Movies That You Like That Don't Mesh With Your Beliefs

[statichaos]

I'll use Pixar's The Incredibles as an example.

I absolutely love this film. It's my favorite from the Pixar lineup. The heroism, the close-knit family, the witty dialogue, and the manner in which Brad Bird manages to both deconstruct and reconstruct the superhero myth are all quite remarkable.

Having said that, the film wouldn't be out of place at an Objectivist film festival, especially with the following exchange:

Elasti-Girl: Everyone's special in their own way.

Dash: That's just another way of saying that nobody is.

The concept of heroic individuals being resented and oppressed by the envious, cowardly masses is something straight out of the execrable Atlas Shrugged. What would likely be perfectly reasonable regulations against the use of potentially dangerous superpowers in real life are presented within the context of the film as onerous and unnecessary limitations upon the "rights" of those with said powers to use them as they see fit. And the villain is someone who wishes to be able to sell inventions to the masses, ones that will make these powers available to the public at large, meaning that (to echo the earlier comment by Dash) "When everyone is a superhero, no one will be".

So. Good guys: People with special abilities who wish to use them freely, but with no regulation or control so long as they're not actually committing crimes. Bad guy: Someone who wants everyone to be able to have said abilities. So the good guys wish to remain an elite, while the bad guy wishes for a more equitable distribution of these abilities, though admittedly through a capitalist system.

And yet I love the movie.

[Avanti]

most films

don't mesh up with radical

socialist beliefs

because hollywood

is a mouth-piece of babylon

[Yuppie Grinder]

I don't watch many films but no films except for some documentaries had to do with communism that I liked.
Favorite films are the goonies, space jam, and good burger.

[Panda Tse Tung]

Wow... far fetched.
I really liked a biographical film about Oswald Mosley, which portrayed him in a positive daylight (edit: more like, tried to look at the human aspect of course, still i was somewhat ashamed).
Beat that....

[statichaos]

most films

don't mesh up with radical

socialist beliefs

because hollywood

is a mouth-piece of babylon

That's as may be, but some films are more blatantly pro-capitalist than others.

[Avanti]

i enjoyed funny games

a lot

but then

it was pretty much

how i think

obnoxious

clean-cut

well-adjusted

middle class pets

should be treated

[statichaos]

Wow... far fetched.
I really liked a biographical film about Oswald Mosley, which portrayed him in a positive daylight (edit: more like, tried to look at the human aspect of course, still i was somewhat ashamed).
Beat that....

I thought that The Birth Of A Nation was brilliant, if repugnant in its message.

Here's a fun one:

The Avengers are made up of a symbol of American imperialist superiority (Captain America), a multi-billionaire capitalist defense contractor (Iron Man), the product of a monarchy who struggles with his adopted brother for control of a kingdom (Thor), a mindless monster who used to work for the Defense Department (The Hulk) two agents for an intelligence organization controlled by a shadowy cabal (Hawkeye and Black Widow), and the director of that organization (Nick Fury).

And yet the movie is AWESOME.

[Pretty Flaco]

Die Hard?

yippee ki yay motherfucker!

[statichaos]

Die Hard?

yippee ki yay motherfucker!

Oh, totally.

But half the fun is explaining exactly what aspects of the movie don't align with your political positions.

[ClassLiberator]

Prince of Egypt. Having been raised as a Jew(an atheist now), I have great memories with that movie in Hebrew school and with my family.

[TheGodlessUtopian]

I think that is stretching The Incredibles just a bit. I saw that exchange in a completely different light, namely, that it dispelled the myth of human individuality. Don't know how it could be seen as promoting individuality aside from the minor connotations of the speakers (I.E teen angst complaining about what is generally seen as fundamentally positive things). Still, as long as it doesn't go over into ultra-individualism I do not see a problem with it.

[statichaos]

I think that is stretching The Incredibles just a bit. I saw that exchange in a completely different light, namely, that it dispelled the myth of human individuality. Don't know how it could be seen as promoting individuality aside from the minor connotations of the speakers (I.E teen angst complaining about what is generally seen as fundamentally positive things). Still, as long as it doesn't go over into ultra-individualism I do not see a problem with it.

Dash saw his abilities as being superior to those of others, and felt that the circumstances imposed by the governmental rules were limiting his ability to express himself as an individual. If no one is special, then no one is remarkable, which means that he as an individual is no more remarkable than anyone else...which the rest of the movie dispels.

[Red Banana]

Contagion, there are several anti union jabs in that film, assertions that only private not public scientific research is effective, and it tries to glorify a con artist who made a fortune by selling a fake miracle drug to the savage masses. Overall good movie though, I love biothrillers.

[TheGodlessUtopian]

Dash saw his abilities as being superior to those of others, and felt that the circumstances imposed by the governmental rules were limiting his ability to express himself as an individual. If no one is special, then no one is remarkable, which means that he as an individual is no more remarkable than anyone else...which the rest of the movie dispels.

Hmmm... taken with the other parts I can see how that would be right up Ayn Rand's alley. I still think it is a bit of a conclusion but it isn't entirely inconceivable; but it could be taken more left-wing if one was so inclined. I will have to watch it again sometime soon with a more critical eye.

[Jesus Saves Gretzky Scores]

Ferris Bueller's Day Off. He's a reckless bourgeois young man who has no concern for education.

I don't know.

[statichaos]

Ferris Bueller's Day Off. He's a reckless bourgeois young man who has no concern for education.

I don't know.

He's also a bit of a sociopath, intentionally drawing his girlfriend and his supposed best friend into his schemes despite the protests of the latter, and showing a total willingness to blatantly lie to his obviously loving and concerned parents.

[Jesus Saves Gretzky Scores]

He's also a bit of a sociopath, intentionally drawing his girlfriend and his supposed best friend into his schemes despite the protests of the latter, and showing a total willingness to blatantly lie to his obviously loving and concerned parents.

I never thought I'd see such an in depth analysis of Ferris Bueller.

[Dennis the 'Bloody Peasant']

About 2/3rds of Bad Boys II...as a younger man I could go along with it until all the Cuba stuff in the end.
Up until that point I was chuckling at the gay jokes and gawping at the shiny guns, cars and flashes of female anatomy.
Teenage me had lower standards.

[statichaos]

I never thought I'd see such an in depth analysis of Ferris Bueller.

People make analysis of movies into such a dreary sounding enterprise, when for me it's always been an enjoyable intellectual one. However, I wouldn't consider a few sentences to be "in depth". That requires at least a page.


About 2/3rds of Bad Boys II...as a younger man I could go along with it until all the Cuba stuff in the end.
Up until that point I was chuckling at the gay jokes and gawping at the shiny guns, cars and flashes of female anatomy.
Teenage me had lower standards.

Teenage everyone had lower standards. That's the whole point of being a teenager. Back in the 1980s, I thought that The Breakfast Club was a masterpiece.

[Os Cangaceiros]

Contagion, there are several anti union jabs in that film, assertions that only private not public scientific research is effective, and it tries to glorify a con artist who made a fortune by selling a fake miracle drug to the savage masses. Overall good movie though, I love biothrillers.

"Contagion" did not really glorify Jude Law's character (the con artist), it made him look like an asshole.

[brigadista]

Carmen Jones

[Mass Grave Aesthetics]

La Grande Bouffe and the August Underground trilogy.

[Os Cangaceiros]

hahahaha the August Underground trilogy! :lol: Those movies are pretty apolitical, LOL

[Os Cangaceiros]

I remember watching "Triumph of the Will" and thinking that it was pretty good/interesting.

[bcbm]

red dawn, the rambo movies, like every arnold movie ever

80s action flicks generally, really

[Blake's Baby]

Just posting about going to see 'Skyfall' over on the 'latest movie' thread. One really can't like Bond movies; but I thought it was pretty good.

[bcbm]

oh yeah all the bond movies, especially the really old ones where everything is just blatantly terrible (from a 'left' perspective)

[Mass Grave Aesthetics]

hahahaha the August Underground trilogy! :lol: Those movies are pretty apolitical, LOL
For similar reasons as Mzas mention of Ferris Bueller. I would love to watch them with Omsk and Ismail.

[GiantMonkeyMan]

Star Wars. Obvious negative aspects from a leftist perspective but, fuck you, lightsabers.

[statichaos]

red dawn, the rambo movies, like every arnold movie ever

80s action flicks generally, really

Oh, God, how could I forget Red Dawn? That movie is the guiltiest of guilty pleasures. Bad acting, terrible plot, unrealistic action, politically reprehensible, and yet so much fun to watch.

[Rafiq]

Lotr

[statichaos]

Lotr

How do you see it as going against your belief system?

[Anarchocommunaltoad]

How do you see it as going against your belief system?

Evil races under the sway of a "darK" lord attempt to overrun the last bastions of (light skinned) nobility.

[Anarchocommunaltoad]

Also the DKR because of how blatantly anti revolutionary it is along with how it dares to affront the holy uber preparedness of the God damned Batman.

[statichaos]

Evil races under the sway of a "darK" lord attempt to overrun the last bastions of (light skinned) nobility.

Hah! Hadn't thought about that. Also, it's essentially a couple of oppressive monarchies (with the possible exception of the Hobbits, whose social organization they don't go into in any great detail) against another oppressive monarchy...and the "evil" oppressive monarchy actually provides industrial work for its subjects beyond subsistence farming and the military.

[Blake's Baby]

The Hobbits are the English squirarchy - Bilbo/Frodo are the squire in his country house (Frodo's cousins Merry and Pippin are more like aristocracy) and Sam etc are the salt-of-the-earth (but a bit dull) country folk who know their place and tug their forelock to 'Maaaaster Froodoo'. Meanwhile, there's a vague remembrance of a far-away benevolent but distant king.

It's kinda England c 1620 in my estimation. Most people still on the land, but mills and whatnot just coming in (the 'ugly' mill full of gears and wheels that Sandyman builds is a sign of his corruption).

Oh, and the orcs are the working class. Horrible old reactionary was Tolkien.

[GoddessCleoLover]

Tolkien was a reactionary petit-bourgeois intellectual, but I still enjoyed LOTR and would never support banning this work. I do recall reading online an "alternative" version of Tolkien's Middle Earth that I also really enjoyed, Kirll Yeskov's The Last Ringbearer.

[Blake's Baby]

Jeez, if we're talking about banning things that aren't revolutionary there's going to be precious little film literature theatre or any other form of art left. How about we don't even consider banning 'bourgeois' artworks?

[Red Banana]

"Contagion" did not really glorify Jude Law's character (the con artist), it made him look like an asshole.

At the very end in the scene where he's uncovered you're right, but all up until that point he's portrayed as a truth seeking journalist trying to investigate the shady workings of the government and drug companies while they seemingly stand by as people die. But even in the last scene with him, they couldn't just let his character go to jail like he should've; he was just loved so much by the people that they pitched up to post his multi million dollar bail. "Glorified" probably wasn't the best word to use though.

[Rafiq]

Sauron was the embodiment of the progressive-bourgeoisie fighting against the remnants of Feudalism through social progress and industry. The Goblins were the revolutionary ('corrupted' elves) rural petite bourgeoisie during the French Revolution. Sauron imposed social disorder on the 'natural order of things'. It's just out of Tolkien's benevolence that the "smallfolk" can be champions of reaction as well. Tolkien was not bourgeois. He was literally a feudal romanticist and a reactionary.

Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk 2

[Anarchocommunaltoad]

Sauron was the embodiment of the progressive-bourgeoisie fighting against the remnants of Feudalism through social progress and industry. The Goblins were the revolutionary ('corrupted' elves) rural petite bourgeoisie during the French Revolution. Sauron imposed social disorder on the 'natural order of things'. It's just out of Tolkien's benevolence that the "smallfolk" can be champions of reaction as well. Tolkien was not bourgeois. He was literally a feudal romanticist and a reactionary.

Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk 2

I was bullshitting, sometimes an orc is just an orc. TLOTR should be viewed as more of a allegorical/Jungian piece if you want to avoid it becoming a materialist mound of elf shit.

[Rugged Collectivist]

At the very end in the scene where he's uncovered you're right, but all up until that point he's portrayed as a truth seeking journalist trying to investigate the shady workings of the government and drug companies while they seemingly stand by as people die. But even in the last scene with him, they couldn't just let his character go to jail like he should've; he was just loved so much by the people that they pitched up to post his multi million dollar bail. "Glorified" probably wasn't the best word to use though.

When I saw the movie I viewed this character as a shot at the left. He came off as the selfless hero who wanted to protect the people by exposing the corrupt drug companies for what they really were, when in reality he was just a greedy prick who lied to everyone for his own personal gain. Thus proving that the government and the drug companies really are the good guys.

I can't think of any examples now, but I love the concept for this thread and I'll probably be back.

[Grenzer]

Sauron was the embodiment of the progressive-bourgeoisie fighting against the remnants of Feudalism through social progress and industry. The Goblins were the revolutionary ('corrupted' elves) rural petite bourgeoisie during the French Revolution. Sauron imposed social disorder on the 'natural order of things'. It's just out of Tolkien's benevolence that the "smallfolk" can be champions of reaction as well. Tolkien was not bourgeois. He was literally a feudal romanticist and a reactionary.

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This is outrageous! According to Hoxha, this amounts to little more than supporting imperialism!

[statichaos]

This thread is far more fun than I could have possibly hoped for when I first posted it.

[ClassLiberator]

A Bug's Life seems to have philosophical aspects of both the leftist and individualist mindset; Flick is different from the rest of the colony and develops his own ideas and pursues his own projects(individualism) but near the end he urges his fellow ants who work to profit the grasshoppers to overthrow them and mentions that they are a majority class thus being capable of this. Furthermore, he states quite plainly that ants should not be subservient. This sounds a lot like workers taking control of the means of production to me.

[Pretty Flaco]

Finding Nemo

[Doflamingo]

The Lion King.

[Will Scarlet]

El Cid is probably my favourite piece of fascist propaganda.

[statichaos]

Finding Nemo

Okay, I have to know: How does Finding Nemo not match up with your political positions?

[The Machine]

300, the dark knight trilogy, goodfellas, and of course scarface #sosa

[Buttress]

Finding Nemo

Something about the family unit?

For me it would probably be Antz, which has a really objectivist way about it, but I just like Woody Allen I guess, and it was a kids film that took itself reasonably seriously (though it does have a few pop-culture references that Dreamworks loves to shoehorn into their animation.. it isn't quite as bad as most of their films).

[GiantMonkeyMan]

A Bug's Life seems to have philosophical aspects of both the leftist and individualist mindset; Flick is different from the rest of the colony and develops his own ideas and pursues his own projects(individualism) but near the end he urges his fellow ants who work to profit the grasshoppers to overthrow them and mentions that they are a majority class thus being capable of this. Furthermore, he states quite plainly that ants should not be subservient. This sounds a lot like workers taking control of the means of production to me.
A revolution to put a Queen and Princess back in power is a metaphor for workers' control? :P

[TheRedAnarchist23]

never support banning this work.

You mean you support banning works which are not in accordance with the state's ideology?

STALINIST!!!!!!

[Rugged Collectivist]

Something about the family unit?

For me it would probably be Antz, which has a really objectivist way about it, but I just like Woody Allen I guess, and it was a kids film that took itself reasonably seriously (though it does have a few pop-culture references that Dreamworks loves to shoehorn into their animation.. it isn't quite as bad as most of their films).

I haven't seen Antz in a while but I distinctly remember it being pro communist at least to some extent.

[Red Future]

Come and See [1985] (Elim Klimov) .Great film

[Pretty Flaco]

Goodfellas
Ray
The Empire Strikes Back
Boyz N The Hood

[GoddessCleoLover]

You mean you support banning works which are not in accordance with the state's ideology?

STALINIST!!!!!!

I posted that I do NOT support banning works that fail to accord with "progressive" ideology. Reading is fundamental. Give it a try.

[Art Vandelay]

You mean you support banning works which are not in accordance with the state's ideology?

STALINIST!!!!!!

Mod's can you just delete this post?

[GoddessCleoLover]

I am more bemused than insulted, since I am often called a Trot but almost never a Stalinist. My purpose in responding was to encourage The Red Anarchist to be more thoughtful and less impulsive. Thanks to 9 mm for recognizing the absurdity of TRA's post.:thumbup1:

[Ocean Seal]

I guess I watch more tv than movies so I suppose reactionary tv that I've enjoyed: Criminal Minds (FBI guys who hunt serial killers, reactionary themes include: gypsy kidnappings, and Arab guys who are secretly Muslim terrorists when pretending to be Christian).

I like Law and Order SVU (even though every episode is about how decent cops are).

I liked the Godfather even though its about struggling to become what we would call "hood rich".

[GoddessCleoLover]

I liked the Godfather even though its about struggling to become what we would call "hood rich".


I enjoy gangster movies, not just The Godfather, but also Goodfellas and Miller's Crossing in particular. Enjoyed The Sopranos as well.

[Yuppie Grinder]

I live my life striving to be as much like Ferris Bueler as possible except a flamboyant communist.

[maskerade]

the lion king.

if i've learnt anything from this subforum, it's that leftists hate the lion king. it's reactionary as fuck - scar, the progressive character who promises that 'no one will go hungry again' and is turned into the bad guy and get's blamed for a drought even though he killed off an absolute monarch (granted he became one himself, but still). the hyenas are obviously manifestations of disney's failed subtle racism yet by any account are the true heroes. the lions keep them from eating and thus they grow hungry and become entrapped by scar's promises for food and land.

all that being said, i still love the movie. great music, it's happy and cheerful. it taught me some basics of swahili.

[maskerade]

the lion king.

if i've learnt anything from this subforum, it's that leftists hate the lion king. it's reactionary as fuck - scar, the progressive character who promises that 'no one will go hungry again' and is turned into the bad guy and get's blamed for a drought even though he killed off an absolute monarch (granted he became one himself, but still). the hyenas are obviously manifestations of disney's failed subtle racism yet by any account are the true heroes. the lions keep them from eating and thus they grow hungry and become entrapped by scar's promises for food and land.

all that being said, i still love the movie. great music, it's happy and cheerful. it taught me some basics of swahili.

[kashkin]

I've never liked The Lion King, and not just for its politics.

I quite like the Bond series. As for Star Wars, it is at the very least anti-fascist.

[TheRedAnarchist23]

Mod's can you just delete this post?

I thought I was in chit-chat...

[Rafiq]

I've never liked The Lion King, and not just for its politics.

I quite like the Bond series. As for Star Wars, it is at the very least anti-fascist.

No, it's not.

[bad ideas actualised by alcohol]

I've never liked The Lion King, and not just for its politics.

I quite like the Bond series. As for Star Wars, it is at the very least anti-fascist.

How are monarchist rebels anti-fascist?
How is the Empire and Darth Vader fascist, at least he killed some Buddhist monks who were training child-soldiers.

[Eleutheromaniac]

Rocky IV

[Rafiq]

How are monarchist rebels anti-fascist?
How is the Empire and Darth Vader fascist, at least he killed some Buddhist monks who were training child-soldiers.

Fuck star wars. But Vader was a people's hero a left wing populist.

[Yuppie Grinder]

lolol rafiq you read so much into everything
if you're going to be serious about this, the emperor is very clearly julius caesar

[Rafiq]

lolol rafiq you read so much into everything
if you're going to be serious about this, the emperor is very clearly julius caesar

I was serious about Tolkien...

(And Caesar's enemies were reactionaries)

[Yuppie Grinder]

Aren't you saying that both the enemies of the empire and juliius caesar are reactionaries?

[RadioRaheem84]

Bad Boys II was probably the most reactionary movie I've ever seen! LOL.

Also Iron Man is straight libertarian propaganda as is the Avengers.

I agree that the Incredibles had a lot of Randian jargon infused in it. Along with the Art Deco style of the film, it was all Randian.

[Questionable]

Do comic books count? Because holy shit Rorschach from Watchmen is probably one of my favorite fictional characters ever.

[piet11111]

Black hawk down even though its blatantly pro-imperialist and pro-army.

I liked the bits with the 2 machinegun guys where 1 of them is deafened.

[Trap Queen Voxxy]

Titanic.

[Rafiq]

Aren't you saying that both the enemies of the empire and juliius caesar are reactionaries?

Roman empire didn't exist under Julius. His political enemies were reactionaries.

[bad ideas actualised by alcohol]

Aren't you saying that both the enemies of the empire and juliius caesar are reactionaries?

Julius Caesar was actually quite the progressive, for ancient Rome standards of course, which ultimately got him killed by the senate, which was done to about anyone who advocated somewhat popular reforms.

[Crux]

If I say that the importance of the Divine Comedy lies in the fact that it gives me an understanding of the state of mind of certain classes in a certain epoch, this means that I transform it into a mere historical document, for, as a work of art, the Divine Comedy must speak in some way to my feelings and moods. Dante’s work may act on me in a depressing way, fostering pessimism and despondency in me, or, on the contrary, it may rouse, inspire, encourage me. This is the fundamental relationship between a reader and a work of art. Nobody, of course, forbids a reader to assume the role of a researcher and approach the Divine Comedy as merely an historical document. It is clear, though, that these two approaches are on two different levels, which, though connected, do not overlap. How is it thinkable that there should be not an historical but a directly aesthetic relationship between us and a medieval Italian book? This is explained by the fact that in class society, in spite of all its changeability, there are certain common features. Works of art developed in a medieval Italian city can, we find, affect us too. What does this require? A small thing: it requires that these feelings and moods shall have received such broad, intense, powerful expression as to have raised them above the limitations of the life of those days. Dante was, of course, the product of a certain social milieu. But Dante was a genius. He raised the experience of his epoch to a tremendous artistic height. And if we, while today approaching other works of medieval literature merely as objects of study, approach the Divine Comedy as a source of artistic perception, this happens not because Dante was a Florentine petty bourgeois of the 13th century but, to a considerable extent, in spite of that circumstance. Let us take, for instance, such an elementary psychological feeling as fear of death. This feeling is characteristic not only of man but also of animals. In man it first found simple articulate expression, and later also artistic expression. In different ages, in different social milieux, this expression has changed, that is to say, men have feared death in different ways. And nevertheless what was said on this score not only by Shakespeare, Byron, Goethe, but also by the Psalmist, can move us.

[Jesus Saves Gretzky Scores]

People make analysis of movies into such a dreary sounding enterprise, when for me it's always been an enjoyable intellectual one. However, I wouldn't consider a few sentences to be "in depth". That requires at least a page.

I don't think it's dreary.

Also, in depth was a joke.

[Anarchocommunaltoad]

How are monarchist rebels anti-fascist?
How is the Empire and Darth Vader fascist, at least he killed some Buddhist monks who were training child-soldiers.

Although some of their most influential members hailed from the "enlightened" aristocracy, the rebellion still was anti fascist due to its opposition to an extremely bigoted and militarized Space dictatorship. And Vader isn't a hero, he also massacred all the kids.

[maskerade]

Although some of their most influential members hailed from the "enlightened" aristocracy, the rebellion still was anti fascist due to its opposition to an extremely bigoted and militarized Space dictatorship. And Vader isn't a hero, he also massacred all the kids.

you mean younglings
vwF-2lo-uYM

[Anarchocommunaltoad]

you mean younglings
vwF-2lo-uYM

Yes i meant younglings grand master


Fuck star wars. But Vader was a people's hero a left wing populist.

No he wasn't. Even ignoring Vader's prequel *****ing about forcing everyone to agree, Lord Vader made no attempt to improve the basic underlining inequalities existent in the galactic system. He was instrumental in implementing a new military dictatorship under the grip of the elitist and xenophobic grand Moffs and their master, a Sith who meets the prime prerequisites of being labeled fascist (instead of eliminating monopolies and capitalist excess, he consolidated it under his name. Instead of ending a broken system, he kept it under puppet control until he could replace it with an ever worse version). Although much of the rebellion only wished for a return to the status quo, what they achieved set in motion something that could eventually change the galaxy for the better (ignore EU bullshit and take in mind that a galaxy is fucking big, which means that various levels of societal development and conditions would make a uniform and instantaneous shift to a classless and egalitarian society impossible.)

[RadioRaheem84]

I thought Vader and the Death Star represented Fascism, and the rebel alliance represented liberal bourgeoisie democracy?

[norwegianwood90]

I'm rather fond of Fritz Lang's Metropolis, even though the central message of the film is essentially class collaboration. It's simply a well-made film, in my opinion.

[Diello]

I seem to remember the script for "A New Hope" describing Vader as wearing "black fascist armor" or something along those lines.

Anyway, I quite like "Nicholas and Alexandra," "Metropolis" and "O Lucky Man!"

[Blake's Baby]

Vader = Kissinger, the Emperor = Nixon, the Ewoks = the Viet Minh, Luke Skywalker = Jane Fonda. Return of the Jedi = Lucas's Vietnam movie.

[Invader Zim]

Evil races under the sway of a "darK" lord attempt to overrun the last bastions of (light skinned) nobility.

I'm pretty sure that a massive burning eye hovering over a vast tower in a volcanic wasteland doesn't have a race. People have made the same arguments regarding the books, particularly substandard academics in worthless fields like literary criticism. The fact is that issues such as race, until it became a prominent issue later in his lifetime were simply beyond the limited and secluded horizons of the upper-middle-class gentlemans clubs that comprised British academe of that period. The only way that the charge of racism sticks is if you consider the complete failure of individuals like Tolkien to even acknowledge its relevance. In short, his 'racism' derives from the fact that individuals from other races did not even cross his radar. Instead his noteworthy prejudices revolved around class.

Indeed your point misses that most obvious problem with LOTR, which is, with the exception of the bumbling, intellectual sub-standard, utterly subservient yokel gardener, every other character from what we might describe as holding a working class background is a dirty monster, from some dark chasm, with poor hygiene, worse manners, a violent temperament and a cockney accent. Indeed, the evil forces in the books represent an attack on the life-style Tolkien associated with the English rural gentry from the forces of urban industrialization. It is no coincidence that both Souron and Saruman rule over ecologically destructive industrialized societies populated by an industrial working class population of orcs, both of which pose a grave threat to the traditional rural lifestyle to the inhabitants of the Shire and its profoundly middle-class hero. The class politics of the films, are pointedly and deliberately true to those of the books. And, of course, the class politics were a reflection of Tolkien's arch-reactionary image of his imagined view of English society in the 1940/50s. Only, because he was so repulsively reactionary even by the low standards of the society and upper-middle class culture of which he was a product, it actually resembles a vision of society that was actually more common of arch reactionaries four decades his senior. Basically the books revolve around the notion of the decline of 'Englishness' and rural English gentry values, and hark back to an imagined historical English utopia when the class system where very different. Basically, Tolkien was reiterating a modernized, though not that modernized, version of Blake's Jerusalem - only he was over a century late.

Good films though.

[GoddessCleoLover]

Good films, but they failed to live up to the book. BTW Invader Zim once again really nails it with his class analysis.

[Althusser]

Team America: World Police
http://dumbyouth.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/teamamerica.jpg

[Anarchocommunaltoad]

I'm pretty sure that a massive burning eye hovering over a vast tower in a volcanic wasteland doesn't have a race. People have made the same arguments regarding the books, particularly substandard academics in worthless fields like literary criticism. The fact is that issues such as race, until it became a prominent issue later in his lifetime were simply beyond the limited and secluded horizons of the upper-middle-class gentlemans clubs that comprised British academe of that period. The only way that the charge of racism sticks is if you consider the complete failure of individuals like Tolkien to even acknowledge its relevance. In short, his 'racism' derives from the fact that individuals from other races did not even cross his radar. Instead his noteworthy prejudices revolved around class.

Indeed your point misses that most obvious problem with LOTR, which is, with the exception of the bumbling, intellectual sub-standard, utterly subservient yokel gardener, every other character from what we might describe as holding a working class background is a dirty monster, from some dark chasm, with poor hygiene, worse manners, a violent temperament and a cockney accent. The class politics of the films, are pointedly and deliberately true to those of the books. And, of course, the class politics were a reflection of Tolkien's arch-reactionary image of his imagined view of British society in the 1940/50s. Only, because he was so repulsively reactionary even by the low standards of the society and upper-middle class culture of which he was a product, it actually resembles a vision of society that was actually more common of arch reactionaries four decades his senior.

Good films though.

Sauron is 7 feet tall and covered in black armor when in physical form. "Dark" apllies juvenily