Jesus came out wearing the crown of thorns and the purple robe, Pilate said to them, "Here is the man&#33;"
As soon as the chief priests and their officials say him they shouted, "Crucify&#33; Crucify&#33;"
But Pilate answered, "You take him and crucify him. As for me, I find no basis for a charge against him."
The Jews insisted, "We have a law, and according to that law he must die, because he claimed to be the Son of God."
When Pilate heard this, he was even more afraid, and he went back inside the palace. "Where do you come from?" he asked Jesus, but Jesus gave him no answer. "Do you refuse to speak to me?" Pilate said. "Dont you realize I have power to either free you or crucify you?"
Jesus answered, "You would have no power over me if it were not given to you from above Therefore the one who handed me over to you is guilty of a greater sin,"
From then on, Pilate tried to set Jesus free but the Jews kept shouting, "If you let this man go, you are no friend of Ceaser. Anyone who claims to be a king opposes Ceaser."
When pilate heard this, he brought Jesus out and set down on the judge&#39;s seat at a place known as the Stone Pavement. It was the day of Preparation of Passover Week, about the sixth hour.
"Here is your king," Pilate said to the Jews.
But they shouted, "Take him away&#33; Crucify him&#33;"
"Shall I crucify your king?" Pilate asked.
"We have no king but Ceaser," the cheif priests answered.
Finally Pilate handed him over to the Jews to be crucified.

I can&#39;t see why we as communists would favor Judaism over christianity, if anything Judaism is more reactionary. Why support one tyranny over another? If the Jews and Xians want to fight let them, the more theists caught up in petty squabbles amongst themselves the better.

[redstar2000]

If the Jews and Xians want to fight, let them; the more theists caught up in petty squabbles amongst themselves the better.

True enough, I suppose. Still, some of us occasionally find it amusing to point out the ridiculous historical errors that both sides make.

For example, the legend that "Mary" had an affair with a Roman soldier first appears around 150CE...there&#39;s nothing to prove that it ever happened. It makes a plausible tale though; his name was supposed to have been "Pantera" or something like that.

The "Gospel" according to "John" is also quite late--120CE at the earliest. It was written when "Christianity" was already an established "rival" to Judaism and is viciously anti-semitic, much more so than the earlier three "gospels". "John" is also much more "encrusted" with mythology...I believe "Jesus" raises at least four different people from the dead, not counting "Himself", in that "gospel". The chronology is quite different as well.

The transformation of "young woman" into "virgin" is attributed to "Matthew"...the most "Jewish" of the "gospels". "Matthew" tried to write the "life" of "Jesus" as if every important event was "foretold" in Jewish scripture...and he had to stretch quite a bit to make some connections.

The movie sounds like a piece of shit; I&#39;ll give it a miss.

http://anarchist-action.org/forums/images/smiles/redstar.gif

The RedStar2000 Papers (http://www.anarchist-action.org/marxists/redstar2000/)
A site about communist ideas

[Domino]

Originally posted by [email protected] 1 2004, 08:34 AM
The movie sounds like a piece of shit; I&#39;ll give it a miss.
Agreed.

And why chose Judaism over Christianity, RedComrade? Why not? Why chose anyway? They are both religions, which communists are not supposed to follow, which I am aware of, even though I&#39;m jewish and I do follow my religion (but I&#39;m a Reform). But Christianity has done more &#39;damage&#39; to the mankind than any other religion. Starting from the inquisition, catholicism is a load of crap. Catholics have jewish beliefs and they either not know it, or just hate jews while they are adoring a bloody jew on a cross.