Communism According To Avanti

[Avanti]

imagine

there are no walls around

the world is a flowering garden of millions of colors

crystalline machines are doing all the production

there are artificial mountains

with terraces where fruits are grown

there are no borders

soundless maglev tubes are going underneath the ground

there is no alienation

there is no government

not even committees

there are no artificial social structures

just humans

just men and women

just you

whenever you meet anyone, it will be like falling in love for the first time

and the feelings will always be responded

there would be no need for clothes

love-making will be seen as the most beautiful act

not as something shameful

nobody will be a stranger

everyone will be welcome to come and play

you will feel everyone instantly

you will be a part of the wholeness

you will be everyone

and everyone will be you

you will feel no shame, no guilt, no fear of crying or laughing or roaming around

you will finally be free

individuality will cease to exist

and with that the need to confine oneself to one identity

love will float through the air, making everyone intoxicated

no humans will ever die from diseases, predators, violence or war

all humans will feel everlasting love and happiness

massive orgies will take place in the grass plains

everyone making love near the deep blue lakes and underneath the warm sun

nobody would ever age

all children will be everyone's children

and you will laugh

you cannot control it

it will burst through your chest

first you will giggle

then you'll laugh

and laugh

and laugh

and laugh and laugh and laugh

you will put your arms around your belly

and roll around in the glass

laughing from a joy so intense

you cannot imagine it

welcome to communism

everything is now possible

you are loved by everyone

and you loves everyone

everyone are free to express themselves naturally

humanity is one

our journey has begun

[Questionable]

That sounds awful.

[Avanti]

you feel it is awful now

because you fear others

you have grown up in fear

in loathing

total freedom means freedom from shame, guilt and sorrow

anything else is not worthy of being communism

[Sea]

That sounds awful.
http://breakingthelawtv.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/no-fun-allowed-530x300.jpg
Not even a little bit.

[TheGodlessUtopian]

the world is a flowering garden of millions of colors

crystalline machines are doing all the production

Doesn't this contradict the first line? So the world is ful of life but machines are running everything? I assume pollution was handled effectively than?


there are artificial mountains

with terraces where fruits are grownWhy mountains? If you are speaking of just growing food is building a large, tall structure where the food may be difficult to harvest really the best way to go about things?


soundless maglev tubes are going underneath the groundPurpose? We already have tunnels so what would these tubes give us?


not even committeesThan how is organizing done?


there are no artificial social structuresWhat is defined as "artificial"? And if there are no designation between who does what than how are vital services like healthcare provided? How will people know what to do when contributing towards society?


whenever you meet anyone, it will be like falling in love for the first time

and the feelings will always be respondedHow will it be like falling in love and why will these feelings be returned?


there would be no need for clothesDamn, looks like everyone is going to have to live in warm areas...


individuality will cease to existSo everyone will be of a Hive-Mind and not have their own thoughts?


no humans will ever die from diseases, predators, violence or warThere will always be disease. Under communism the deaths related to these diseases will be drastically reduced, hopefully, but sometimes events will slip through the cracks.


all humans will feel everlasting love and happinessGood to know, if I do not have individuality at least I can feel drugged up all the time.


massive orgies will take place in the grass plainsGood to know... wait, why exactly?


nobody would ever ageDiscovered the secret to immortality, have we?

[Kenco Smooth]

I'm confused. If there are no democratically elected workers councils then who will organize the orgies?

[Sea]

Don't even bother, TGU.


I'm confused. If there are no democratically elected workers councils then who will organize the orgies?The people involved will organize them! Haven't you ever heard of participatory democracy? It's magic and requires no further explanation!

[Avanti]

I'm confused. If there are no democratically elected workers councils then who will organize the orgies?

they will be spontaneous and natural

and nobody will be forced to partake

you can eat fruits if you want

bathe

play a flute

explore the new world and all it's wonders

or spread throughout the galaxy

[l'Enfermé]

Tell me more of these massive orgies, comrade.

[Kenco Smooth]

they will be spontaneous and natural

and nobody will be forced to partake

you can eat fruits if you want

bathe

play a flute

explore the new world and all it's wonders

or spread throughout the galaxy

But how would we know when they start and finish? If people are having orgies why would anyone work hard? Would a doctor and a street cleaner receive the same portion of the orgies?

[Avanti]

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-hK299eGLEyA/UC3ZHLeuwVI/AAAAAAAAB1I/DBc98CFyQk0/s1600/boschcover.jpg

[A Revolutionary Tool]

...and our surplus of hallucinogens runs out and we realize shit's totally insane.

[Avanti]

But how would we know when they start and finish? If people are having orgies why would anyone work hard? Would a doctor and a street cleaner receive the same portion of the orgies?

there won't be any doctors or street cleaners

there won't be any streets

all ground will be soft

so the people can walk barefoot if they want

structurally, my vision is called anarchotechnoprimitivism

combining the best aspects of anarchism, communism, transhumanism and anarcho-primitivism

then we can finally unite anarcho-primitivists and anarcho-transhumanists

[TheRedAnarchist23]

the world is a flowering garden of millions of colors


I imagine all those flowers would have to be planted by machines.


crystalline machines are doing all the production

And planting all the flowers!


there are artificial mountains

Why not use the ones we have already, and why even have mountains? I live in a country where it is mostly hills.


with terraces where fruits are grown

Geneticaly modified trees that grow perfect fruits?


there is no alienation

there is no government

Seems legit!


not even committees

I guess we now have a great super computer that coordinates all the machines.


there are no artificial social structures

just humans

just men and women

just you

This also seems legit!


there would be no need for clothes

You mean culture has finnaly evolved to the phase where I am allowed to walk around naked? Awesome!


nobody will be a stranger

But you said meeting someone new would be like falling in love for the first time!


everyone will be welcome to come and play

Yay!


you will feel everyone instantly

you will be a part of the wholeness

you will be everyone

and everyone will be you

Clones?


you will feel no shame, no guilt, no fear of crying or laughing or roaming around

But you said meeting someone new would feel like falling in love for the first time! How can you feel nothing, yet fall in love?


you will finally be free

Seems legit!


individuality will cease to exist

This does not seem legit. I am both social and individualist, what separates me from anarcho individualists is that they either do not think on organising anarchist society, or they create crazy social systems. I too want to protect my individuality.


and with that the need to confine oneself to one identity

This part is cool.


love will float through the air, making everyone intoxicated

But you said no emotions!


no humans will ever die from diseases, predators, violence or war

You mean we have reached singularity and became transhumans! yay!


massive orgies will take place in the grass plains

wot?


nobody would ever age

So it is transhumanism.


all children will be everyone's children

I wrote something about cultural shock, but I guess in a world where there is no individuality this is fine.


it will burst through your chest

Like an alien?

[Jesus Saves Gretzky Scores]

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-hK299eGLEyA/UC3ZHLeuwVI/AAAAAAAAB1I/DBc98CFyQk0/s1600/boschcover.jpg

So now whenever anyone asks what a communist society looks like, just show them this picture.

[l'Enfermé]

Yes these orgies sound very wonderful indeed. Sign me up.

[Avanti]

individuality is already an illusion

that does not mean you are not unique

but you are a unique expression of oneness

i don't believe in cloning, that would be boring

i believe in wild diversity

and yes, i do believe in singularity

but a singularity combined with a rediscovery of humanity

of your uniqueness

and of your oneness

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

there won't be any doctors or street cleaners

there won't be any streets

all ground will be soft

so the people can walk barefoot if they want

structurally, my vision is called anarchotechnoprimitivism

combining the best aspects of anarchism, communism, transhumanism and anarcho-primitivism

then we can finally unite anarcho-primitivists and anarcho-transhumanists

What happened to Neo-Anarchism, Gangster Tribal Cyberpunk Capitalism, and Prepostcybernetic subjectivatatious metarealitarianism?

[Jesus Saves Gretzky Scores]

Rename the website avantileft.com

[cynicles]

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-hK299eGLEyA/UC3ZHLeuwVI/AAAAAAAAB1I/DBc98CFyQk0/s1600/boschcover.jpg
All white with 2 token black women? I didn't realise communism involved wiping out all the non-whites.

[Avanti]

What happened to Neo-Anarchism, Gangster Tribal Cyberpunk Capitalism, and Prepostcybernetic subjectivatatious metarealitarianism?

Cyberpunk capitalism is just the last stage of capitalism.

it is not to be supported.

irony is to be encouraged however.

[A Revolutionary Tool]

What happened to Neo-Anarchism, Gangster Tribal Cyberpunk Capitalism, and Prepostcybernetic subjectivatatious metarealitarianism?

You don't understand, this is Avanti's utopia, what she wish could exist but never will. Cyberpunk Capitalism and all of that is the sad reality that is inevitable :rolleyes:

[Avanti]

All white with 2 token black women? I didn't realise communism involved wiping out all the non-whites.

ask hieronymus bosch.

if i painted it, people would have all the seven colors of the rainbow.

[Avanti]

You don't understand, this is Avanti's utopia, what she wish could exist but never will. Cyberpunk Capitalism and all of that is the sad reality that is inevitable :rolleyes:

at last someone has understood me!

but the thing about this never happening.

it can happen.

it cannot happen with the current humanity.

it needs to be de-toxed

by breaking free from the machine.

by breaking free from Babylon

[Jesus Saves Gretzky Scores]

All white with 2 token black women? I didn't realise communism involved wiping out all the non-whites.

There's a guy in a clam, who knows what the fuck happened

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

at last someone has understood me!

but the thing about this never happening.

it can happen.

it cannot happen with the current humanity.

it needs to be de-toxed

by breaking free from the machine.

by breaking free from Babylon

But the Cyberpunk Capitalism scenario you describe is far different to what you describe in your first post in this thread. Given that the NeoTribes are less powerful than Babylon, how does one lead to the other?

Leaving aside the question of whether Cyberpunk Capitalism will actually come to pass, of course.

[zoot_allures]

massive orgies will take place in the grass plains
Communism according to Avanti kicks ass.

[TheRedAnarchist23]

at last someone has understood me!

People

don't understand

you

because you

write like this

maybe

if you wrote

the normal way

you would

facilitate

comprehension

of your arguments.

[Avanti]

But the Cyberpunk Capitalism scenario you describe is far different to what you describe in your first post in this thread. Given that the NeoTribes are less powerful than Babylon, how does one lead to the other?

Leaving aside the question of whether Cyberpunk Capitalism will actually come to pass, of course.

Babylon will be overwhelmed by millions of NeoTribes

it will be an increasingly isolated network

as the urban wastelands fall under the control of the NeoTribes

eventually, it will be overstretched and collapse

then the NeoTribes can inherit Babylon's technology

and build Communism

[TheRedAnarchist23]

How come "Communism according to Avanti" reminds me of the bible?

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

Babylon will be overwhelmed by millions of NeoTribes

it will be an increasingly isolated network

as the urban wastelands fall under the control of the NeoTribes

eventually, it will be overstretched and collapse

then the NeoTribes can inherit Babylon's technology

and build Communism

Babylon will have nukes, and you've said they would have no qualms about slaughtering people. What the nukes won't hit, the drones will.

Then maybe some joker invents true Artificial Intelligence and who knows what the fuck happens after that...

[Prometeo liberado]

I hate flutes and people that play them. Either you are way to close to a Renaissance Fair or someone is trying to get you to follow them somewhere bad. Either way it's not gonna be good. Smug assholes for sure.

I didn't realize communism involved wiping out all the non-whites.
How do you think racism will be eradicated?

[Avanti]

that is possible

but the greatest atom bomb

are the minds of the lost children

i have faith in us prevailing

we are like the weed

mow us down

and we'll grow up stronger

[Lenina Rosenweg]

What happened to Neo-Anarchism, Gangster Tribal Cyberpunk Capitalism, and Prepostcybernetic subjectivatatious metarealitarianism?

These ideologies have been subsumed, fulfilled and then surpassed by neo-anarcho-techno-primitivist-transhumanism, or whatever Avanti calls it.

Kinda like how Marxist-Leninism has been subsumed and overtaken by Juche.

[maskerade]

Avanti is the best thing to happen to Revleft in a while. i sincerely believe that.

too bad he will be banned for disturbing the precarious harmony of our very intricate role playing game.

that being said, I didn't read what he wrote.

I guess I am just used to one sentence following another.

Without being separated by a line.

crypto-ritual shamanic zombification.

it's real.

[Anarchocommunaltoad]

These ideologies have been subsumed, fulfilled and then surpassed by neo-anarcho-techno-primitivist-transhumanism, or whatever Avanti calls it.

Kinda like how Marxist-Leninism has been subsumed and overtaken by Juche.

neo-anarcho-techno-primitivist-transhumanism is both revisionist and reactionary. Only Prepostcybernetic subjectivatatious metarealitarianism (http://www.revleft.com/vb/group.php?groupid=1049) can save us.




crypto-ritual shamanic zombification.

it's real.

And must be avoided at all costs.

[Rafiq]

What happened to Neo-Anarchism, Gangster Tribal Cyberpunk Capitalism, and Prepostcybernetic subjectivatatious metarealitarianism?

Who can forget shamananarchism

Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk 2

[Raúl Duke]

this communism sounds vaguely lots and lots fun...

It also reminds me very vaguely of being at Bear Creek Music Festival 2011.

Maybe I've already seen/experienced Avant's vision and it wasn't all that bad...
although the practical/technical details of what's supporting it is missing.

[hatzel]

Who can forget shamananarchism

Or shamanarchism! What a splendid neologism that is. I particularly like how it can be read either as anarchism that is shamanic, or anarchism that's a sham. Versatile!

[Sea]

ask hieronymus bosch.

if i painted it, people would have all the seven colors of the rainbow.That's another thing.

In communism, rainbows will be free from bourgeois oppression of the number of colors.

[Rafiq]

If Avanti isn't a troll, which I highly doubt, then I could actually sympathize with the idiots who always talk of how "Well Communisms is a good idea but....". I'm a fucking moron for trying to express a serious reaction to this, I know, but this is the definition of utopianism, but there is something else here. Disregarding Avanti, there is a general trend among communist-romanticists who say "well in communism we'll just fucking kick back and let things do themselves" or whatever. It's really embarrassing. I mean, for christs sake, do not take Communism as some sort of grand utopia that will solve not only the contradictions in capitalism, but your own personal problems. While it is very possible, likely even, that following a proletarian revolution things will be less-shit, but I assure you as humans, as animals, life will always be shit. Always. What you might not have are existing class relations to the mode of production and the social relations to the superstructure which sustain them. But even then it will take quite a while to do away with capitalist social relations. Ahhh, fuck all this talk, let's actually wait until a revolution is sub-semi-half possible, until a mass movement is built, until due to the efforts of such class consciousness is elevated before we talk about fucking artificial mountains. Actually, scratch that. Don't ever fucking talk about rainbows and artificial mountains. What the fuck.... I'm so confused now I don't even know what to say... What the hell avanti

[Anarchocommunaltoad]

If Avanti isn't a troll, which I highly doubt, then I could actually sympathize with the idiots who always talk of how "Well Communisms is a good idea but....". I'm a fucking moron for trying to express a serious reaction to this, I know, but this is the definition of utopianism, but there is something else here. Disregarding Avanti, there is a general trend among communist-romanticists who say "well in communism we'll just fucking kick back and let things do themselves" or whatever. It's really embarrassing. I mean, for christs sake, do not take Communism as some sort of grand utopia that will solve not only the contradictions in capitalism, but your own personal problems. While it is very possible, likely even, that following a proletarian revolution things will be less-shit, but I assure you as humans, as animals, life will always be shit. Always. What you might not have are existing class relations to the mode of production and the social relations to the superstructure which sustain them. But even then it will take quite a while to do away with capitalist social relations. Ahhh, fuck all this talk, let's actually wait until a revolution is sub-semi-half possible, until a mass movement is built, until due to the efforts of such class consciousness is elevated before we talk about fucking artificial mountains. Actually, scratch that. Don't ever fucking talk about rainbows and artificial mountains. What the fuck.... I'm so confused now I don't even know what to say... What the hell avanti

You cannot resist resist the Avanti

You are the Avanti

We all are

We All are

WE ALL ARE, WE ALL AREwe allareweallareweallareweallareweallareallareallare allarealllareee

(Ladeddadededeeelalaalladadeedadadeeda)

[Anarchocommunaltoad]

But seriously Avanti is either a very amusing troll or one of the insanely dangerous individuals i've ever heard. I've known people who touted ideas like this before, but Avanti is the only one who is just so disjointedly beautiful. When i actually debate her a feel like the Scottish cop in the Wicker Man.

[Avanti]

If Avanti isn't a troll, which I highly doubt, then I could actually sympathize with the idiots who always talk of how "Well Communisms is a good idea but....". I'm a fucking moron for trying to express a serious reaction to this, I know, but this is the definition of utopianism, but there is something else here. Disregarding Avanti, there is a general trend among communist-romanticists who say "well in communism we'll just fucking kick back and let things do themselves" or whatever. It's really embarrassing. I mean, for christs sake, do not take Communism as some sort of grand utopia that will solve not only the contradictions in capitalism, but your own personal problems. While it is very possible, likely even, that following a proletarian revolution things will be less-shit, but I assure you as humans, as animals, life will always be shit. Always. What you might not have are existing class relations to the mode of production and the social relations to the superstructure which sustain them. But even then it will take quite a while to do away with capitalist social relations. Ahhh, fuck all this talk, let's actually wait until a revolution is sub-semi-half possible, until a mass movement is built, until due to the efforts of such class consciousness is elevated before we talk about fucking artificial mountains. Actually, scratch that. Don't ever fucking talk about rainbows and artificial mountains. What the fuck.... I'm so confused now I don't even know what to say... What the hell avanti

if life still is shit

it isn't communism

communism is not about equal distribution of property

property is just a role-playing game

it is not real

the only thing that is real

is the sense of alienation

or the sense of belonging

humanity strives towards oneness

but the system strives to make us fear one another

to make us feel low

to make us feel worthless

somewhere deep inside

you are screaming

you long for love and acceptance

you long for feeling as one with your fellows

as one with all life in the universe

communism is the path towards total liberation

life under communism will be better than heaven

[Sea]

and

amen

to that

brother

[Omsk]

Wheeeree is the gigantic meat-grinder of revolutionary terror? Too much empty space and not enough walls, towers, barracks, wire, machine guns.

[Avanti]

Wheeeree is the gigantic meat-grinder of revolutionary terror? Too much empty space and not enough walls, towers, barracks, wire, machine guns.

good point

we need to discuss

a blood sacrifice

of the collaborators

of Babylon

but meat-grinders

and revolutionary terror

are so 1930's

and

if we would have a revolutionary purge today

you'll have to kill everyone and yourself

because none of us are mentally healthy

we're all trapped by Babylon

we're all reactionaries

only those born free from Babylon's indoctrination

can a revolution make

but you are right

we need a myth of revolutionary revenge

and violence

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

life under communism will be better than heaven

That's not too difficult. Heaven is shit, people there spend all of eternity blowing smoke up God's ass.

[Jimmie Higgins]

This discussion have veered off into philosphy... so the thread will follow accordingly. Moved to Philisophy

[hatzel]

This discussion have veered off into philosphy... so the thread will follow accordingly. Moved to Philisophy

...yeah you say that, but it's pretty clear you just didn't want it clogging up your subforum, so you're palming it off on someone else :rolleyes: (Kidding)

Now we're talking philosophy I can accuse Avanti's project of being thoroughly essentialist, built in the intersection of modernist utopianism and Enlightenment humanism. Anybody want to deny this assessment?

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

...yeah you say that, but it's pretty clear you just didn't want it clogging up your subforum, so you're palming it off on someone else :rolleyes: (Kidding)

Now we're talking philosophy I can accuse Avanti's project of being thoroughly essentialist, built in the intersection of modernist utopianism and Enlightenment humanism. Anybody want to deny this assessment?

Yeah, I do. They appear to completely abandon reason as a tool for changing the world. The talk of mythology suggests an abandonment of the Enlightenment and all that came after it (including Marxism), rather than embracing it.

[MEGAMANTROTSKY]

...yeah you say that, but it's pretty clear you just didn't want it clogging up your subforum, so you're palming it off on someone else :rolleyes: (Kidding)

Now we're talking philosophy I can accuse Avanti's project of being thoroughly essentialist, built in the intersection of modernist utopianism and Enlightenment humanism. Anybody want to deny this assessment?
I deny it. I believe that she is a postmodernist, as she seems to deny the notion of an objective reality several times over. Her arguments are rife with contradictions, and never provides any proof for her assertions or ideas. This is not to mention that she seems fairly contemptuous of "humanism", given how she endorses fascist tactics by insisting on the use of symbols and the "dumbing down" of propaganda in the interests of some vague "community". This is hardly an attractive method for bringing workers to a mass movement. Such views, especially the "dumbing down" part, rule out the possibility of essentialist leanings.

Or she's a troll.

Or you could have been facetious, in which case I apologize for taking this so seriously. Avanti seems to be the living joke on the forum right now. Perhaps I should just lighten up...*sigh*

[Avanti]

the avanti is the movement

and yes, i am the original essentialist

i believe in the essence of existence

the essence is the only real thing

all the words we describe existence with are only illusions which never can reach the true state of existence

you can never define the true ideology of existence

you can just be it

be the sensations you feel through your five senses

of which seeing and hearing are the least important ones

smell, taste and touch are the most important ones

especially touch

all theories about what the working class is are just sand castles

the working class can rise up and make a revolution

but then their inner indoctrination

their education

their inner Babylon

manifests itself in the external world

through the perpetuation

of the raising of hierarchical systems

you cannot make a revolution

before first overthrowing yourself

[GoddessCleoLover]

I would argue that any problem of "inner indoctrination" pertains more the the petit-bourgeois intellectual cadres of the "vanguard party" to a greater extent than it pertains to workers.

[Avanti]

the vanguard party will take power

if the workers don't give power to another liberal party

the workers are not interested in political power

they want to live

that's why

we must abandon or destroy the state

not take over it

[GoddessCleoLover]

Workers may not be interested in political power at this moment, but shit happens and things change. I have faith in the revolutionary potential of the proletariat. China may be where the next wave of revolutionary change begins, and it would be sweet to see the Chinese proletariat rise up against their so-called "vanguard party".

[hatzel]

I deny it. I believe that she is a postmodernist

A failed attempt at so-called 'postmodernism,' perhaps, but failed nonetheless. All this talk of liberating the 'true' spirit of humanity belongs to a modernist metaphysics. It is, in fact, the very essence of humanism - don't think that 'fascist' tactics rule this out, as Nazism too is a humanism - and as such would (rightly) be wholly rejected by 'postmodernists' for its fascistic leanings.

There are certain 'postmodern' nuances, perhaps an attempt to break with modernism (though this often owes more to a pre-modern position than it does to a 'postmodern' one), but it's ultimately unsuccessful. If anything, it remains a (pre-)modernist solution to a vaguely 'postmodern' problem. This is likely because the understanding of the problem itself is only partially 'postmodernist,' retaining various modernist elements. As a comparison, read Zerzan's critique of 'postmodernism,' itself utilising the analysis of 'postmodern' thinkers (namely Baudrillard, was there also Foucault? I forget), but placing these ideas in a (pre-)modernist framework. We see the same in Avanti here.

(This latest talk of the significance of touch and all that was, incidentally, ripped to shreds in Derrida's criticism of Rousseau in 'Of Grammatology'; a metaphysics of presence remains strong here.'

[Avanti]

A failed attempt at so-called 'postmodernism,' perhaps, but failed nonetheless. All this talk of liberating the 'true' spirit of humanity belongs to a modernist metaphysics. It is, in fact, the very essence of humanism - don't think that 'fascist' tactics rule this out, as Nazism too is a humanism - and as such would (rightly) be wholly rejected by 'postmodernists' for its fascistic leanings.

There are certain 'postmodern' nuances, perhaps an attempt to break with modernism (though this often owes more to a pre-modern position than it does to a 'postmodern' one), but it's ultimately unsuccessful. If anything, it remains a (pre-)modernist solution to a vaguely 'postmodern' problem. This is likely because the understanding of the problem itself is only partially 'postmodernist,' retaining various modernist elements. As a comparison, read Zerzan's critique of 'postmodernism,' itself utilising the analysis of 'postmodern' thinkers (namely Baudrillard, was there also Foucault? I forget), but placing these ideas in a (pre-)modernist framework. We see the same in Avanti here.

(This latest talk of the significance of touch and all that was, incidentally, ripped to shreds in Derrida's criticism of Rousseau in 'Of Grammatology'; a metaphysics of presence remains strong here.'

we are not living under postmodernism

we are living under the beginnings of Cyberpunk

further atomization of human society

the capitalist destruction of the state

a world where the slum and the glitz are the main division points

i can promise

that your life will be an adventure

if only you let go of Babylon

and decided to be free

and live as a hunter-gatherer

in the urban landscape

we are not discussing baudrillard or zerzan

we are discussing you

all theories are dead words

meaningless exercises in pointless knowledge

the only truth lies in action

there is no ism apart from lifestylism

that's the only way to express your truths

[Hit The North]

that is possible

but the greatest atom bomb

are the minds of the lost children



Then we need to find them and quick!


Avanti is the best thing to happen to Revleft in a while. i sincerely believe that.



The Avanti reminds me of Jim Jones. Within a fortnight, half the forum will find themselves administering poison to their own children.

[Rafiq]

communism is not about equal distribution of property



No, it is about the destruction of capitalist social relations, the revolutionary struggle for the conquest of the state, and the proletarian dictatorship of which the class enemy will be mercilessly crushed. What happens after we simply do not know.

[TheRedAnarchist23]

Rafiq, I think you are taking this too seriously. This is a utopian fantasy, nothing more.

[Avanti]

Rafiq, I think you are taking this too seriously. This is a utopian fantasy, nothing more.

it is not a fantasy

it is surreality

the ultimate dream of humanity

of the paradise

we will raise the paradise on Earth

by razing all that keeps it from flowering

the paradise will be built in our hearts

then it will emerge like ripples in the water from each and everyone of us

but we cannot do that

our children's children will

because we are polluted

indoctrinated

tainted

crippled by the brainwashing of Babylon

we can only create oppression and death

if we would try create

a new civilization

therefore

we must retreat into the urban jungle

rediscover our ability to dream

our ability to be humans

our purpose

...

otherwise we are fucked

[Domela Nieuwenhuis]

Oh fuck! Now i get it! Avanti isn't Marxist...HE'S A FUCKIN' HIPPY!!!!! :thumbup1:

[Lenina Rosenweg]

Marx kinda said this in Critique of the Gotha Program.

Funny thing is, I agree with much of what Avanti says.

[MEGAMANTROTSKY]

Hatzel,

I haven’t the time to read the authors you suggest, unfortunately. Nor do I think I am as acquainted with philosophy as you seem to be. But I do think there are problems with your conception.

“Nazism is a humanism”? I find this idea striking. If I remember correctly, it was originally used to defend Martin Heidegger from the charge of Nazism after his political activities for the Nazi regime were brought to light. One of Derrida’s students, Phillipe Lacoue-Labarthe, virtually said the same thing: The argument was that Nazism is a merely yet another expression of the Enlightenment tradition of humanism itself—in other words, the seeds or philosophical foundations of the former were ultimately planted in the latter.

But Lacoue-Labarthe’s cynical argument only appears to be somewhat novel. In my opinion, it is based upon a “reduction” of the Enlightenment, in that it draws no distinctions between the different social and philosophical currents that it contained. The legacy of the Enlightenment is very contradictory, in that it contained the seeds for liberalism, Marxism, and nihilism (postmodernism and Nazism would arise out of the third). And none of these seeds bloomed in a straightforward fashion at all. So I would claim that your assertion is only possible if we conceive of the Enlightenment project as a homogeneous political and philosophical undertaking. And I don’t think that assumption is correct, as it doesn’t paint a very cohesive historical picture. Bearing this in mind, speaking of a generalized “The Enlightenment” or “humanism” (or lumping Nazism in with both) is inherently wrongheaded, in my opinion.

About essentialism. It’s true that Avanti continually spouts a sort of “abstract” version of essentialism (or humanism, whatever) that conforms to what you describe. But I do not think that that is what ultimately characterizes her “thought”. We can’t simply look at what she says about people in the abstract, but her approach and attitude to human affairs in general. As such she does not attempt to define a “human spirit” as such, but actively tries to dissuade us from thinking about it at all. The domination of intuition and the scorn of objective knowledge is what stands out most prominently for me (and not just in her pathetic replies to me personally)—that is, the crowning feature of postmodernism, nihilism. Therefore my position is the inverse of your own: Her philosophical method is postmodernism with “nuances” of “modernist” humanism. Either way I think that this is a far cry away from essentialism, the philosophical notion that “sees reality as consisting of irreducible natures, each of which is qualitatively distinct” (1).

(1): Cited in “Alienation to Revolution: A Defense of Marx’s Theory of Alienation" by Alex Steiner, p.14 Site: http://www.permanent-revolution.org/essays/alienation_revolution.pdf

@Avanti: The historical Babylon has actually been damaged beyond repair by the US imperialist forces who landed in 2003. I would appreciate it if you would obsess over a more mythical city, like Atlantis, so I would get less offended or irritated every time end up I reading your dreck.

[GoddessCleoLover]

I always thought that Nazism was counter-Enlightenment, hearkening back to the Middle Ages, hence Hitler's obsession with operatic portrayals of heroic Teutonic knights.

[MEGAMANTROTSKY]

I always thought that Nazism was counter-Enlightenment, hearkening back to the Middle Ages, hence Hitler's obsession with operatic portrayals of heroic Teutonic knights.
I didn't assign the title of "counter-enlightenment" to Nazism or nihilism harkening back to Heidegger or Nietzsche in my post (because I forgot), but I agree with your categorization. Jonathan Israel in "Enlightenment Contested" gives a very striking account of how these two "enlightenments" (Radical, Moderate, and the "counter" elements that arose out of the latter) had opposed each other throughout history. Even then, it's only the beginning of the story. But I have a lot to learn about dialectics before I can come to a full understanding of it.

[Yuppie Grinder]

there are no artificial social structures

just humans

just men and women

just you



Gender is an artificial social construct.

[Domela Nieuwenhuis]

Gender is an artificial social construct.

That thing between my legs is an artificial social construct??
Always wondered...

[Rafiq]

I always thought that Nazism was counter-Enlightenment, hearkening back to the Middle Ages, hence Hitler's obsession with operatic portrayals of heroic Teutonic knights.

This is just on par with Germany's invasion or growing hostility with the Soviet Union, as the knights invaded Russia in the middle ages.

Fascism is a mutation, not a barrack against, enlightenment. It was mutation of bourgeois liberalism.

[Avanti]

before the ultimate liberation

the apocalypse must come

all revolutionary ideologies

need a blood sacrifice

http://www.revleft.com/vb/class-hatred-according-t176532/index.html

[The Garbage Disposal Unit]

That thing between my legs is an artificial social construct??
Always wondered...

Sex =/= Gender

The thing between your legs doesn't produce a particular subjectivity any more than, for example, the colour of your skin. Gender is a social relation that varies across times and cultures - it's "real" just as, for example, class is real, but it's not static let alone biological.

[RedMaterialist]

[QUOTE=Avanti;2537216...

otherwise we are fucked[/QUOTE]


Socialism or barbarism.

[RedMaterialist]

Gender is an artificial social construct.


avanti describes his/her gender as "other." Has she/he created an "other" gender construct?

[Astarte]

you will put your arms around your belly

and roll around in the glass

laughing from a joy so intense



Dude, communism or no communism - I don't wanna roll around in glass!

[GoddessCleoLover]

Avanti must have meant to type grass.

[Mass Grave Aesthetics]

Socialism or barbarism.
According to Avanti´s theoretical synthesis it´s socialism and barbarism.

[Astarte]

Avanti must have meant to type grass.

Haha, I know, it is just the imagery of someone rolling around in glass and laughing in intense joy with their hands on their belly is giving me intense "LOL"-joy right now... Maybe I am being a little cynical but these visions of 5000 CE communism or whatever always kind of make me "lol" anyway - we all have them, and if/when humanity does arrive at communism they will probably seem as silly as the talking houses of the future they use to show at "World's Fairs" in the 1950s...
uue6FANbYSQ

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

Haha, I know, it is just the imagery of someone rolling around in glass and laughing in intense joy with their hands on their belly is giving me intense "LOL"-joy right now... Maybe I am being a little cynical but these visions of 5000 CE communism or whatever always kind of make me "lol" anyway - we all have them, and if/when humanity does arrive at communism they will probably seem as silly as the talking houses of the future they use to show at "World's Fairs" in the 1950s...
uue6FANbYSQ

What visions? I don't think Avanti ever set a specific date.

[Yuppie Grinder]

That thing between my legs is an artificial social construct??
Always wondered...

Biological sex and gender are not the same thing. One is permanent, the other is adaptive, flexible, and artificial.

[Astarte]

What visions? I don't think Avanti ever set a specific date.

Hmm? 5000 CE just means some time in the far unforeseeable future - how else could his monologue of an OP be described but as his "future vision" of communism...?

[Dazdra Flynn]

Here's an idea: how about a society in which capital and production are owned collectively? I assume people will still get sad occasionally, but I imagine folks would generally be pretty happy.

[Doflamingo]

I'm not sure if Avanti writes incoherent sentences or if I'm just not high enough.

[Domela Nieuwenhuis]

Biological sex and gender are not the same thing. One is permanent, the other is adaptive, flexible, and artificial.

I have to disagree with you. Not because you can not choose your gender-identity, or even change it.
They just are semantically the same. One means the same as the other.

I was born a man. My sex was (and is for that) male, my gender was male.
If i become female, than my sex AND my gender become female.

[Yuppie Grinder]

I have to disagree with you. Not because you can not choose your gender-identity, or even change it.
They just are semantically the same. One means the same as the other.

I was born a man. My sex was (and is for that) male, my gender was male.
If i become female, than my sex AND my gender become female.

You're objectively speaking wrong and don't know what you're talking about.

[Goblin]

Do we have to be naked under communism? Im not really all that comfortable with my body:(

[GoddessCleoLover]

Under Communism or under Communism, Avanti-style? Nudity is not required under the former, under the latter only Avanti can provide the definitive answer.;)

[Astarte]

Its not an easy issue; "gender" per-say does not have to be specifically "male" or "female" there is much "gray" between the two extremes. In regards to "sex" it is possible for a person to be born male, have sexual reassignment surgery and then be female, or, of course, the opposite. There are also people who are neither sex but are "hermaphroditic". Essentially, sex does not necessitate gender, and gender does not dictate sex. What is biologically fixed and cannot be changed are the sex chromosomes an individual is born with, but this is something in itself different from "sex" and "gender".

[Rafiq]

Avanti is a great troll. So much so, to the point where he pisses me off by thanking every post. "Hey man it's your opinion I respect that here is a token of my tolerance".

[hetz]

u just mad

[Yuppie Grinder]

u mad cuz u aren't allowed inside the technoshamanistic cool kids club

[Tenka]

Its not an easy issue; "gender" per-say does not have to be specifically "male" or "female" there is much "gray" between the two extremes. In regards to "sex" it is possible for a person to be born male, have sexual reassignment surgery and then be female, or, of course, the opposite. There are also people who are neither sex but are "hermaphroditic". Essentially, sex does not necessitate gender, and gender does not dictate sex. What is biologically fixed and cannot be changed are the sex chromosomes an individual is born with, but this is something in itself different from "sex" and "gender".

What would actually make things considerably easier is if people stopped being expected to adopt distinct identities based on the shapes of their genitals. [/off-topic]

[Domela Nieuwenhuis]

You're objectively speaking wrong and don't know what you're talking about.

Neither are you...



Cambridge dictionary:
Gender

gender
noun ( SEX ) /ˈdʒen.dər //-dɚ/

Definition
• [U] formal the physical and/or social condition of being male or female
Sex

sex
noun ( MALE OR FEMALE ) /seks/

Definition
• [U] the state of being either male or female
What sex is your cat?
Some tests enable you to find out the sex of your baby before it's born.
It's illegal to discriminate against people on the basis of (their) sex.
She accused her employer of sex discrimination (= of treating her unfairly because she was a woman).
• [C] all males considered as a group, or all females considered as a group
She seems to regard all members of the male sex as inferior.
Members of the opposite sex are not allowed in students' rooms overnight.


Oxford Dictionaries:
Gender

gender Pronunciation: /ˈdʒɛndə/
Translate gender into French | into German | into Italian | into Spanish
Definition of gender
noun
1 [mass noun] the state of being male or female (typically used with reference to social and cultural differences rather than biological ones):
traditional concepts of gender
[count noun] the members of one or other sex:
differences between the genders are encouraged from an early age
2 Grammar (in languages such as Latin, French, and German) each of the classes (typically masculine, feminine, common, neuter) of nouns and pronouns distinguished by the different inflections which they have and which they require in words syntactically associated with them. Grammatical gender is only very loosely associated with natural distinctions of sex.
[mass noun] the property (in nouns and related words) of belonging to a grammatical gender:
determiners and adjectives usually agree with the noun in gender and number

Sex

sex Pronunciation: /sɛks/
Translate sex into French | into German | into Italian | into Spanish
Definition of sex
noun
1 [mass noun] (chiefly with reference to people) sexual activity, including specifically sexual intercourse:
he enjoyed talking about sex
she didn’t want to have sex with him
[in singular] euphemistic a person’s genitals.
2either of the two main categories (male and female) into which humans and most other living things are divided on the basis of their reproductive functions:
adults of both sexes
[mass noun] the fact of belonging to either the male or female sex:
direct discrimination involves treating someone less favourably on the grounds of their sex
the group of all members of either the male or female sex:
she was well known for her efforts to improve the social condition of her sex

[Fourth Internationalist]

First post makes me think of Brave New World... but it's still good! :D

[CryingWolf]

I'm all for giant orgies in the fields, but eventually my dick starts to hurt.

[Domela Nieuwenhuis]

I'm all for giant orgies in the fields, but eventually my dick starts to hurt.

Yeah, and you'll be all soar and get kinda bummed out 'bout the situation...until next morning!
I'ld probably fuck mine off...

[The Garbage Disposal Unit]

Here's an idea: how about a society in which capital and production are owned collectively?

I think that society is called "capitalism", and I'm pretty sure it exists (with varying degrees of who is included/excluded within collective ownership). THe point is not to share capital - it is to abolish it as-such. END OF THE COMMODITY FORM OR CHEWING ON CORPSES. FULL COMMUNISM OR BARBARISM.

[Avanti]

I think that society is called "capitalism", and I'm pretty sure it exists (with varying degrees of who is included/excluded within collective ownership). THe point is not to share capital - it is to abolish it as-such. END OF THE COMMODITY FORM OR CHEWING ON CORPSES. FULL COMMUNISM OR BARBARISM.

communism

and

barbarism

[The Garbage Disposal Unit]

communism

and

barbarism

While I appreciate the humour of playing with old Marxist slogans, I think, if you were to think through barbarism, conceptually, you'd abandon it as part of your project.
Barbarism, insofar as it can be comprehensible exists fundamentally in relationship to class society - the incomprehensible "BAR BAR BAR BAR BAR!" of the other. From the position of communism, the "barbarian", the perpetual enemy who doesn't speak the language of civilization (that is to say, of class) is abolished.

[Avanti]

While I appreciate the humour of playing with old Marxist slogans, I think, if you were to think through barbarism, conceptually, you'd abandon it as part of your project.
Barbarism, insofar as it can be comprehensible exists fundamentally in relationship to class society - the incomprehensible "BAR BAR BAR BAR BAR!" of the other. From the position of communism, the "barbarian", the perpetual enemy who doesn't speak the language of civilization (that is to say, of class) is abolished.

i am the other

i am the outcast

staring into the window

staring

into your soul

the language of class

will be abolished

during communism

i would say

civilization

as we know it

as a concept

will cease

under communism

[Avanti]

Why is this thread still alive? I guess I'm not helping the matter but Avanti is just a troll speaking in some cryptic poetic fashion that requires more tedious vertical reading than is worth doing

the troll

is in the eye

of the beholder

maybe

you deep inside

feel like a troll

living under a bridge

afraid of the sunlight

so so

get up from the shadow

and be prepared

to be embraced

by the all-loving warmth

of avanti

[Green Girl]

imagine

there are no walls around

the world is a flowering garden of millions of colors

crystalline machines are doing all the production

there are artificial mountains

with terraces where fruits are grown

there are no borders

soundless maglev tubes are going underneath the ground

there is no alienation

there is no government

not even committees

there are no artificial social structures

just humans

just men and women

just you

whenever you meet anyone, it will be like falling in love for the first time

and the feelings will always be responded

there would be no need for clothes

love-making will be seen as the most beautiful act

not as something shameful

nobody will be a stranger

everyone will be welcome to come and play

you will feel everyone instantly

you will be a part of the wholeness

you will be everyone

and everyone will be you

you will feel no shame, no guilt, no fear of crying or laughing or roaming around

you will finally be free

individuality will cease to exist

and with that the need to confine oneself to one identity

love will float through the air, making everyone intoxicated

no humans will ever die from diseases, predators, violence or war

all humans will feel everlasting love and happiness

massive orgies will take place in the grass plains

everyone making love near the deep blue lakes and underneath the warm sun

nobody would ever age

all children will be everyone's children

and you will laugh

you cannot control it

it will burst through your chest

first you will giggle

then you'll laugh

and laugh

and laugh

and laugh and laugh and laugh

you will put your arms around your belly

and roll around in the glass

laughing from a joy so intense

you cannot imagine it

welcome to communism

everything is now possible

you are loved by everyone

and you loves everyone

everyone are free to express themselves naturally

humanity is one

our journey has begun

that is really beautiful

one can be as promiscuous as one desires

no sexually transmitted disease

sounds very much like flower power perfected

I would love to be there

I am an indoor nudist

as I have always hated the feeling clothes

society makes me cover my body outside

you say it is not a fantasy

but is surreality

the ultimate dream of humanity

of paradise on Earth

to love all of mankind without restrictions

to love all of nature without restrictions

I agree.

[The Garbage Disposal Unit]

Nudism! (http://www.cardus.ca/columns/2864/)

[Myrdin]

I believe the title needs to be changed to: "Revisionism According to Avanti".

But I'm loving the poetry!

[GoddessCleoLover]

Groovy and far out. Are you going to San Francisco? Be sure to wear flowers in your hair.;)

[prolcon]

This is so not metal.

[Avanti]

I believe the title needs to be changed to: "Revisionism According to Avanti".

But I'm loving the poetry!

revisionism

is necessary

you have

to merge

your beliefs

dismerge

destroy them

build them up

without revisionism

you breed stagnation

the only real

treason

is loyalty

[Anarchocommunaltoad]

revisionism is necessary you haveto merge your beliefs dismerge destroy them build them up without revisionism you breed stagnation the only real treason is loyalty

You're welcome

[Domela Nieuwenhuis]

Never been a big fan of the three-word-sentence can't-figure-out-what-this-means poetry-style.

I'll take Poe's The Raven over this quasi-intellectual, multi-level poetry-crap.

...

No offence, off course.

[Avanti]

i'm

a quasi

anti-intellectual

not

a

quasi-intellectual

[Domela Nieuwenhuis]

i'm

a quasi

anti-intellectual

not

a

quasi-intellectual

...what!?...:confused:

[Leftsolidarity]

You know you're completely fucking nuts right?

[Avanti]

You know you're completely fucking nuts right?

being insane

is cool

just look

at the

joker

[Leftsolidarity]

Fuck the joker

[Leftsolidarity]

Btw that wasn't even fucking poetic. You just space things out to be a jackass and no other reason. Learn to type like a person actually trying to communicate with another person instead of your arrogant bullshit that makes it impossible to read a fucking thread.

[Avanti]

have i ever

claimed

i am

a poet?

i am

not

a poet

i am

a stream

of thoughts

[Green Girl]

I like

the fact

that I can

read downward

instead of

darting my eyes

right to left

I like

other things too

:)

[teflon_john]

avanti is diva plavalanguna

singing the opera of anarchotechnoprimitivism as the fifth element

the supreme being

which is more fragile than it seems

it needs our help

and our love

or we shall die

"the stones, where are they?"

"the stones..."

"...are in me."

http://mimg.ugo.com/201012/4/5/1/134154/cuts/fifth-element-diva-plavalaguna_480_poster.jpg

[GoddessCleoLover]

When I stopped read SciFi I knew I was gonna miss out on something.;)

[Dennis the 'Bloody Peasant']

So, lots of fucking and laughing basically...fair enough I suppose

(Edit - Seems less heavy and complicated than what Lenin, Luxembourg and many others have been one about)

[hetz]

I must say I've learned to appreciate Avanti more. At first I thought he/she was just a spammer.