Just had this come up on facebook.

[Flying Purple People Eater]

Bloody Leftist anarchists, They have no idea what the differences between "Capitalism" And "Corporatism" Is and try to correlate the two, when the problem with can be solved with removing the source of corporate-government benefits with a stateless or limited state system. They have no-idea that reason why the "1%" is guaranteed to stay so rich is because of of government bail-outs and protectionism, In a free-market such acts would not be possible because corporations would have no source of guaranteed success from a system which has a monopoly of violence. And instead just wants everybody to get in line and follow what the "Collective" desires, this is just another form of totalitarianism.

What do?

[Anarchocommunaltoad]

What do?

Find and destroy him (on facebook)

[Ostrinski]

Enterprises grow to a certain point that they have the resources to utilize state power. We are not against capitalists controlling the capitalist state because that is the natural relationship of capitalism and the state that mediates its contradictions. Distinguishing between corporatism and capitalism is just a romantic idealization of capitalism because it robs it of what objectively constitutes a capitalist economy and substitutes an abstract vision of what this person thinks a capitalist society should look like. Even though the fundamental property, class, and value relationships would not be any different under his proposed system than now, in this person's mind it would be more pure, thus making it a completely different system.

This is in essence how the utopian thinks: Upholding a completely ideologically manufactured society that has no foundation in the functioning of the current system or in the different interests of the particular social classes that make up this system. A utopia for us is not a "perfect" society but a society that cannot be achieved because it can only be one that has not or can never be achieved due to its origins in the ideological factory of the idealist brain outside of the objectively existing social conditions that it has absolutely no meaningful relation with.

[Let's Get Free]

He sounds like one of those annoying libertarians. The problem with libertarians and those espouse the "free market" and make a distinction between corporatism and capitalism is that they base their ideology on ideals and principles rather than material and historical reality.

Why do you think so many wealthy people are NOT libertarians? Because wealth inevitably combines with political power and the alliance protects wealth. This is the real face of capitalism.

[Flying Purple People Eater]

Enterprises grow to a certain point that they have the resources to utilize state power. We are not against capitalists controlling the capitalist state because that is the natural relationship of capitalism and the state that mediates its contradictions. Distinguishing between corporatism and capitalism is just a romantic idealization of capitalism because it robs it of what objectively constitutes a capitalist economy and substitutes an abstract vision of what this person thinks a capitalist society should look like. Even though the fundamental property, class, and value relationships would not be any different under his proposed system than now, in this person's mind it would be more pure, thus making it a completely different system.

This is in essence how the utopian thinks: Upholding a completely ideologically manufactured society that has no foundation in the functioning of the current system or in the different interests of the particular social classes that make up this system. A utopia for us is not a "perfect" society but a society that cannot be achieved because it can only be one that has not or can never be achieved due to its origins in the ideological factory of the idealist brain outside of the objectively existing social conditions that it has absolutely no meaningful relation with.
That's a much better response than I could muster. What threw me was the 'corporatism' argument: I'm quite new to politics and the jargon infuriates me (someone should really make a 'glossary of terms' in the learning section on RL, now that I think about it; It'd help out a hell of a lot of newcomers and save unneeded confusion), so I naturally didn't want to respond to an argument I wasn't fully grasping the meaning of.

I assume it's just the usual 'big government' guff that's used a lot by these folks, is that correct?

[Blake's Baby]

Sort of. They claim we don't have 'capitalism' now, we have 'corporatism', because to them 'capitalism' is something like the economy of the American pioneers/frontier settlers. It's a kind of petty-bourgeois utopianism, really.

[Igor]

This really again proves there's really no point in considering the far libertarian right really as an actual enemy of the left: they're merely utopians and their political ideology isn't really too tied to reality. I consider a social democrat, who actually pretty much supports the current system, a lot worse than I do any right-libertarian like those quoted in the OP who clearly have issues with capitalism but don't really just know where they stem from.

[Blake's Baby]

Oh, no, it really is, the implications are horrendous. They want all the bad points of capitalism (unequal property laws, wage slavery etc) and none of the 'good' parts (that's a comparative term) - the bits that actually make it possible for the working class to survive.

[A Revolutionary Tool]

Libertarianism is a petty-bourgoeis theory. If only everybody lived in small towns where the owner of a commodity also produced it, maybe then it could kind of work. Libertarians just disregard all facts, don't care about the actual development of capitalism and it's inherent contradictions(they'll swear to you that the only reason there has ever been a crisis in capitalism is because of the Federal Reserve using the fractional reserve system and not using the gold standard), or about the development of monopolies, or about imperialism. No capitalism to them is Granny nitted a scarf and traded it for some eggs at the general store. Not that bad stuff. Working class people, poor people? They're just parasites mooching off of the hard work of the capitalist.

[hatzel]

Don't you just hate people who post their politics all over Facebook?

[Sir Comradical]

Getting angry at small capital for becoming big capital and influencing the state is cheap moralism. Say that.

[Avanti]

getting angry at capitalism

is cheap moralism

everything can be said to be moralism

instead of demanding rights

we should demand to live

that would destroy the system

because the system is killing us slowly

and preventing us from ever living

[cynicles]

He sounds like one of those annoying libertarians. The problem with libertarians and those espouse the "free market" and make a distinction between corporatism and capitalism is that they base their ideology on ideals and principles rather than material and historical reality.

Why do you think so many wealthy people are NOT libertarians? Because wealth inevitably combines with political power and the alliance protects wealth. This is the real face of capitalism.
I don't know I once had some rich kids for roommates and they all kept a copy of Atlas Shrugged by their beds. It was pretty hilarious/pathetic/caricaturish.

[Ele'ill]

getting angry at capitalism

is cheap moralism

everything can be said to be moralism

instead of demanding rights

we should demand to live

that would destroy the system

because the system is killing us slowly

and preventing us from ever living

the issue is that people are organizing to demand instead of organizing to attack

[Ravachol]

getting angry at capitalism

is cheap moralism

everything can be said to be moralism

instead of demanding rights

we should demand to live

that would destroy the system

because the system is killing us slowly

and preventing us from ever living

demanding to live is still demanding, it recognizes and reinforces the authority to which demands are made. Demanding is kneeling, praying. Communists don't demand, they simply do.

[Rafiq]

Enterprises grow to a certain point that they have the resources to utilize state power. We are not against capitalists controlling the capitalist state because that is the natural relationship of capitalism and the state that mediates its contradictions. Distinguishing between corporatism and capitalism is just a romantic idealization of capitalism because it robs it of what objectively constitutes a capitalist economy and substitutes an abstract vision of what this person thinks a capitalist society should look like. Even though the fundamental property, class, and value relationships would not be any different under his proposed system than now, in this person's mind it would be more pure, thus making it a completely different system.

This is in essence how the utopian thinks: Upholding a completely ideologically manufactured society that has no foundation in the functioning of the current system or in the different interests of the particular social classes that make up this system. A utopia for us is not a "perfect" society but a society that cannot be achieved because it can only be one that has not or can never be achieved due to its origins in the ideological factory of the idealist brain outside of the objectively existing social conditions that it has absolutely no meaningful relation with.

This is the best response you'll get, OP. Couldn't have said it better.

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