Class Hatred According to Avanti

[Avanti]

there are two kinds of people in this world

those who suffer mentally

and physically

under Babylon

and those

who thrive

now i am not talking about the elite

the elite are Babylon

are the priesthood of the eyed pyramid

no

i am talking about "the good people"

those who do complete their education flawlessly

those who always are clean

with white teeth

not one hair on the head in disorder

often religious, or secular humanists

they believe that voting is a virtue

that we are living in the best society ever

they believe in family life and monogamy

they are wearing suits

they are the ceo's

the bureaucrats

the lawyers

the economists

the brokers

the upper middle income people

they despise us

they look down on all who fail at life

because in their conceited minds

they believe maladaption

is a virtue

while other despair under Babylon

these people are thriving

because they are soulless materialists

who believe in their own excellency

they secretly hate and fear those who failed at life

because they see themselves

how they could have been

if they'd taken one step wrong

if they'd ever had resented

they'd take it up their asses

everything

they are the glue which keeps the masquerade together

they are the happy empty people

they are those who love obama

they are those, who see themselves

as the progressive elite

they aren't real humans

because there is no passion

no love

no hate

no screaming agony

no terror in the face

of the pointlessness

of the system

they cannot see the beauty with a dawn

over an abandoned industrial area

they cannot understand

the charm of running around with bare feet

in the forest

they dread

the urban jungle

because they know

they are sheltered pets

inside their hearts

they aren't human

they must be wiped out

[hatzel]

the elite are Babylon

are the priesthood of the eyed pyramid

How many fucking times...?!

[Hiero]

the speak
proper punctuation
they have
correct grammer
they use
sentances
they must be wiped out

[Will Scarlet]

I am a soulless materialist.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

Build a better society, and the people the OP describes will happily live in it.

It's better than dehumanising them, which is perhaps the most worrying part of Avanti's post here.

[Avanti]

we all already are dehumanized

by the system

those who are "the successful"

are collaborators

of the Enemy

they will solidarize

with Babylon

against the NeoTribes

if you want to become a human

you must cut yourself from the system

living as a dumpster-diving urban nomad

a proper revolutionary ideology

must have a blood sacrifice

a punishment

delved on those

who have chosen Babylon willingly

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

we all already are dehumanized

by the system

That doesn't make it OK for "us" to do it.


those who are "the successful"

are collaborators

of the Enemy

they will solidarize

with Babylon

against the NeoTribes

Actually as gaps between rich and poor increase, the middle class you describe will become increasingly squeezed and decimated by economic realities. The vast majority of them will be proletarianised.


if you want to become a human

you must cut yourself from the system

living as a dumpster-diving urban nomad

What if one has a medical condition preventing that? Are such people thus denied the chance to become fully human in your eyes?


a proper revolutionary ideology

must have a blood sacrifice

a punishment

delved on those

who have chosen Babylon willingly

Revolutionary politics shouldn't be about revenge. It should be about permanently changing society into something better. Engaging in unreasoning mass murder looks suspiciously like the same old crap to me.

[Avanti]

you need to organise yourself

with your kinships

when you cut away from the system

most of the middle class will disappear

when Cyberpunk sets in

but there'll always be a managerial class

of hip urban middle class people

those are our enemies

there's a mystical element to the human mind

we need to affirm it

and it is subconsciously affirmed

within most ideologies

except liberalism

even marxism has it

the idea

of the final

liberation

from

alienation

[#FF0000]

avant is the best

[Avanti]

avant is the best

you are avanti too

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

there's a mystical element to the human mind

we need to affirm it

I'll take the awe of understanding over the awe of ignorance any day.

[Avanti]

I'll take the awe of understanding over the awe of ignorance any day.

it's not the awe of ignorance

it's the awe of being

those who love "Babylon"

are unable to love life

they'll resist being dragged out of the matrix

and their minds are damaged beyond repair

they'll have to be neutralised

otherwise they'll try to rebuild the matrix

either in a capitalist or a socialist form

but with bureaucracy

hierarchies

norms

police and prisons

not based on

love

music

sensations

life

[Mass Grave Aesthetics]

Avanti, why are hip urban middle class people our enemies? Is it because their minds are damaged beyond repair?

[Avanti]

Avanti, why are hip urban middle class people our enemies? Is it because their minds are damaged beyond repair?

yes

our minds are damaged too

but the system is fucking with us

too much for us to be able

to like it

so we turn apathetic instead

watching reality tv

eating junk food

and wasting money on pub visits

my mind is not so much damaged

because i finally ditched school

when i was 14

[The Garbage Disposal Unit]

I think the positing of a pure neo-tribal subjectivity is deeply, deeply problematic, especially suggesting it could arise out of alternative communities that subsist in a sort of parasitic relationship vis- commodity society. I've immersed myself in such communities - living "communally" without (and against) work; confronting capital on the grounds of everyday life. Unfortunately, it's bullshit - socialism in one punk house quickly degenerates to the worst sort of gangersterism. Raise a 40oz to two, three, many little Stalins.
Without an emancipatory projectuality, without a real movement of communization, such "neo-tribal" subjects are indistinguishable from the firm, the gang, whathaveyou - simply less effective modes of capital accumulation (that almost inevitably fail as a result).

[Avanti]

I think the positing of a pure neo-tribal subjectivity is deeply, deeply problematic, especially suggesting it could arise out of alternative communities that subsist in a sort of parasitic relationship vis- commodity society. I've immersed myself in such communities - living "communally" without (and against) work; confronting capital on the grounds of everyday life. Unfortunately, it's bullshit - socialism in one punk house quickly degenerates to the worst sort of gangersterism. Raise a 40oz to two, three, many little Stalins.
Without an emancipatory projectuality, without a real movement of communization, such "neo-tribal" subjects are indistinguishable from the firm, the gang, whathaveyou - simply less effective modes of capital accumulation (that almost inevitably fail as a result).

the issue is size

in 20 years

NeoTribes will consist

30-40%

of urban humanity

at the end of the century

they'll be the majority

the welfare state is going to be smothered

public education and healthcare abolished

all of the world

will become a mixture

of brazil and palestine

you have to form kinships

to survive

are they ideal?

no

but life will become an adventure

you will become

the main character

in the epic film

about your life

[The Garbage Disposal Unit]

no

but life will become an adventure

you will become

the main character

in the epic film

about your life

I mean, I don't think this is anywhere near as uncommon as you seem to think. I can't speak to the experience of most of the world, but I've been from the Atlantic to Pacific and back hitch-hiking and riding freight enough times that I've stopped counting, and met hundreds upon hundreds of young adventurers, each playing the starring role in their struggle against the shitty life of study-work-retire-die they've been offered. Their failure to constitute themselves as a party-of has meant, by and large, the adventure came to an inevitable end. Eventually you hit a wall - you run out of scams, you get hooked on drugs, or you decide you want to actually want to take on the ugly work of confronting capitalism instead of being a less-profitable niche market. Make no mistake - this is post-'68 reality. "Adventure" is not subversive, let alone revolutionary - it's the spectacle working its way insidiously in to the most sacred parts of our life. Drop out and accumulate social capital. It's cheaper than university.

[o well this is ok I guess]

What if one has a medical condition preventing that? Are such people thus denied the chance to become fully human in your eyes? they find people who do dive and grab food from them

[Avanti]

I mean, I don't think this is anywhere near as uncommon as you seem to think. I can't speak to the experience of most of the world, but I've been from the Atlantic to Pacific and back hitch-hiking and riding freight enough times that I've stopped counting, and met hundreds upon hundreds of young adventurers, each playing the starring role in their struggle against the shitty life of study-work-retire-die they've been offered. Their failure to constitute themselves as a party-of has meant, by and large, the adventure came to an inevitable end. Eventually you hit a wall - you run out of scams, you get hooked on drugs, or you decide you want to actually want to take on the ugly work of confronting capitalism instead of being a less-profitable niche market. Make no mistake - this is post-'68 reality. "Adventure" is not subversive, let alone revolutionary - it's the spectacle working its way insidiously in to the most sacred parts of our life. Drop out and accumulate social capital. It's cheaper than university.

in the future

you won't have a choice

your life would have to

be your adventure

otherwise

you'll die

[Comrade #138672]

it's not the awe of ignorance

it's the awe of being

those who love "Babylon"

are unable to love life

they'll resist being dragged out of the matrix

and their minds are damaged beyond repair

they'll have to be neutralised

otherwise they'll try to rebuild the matrix

either in a capitalist or a socialist form

but with bureaucracy

hierarchies

norms

police and prisons

not based on

love

music

sensations

lifeSo you are anti-Socialist?

[Avanti]

i am both

pro-communist and anti-socialist

communism means the total liberation

and the dissolution

of all class contradictions

i am against socialism

not all forms of socialism

but one particular form

the idea

that the state

should be used

to nationalise everything

and then govern

in a planned economy

it's just a reproduction

of bourgeois relations

of middle class attitudes

an empty spectacle

it is

within

the framework

of bourgeois conceptions

that is counterfeit socialism

real socialism

is about destroying the state

not strengthening it

[hatzel]

Any socialist would know that the 'socialism' you oppose isn't socialism, though, so I don't see why you'd claim it is to then oppose it...

[NGNM85]

Two questions;

1. Why do you insist on speaking in haiku?

2. Have you ever considered that there might be better ways of expressing yourself?

[statichaos]

we all already are dehumanized

by the system

those who are "the successful"

are collaborators

of the Enemy

they will solidarize

with Babylon

against the NeoTribes

if you want to become a human

you must cut yourself from the system

living as a dumpster-diving urban nomad

a proper revolutionary ideology

must have a blood sacrifice

a punishment

delved on those

who have chosen Babylon willingly


I actually was a dumpster-diving urban nomad (read: "homeless") for several years. It was horrible. I was constantly malnourished, sleep-deprived, suffering from any number of parasites both on and in my body, subjected to threats of violence on the part of both individuals and the police, and smelled absolutely horrible more days than not.

Any other suggestions?

[Avanti]

i was that too

it was horrible

the first time

i was raped

i have been beaten

laughed at

kicked

starved

had fever

out in the cold

but i emerged stronger

i think

the key is

to survive

to survive

by organising yourself

[Avanti]

Any socialist would know that the 'socialism' you oppose isn't socialism, though, so I don't see why you'd claim it is to then oppose it...

i think

it was great

when the soviet union fell

i hope north korea

falls soon

it will be a great spectacle

when the masses arise

to see the light

[statichaos]

i was that too

it was horrible

the first time

i was raped

i have been beaten

laughed at

kicked

starved

had fever

out in the cold

but i emerged stronger

i think

the key is

to survive

to survive

by organising yourself

Which I did. And I certainly emerged stronger than I was before, though I still bear psychological scars (including a rather nasty PTSD) to this day. All in all, I think that I'd rather have stayed inside if given a choice.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

i am against socialism

not all forms of socialism

but one particular form

the idea

that the state

should be used

to nationalise everything

and then govern

in a planned economy

it's just a reproduction

of bourgeois relations

of middle class attitudes

an empty spectacle

Regardless of whether one is anti or pro-State, there is still a need for organisation on the global and regional level that is ultra-democratic and widely dispersed both in terms of responsibility and in geographical terms.

So for example the World Union of Medical Workers would have centres in major cities across the globe, while the European Union of Vehicle Mechanics would have centres in major cities across Europe (and possibly be a member of the World Union), and the subdivision and subsequent dispersal of authority would continue down to the individual worker.

The reality could turn out differently, of course, but the above example is the kind of thing we should be aiming for. With contemporary telecommunications technology it would be relatively easy for the parts of the whole to query and relay information to each other.


I actually was a dumpster-diving urban nomad (read: "homeless") for several years. It was horrible. I was constantly malnourished, sleep-deprived, suffering from any number of parasites both on and in my body, subjected to threats of violence on the part of both individuals and the police, and smelled absolutely horrible more days than not.

Any other suggestions?

Were you squatting at all?

[Avanti]

Which I did. And I certainly emerged stronger than I was before, though I still bear psychological scars (including a rather nasty PTSD) to this day. All in all, I think that I'd rather have stayed inside if given a choice.

in 20 to 30 years

there'll be no choice

there will be 60-70% unemployment

Babylon will build gated communities

and patrol the neon skies

with fleets of drones

[brigadista]

is this a wind up?

[Avanti]

Two questions;

1. Why do you insist on speaking in haiku?

2. Have you ever considered that there might be better ways of expressing yourself?

my way of writing

affects the speed

in which your mind

is absorbing

what i say

words are overrated

language is a cage

a barrier

which filters our senses

and makes ut feel

other things than what we would

feel

without language

are we in control of language?

or is language in control of us?

[statichaos]

Were you squatting at all?

Difficult at best where I was. Security guards were rampant around abandoned houses. I mostly made do with bridges, freeway overpasses, and the like


in 20 to 30 years

there'll be no choice

there will be 60-70% unemployment

Babylon will build gated communities

and patrol the neon skies

with fleets of drones

That sounds like an excellent setup for science fiction, but please forgive me if I'm skeptical of your abilities of prognostication.

[Avanti]

all that was written in 19th century sci-fi

was realized

during the 20th century

they're building

the cyberpunk world

welcome to the future little friend

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

my way of writing

affects the speed

in which your mind

is absorbing

what i say

Well for me, it has a retardant effect on absorbing what you're saying. Even then, I worry about misinterpretation.


words are overrated

language is a cage

a barrier

which filters our senses

Au contraire, mein tovarisch! Words are a bounteous delectation, a lingual feast, bringing music to life and fertilising the blossoming of thoughts one would never have had if one was only limited to sensation.


and makes ut feel

other things than what we would

feel

without language

We can already feel things, and have done for a rather long time. Now with language we can begin to describe them to each other. Not perfectly, but the effect is at once both beautiful and useful.


are we in control of language?

or is language in control of us?

Language without our desires is powerless. Books just sit there.

[Avanti]

and what

if there are no words

that can describe your feelings?

look at the moon

the word "moon" does not

make any justice

to what the moon

actually is

first time i saw the moon

i screamed and pointed at it

but i'm no visual person

my main way

of interacting

with the world

is touch

[statichaos]

all that was written in 19th century sci-fi

was realized

during the 20th century

they're building

the cyberpunk world

welcome to the future little friend

It takes selective reading to think that all that was written in 19th century sci-fi was realized during the 20th century. Some of Verne's stuff, to be sure. But we don't see time machines, zeppelins everywhere, or cannons shooting us to the moon. Similarly, why wouldn't our future look more like Roddenberry's utopian visions, and less like Gibson's dystopian ones?

[Avanti]

It takes selective reading to think that all that was written in 19th century sci-fi was realized during the 20th century. Some of Verne's stuff, to be sure. But we don't see time machines, zeppelins everywhere, or cannons shooting us to the moon. Similarly, why wouldn't our future look more like Roddenberry's utopian visions, and less like Gibson's dystopian ones?

are multinational corporations

drug cartels

erosion of welfare states

globalization

organ trading

monsanto

ndaa

economic crises

etc

a sign of a roddenberrian future?

it is gibson

pure gibson

[statichaos]

are multinational corporations

drug cartels

erosion of welfare states

globalization

organ trading

monsanto

ndaa

economic crises

etc

a sign of a roddenberrian future?

it is gibson

pure gibson

Or the sign of a final crisis before a transition to one. Or neither. Again, predictions are a tricky matter at best.

[Avanti]

it doesn't matter

you'll be ready

when the prophecy

of avanti

will unfold

[statichaos]

it doesn't matter

you'll be ready

when the prophecy

of avanti

will unfold

I can deal with the U.U. types of prophets, those who speak truth to power.

Those who actually claim to be able to predict the future? Skepticism abounds. But we shall see.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

it doesn't matter

you'll be ready

when the prophecy

of avanti

will unfold

Water over a stone.

[Avanti]

Water over a stone.

i am the water

i am eroding

the cages

in your minds

[GoddessCleoLover]

Don't jump the shark, Avanti. Keep your posts focused, bro.

[Invader Zim]

i am the water

i am eroding

the cages

in your minds

by writing in

weird and really

pretentious and irritating

style to copy

Avanti's posting appearance

i'm the ivy scaling

the walls of

your intellectual

phallus or whatever.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

i am the water

i am eroding

the cages

in your minds

I was actually attempting to somewhat poetically express what reasoning with you felt like. Interesting that you thought you were the water in that attempt at allegorical language of mine.

Does the intention of the speaker count for nothing? Is it really all about you?

[Lenina Rosenweg]

I think Avanti means "I" in somewhat of a more global sense, not as in the "royal we" but as in Freud's "oceanic experience". Avanti is a state of being or rather a way of being in the world.

I don't know the philosophic term for this but I'm sure there is one. Sort of a Dionysian-Taoist absolutist monism, I guess..

[The Garbage Disposal Unit]

I think Avanti means "I" in somewhat of a more global sense, not as in the "royal we" but as in Freud's "oceanic experience". Avanti is a state of being or rather a way of being in the world.

I don't know the philosophic term for this but I'm sure there is one. Sort of a Dionysian-Taoist absolutist monism, I guess..

Species-Being, maybe?

I'm pretty sure that Avanti is just Humanist-Marxism + Drugs.

[soso17]

1. Why do you insist on speaking in haiku?



FYI. Haiku has a specific structure: seventeen syllables arranged 5-7-5, and usually the first two lines posit something that is answered/addressed in the last, sometimes with a bit of irony.

Avanti uses more of a stream-of-consciousness, beat-inspired form. Of course, we should know that, seeing that we are each Avanti.

[Sperm-Doll Setsuna]

Avanti, please stop posting. Everything you say is nonsense. Do drugs, dive into dumpsters, crawl on goods trains, what-have-you, but please don't post more stupid shit, and stop typing in a way as to make reading you more annoying to read than Hubert Shelby.

[Avanti]

Avanti, please stop posting. Everything you say is nonsense. Do drugs, dive into dumpsters, crawl on goods trains, what-have-you, but please don't post more stupid shit, and stop typing in a way as to make reading you more annoying to read than Hubert Shelby.

fascinating

that you take

all this effort

to scream

into

your computer screen

a computer screen

is just another mirror

me are you

we are all interconnected

we are all one

[Sperm-Doll Setsuna]

fascinating

that you take

all this effort

to scream

into

your computer screen

a computer screen

is just another mirror

me are you

we are all interconnected

we are all one

One, two sides to a dime

a vicious cycle rejuvenate

the splendour of generations

forever banished to, those foreign lands

wherein dwell the faceless ones

The Avanti spoke, and all was still

for lost in oblivion was the crowd

who into navels gazed

On a table lay, a volume of Jung,

in the book-case, Heidegger roamed

walls of torpid leather kissed

plastic bags of some unknown synthetic substance

Therein, Avanti said, you shall find the answer

And soon in drug-induced bliss

all was forgotten, and all

seemed for a while

to make perfect sense

illusory this was

but Avanti insist - what you will is what you see

[Avanti]

i applaud

your first steps

towards the light

[NGNM85]

Similarly, why wouldn't our future look more like Roddenberry's utopian visions, and less like Gibson's dystopian ones?

I'd like to think so; but I wouldn't bet on it. Unfortunately; I think it's far more likely that the future will resemble the dystopic urban sprawls of Neuromancer, or Blade Runner, then the idyllic socialist paradise (Minus the transparent allegories for US gunboat diplomacy, of course.) of Star Trek, or, worse yet; the wasteland of Mad Max.

[statichaos]

I'd like to think so; but I wouldn't bet on it. Unfortunately; I think it's far more likely that the future will resemble the dystopic urban sprawls of Neuromancer, or Blade Runner, then the idyllic socialist paradise (Minus the transparent allegories for US gunboat diplomacy, of course.) of Star Trek, or, worse yet; the wasteland of Mad Max.

I don't think that it will be either extreme. Instead, I suspect that we'll muddle through somehow, though we'll be addressing issues of scarcity of resources before too long. Hopefully we'll find a constructive way to go about that.

[NGNM85]

I don't think that it will be either extreme. Instead, I suspect that we'll muddle through somehow, though we'll be addressing issues of scarcity of resources before too long. Hopefully we'll find a constructive way to go about that.

It's a nice thought, but, as I've said; I'm not that optimistic. I don't mean to sound cavalier, in truth, I'm actually deeply concerned about it.