Revolution Is Universal

[Avanti]

no human being brought under in the system can make a revolution

you are caught in the mental matrix of Babylon

you are confused

education, media, boxes and parents have maladjusted your synapses

there are several boxes

we live our lives inside boxes

four walls, a floor and a ceiling

one door

maybe a few windows

what you see through your windows ain't real

it becomes real when you can touch it, dig into it, taste it, feel it, sense it, be it

our civilization is a civilization of boxes

boxes where we live

boxes where we are indoctrinated

boxes where we get stuff

boxes where we do stuff so we get money so we can get stuff

boxes are named after their functionality

functionalities are a sign of alienation, to ascribe certain functions and deny your individuality and the reality of the existence

your parents were indoctrinated

by their church, by their schools, by their party

you are indoctrinated too

indoctrinated into our language

our language is a tool of oppression, a tool for ascribing and legetimizing what makes us unfree

being a human should be a wonderful experience, but is turned into a world of exploitation, treason, sadism, violence and fear, a brutal existence of torturing the mind, all brought by the overlords of Babylon, the great captains of finance and industry

the truth however is

that it is you who are oppressing yourself

you are reproducing the systems of oppression inside your own mind and heart

you are filled with concepts shaped by your upbringing in a world of boxes

in a world of being boxed in

we need to drill our way to heaven

identifying the internalization of oppression is the way

you must begin by making a revolution against yourself

and question all norms and foundations for society

instead of being inside boxes, looking out

we'll wander between the boxes

that's our dimension which our physical bodies interact with

we the barefoot lost children of Babylon

we who will need to walk through the urban jungle to cleanse ourselves from all the lies and oppression within our minds

this generation is lost

if a new generation can be raised outside the gaze of the pyramid eye of Babylon

there is hope

hope for true communism to free humanity

hope that we can roam around like wild and free beings, surrounded by our universal love

but no one born dead, born inside the machine, know what the light is

only the lost children know

only the weed can liberate the garden

[Jesus Saves Gretzky Scores]

*slow clap*

[hatzel]

being a human should be a wonderful experience, but is turned into a world of exploitation, treason, sadism, violence and fear, a brutal existence of torturing the mind, all brought by the overlords of Babylon, the great captains of finance and industry

A lesser man that me would call this structural antisemitism. However, I'm not a lesser man than me (in fact I'm greater than or equal to me) so instead I'll just call it boring-ass liberalism / pseudo-radical posturing, not unlike the rest of this post...

[ind_com]

the truth however is

that it is you who are oppressing yourself



No, the ruling classes are.

[Avanti]

A lesser man that me would call this structural antisemitism. However, I'm not a lesser man than me (in fact I'm greater than or equal to me) so instead I'll just call it boring-ass liberalism / pseudo-radical posturing, not unlike the rest of this post...

you are very 'fraid of your shadows.

how can you liberate the world unless you are liberating yourself from yourself?

also, my communism is far more radical than yours.

one million times more radical your communism than your communism is more radical than slavery.

[Comrade #138672]

No, the ruling classes are.Indeed.


you are very 'fraid of your shadows.

how can you liberate the world unless you are liberating yourself from yourself?

also, my communism is far more radical than yours.

one million times more radical your communism than your communism is more radical than slavery.My Communism is even bigger!

[Avanti]

but my communism got lasers!

:lol:

[l'Enfermé]

My communism is this big

http://acidcow.com/pics/20100621/how_big_17.jpg

[Comrade Samuel]

People laugh at the size of my communism. :crying:

[Hit The North]

I oppressed myself this morning. And I liked it.

[hatzel]

also, my communism is far more radical than yours.

Your communism involves the claim that a 'beautiful' human essence is being held back by the evil schemes of some mysterious, shadowy global cabal. This is not radical in any sense. You blame 'the pyramid eye of Babylon' - since when did radicals entertain themselves with talk of the Illuminati? Instead of analysing social structures and processes, you lay the blame at some ill-defined group steering the masses, as if oppression is the simple result of naughty people doing naughty things. Radicalism is lacking, usurped by a shallow liberal analysis.

[Avanti]

Your communism involves the claim that a 'beautiful' human essence is being held back by the evil schemes of some mysterious, shadowy global cabal. This is not radical in any sense. You blame 'the pyramid eye of Babylon' - since when did radicals entertain themselves with talk of the Illuminati? Instead of analysing social structures and processes, you lay the blame at some ill-defined group steering the masses, as if oppression is the simple result of naughty people doing naughty things. Radicalism is lacking, usurped by a shallow liberal analysis.

Babylon is not a shadowy cabal of people

Babylon is the state-corporate-financial complex

capitalism as sub-sentience and meta-sentience

capitalism is a process of self-replicating oppressions both inside (internally, the mind) and outside (externally, the society)

all this together is the matrix

you cannot break free as long as you are within the system

because even if you overthrow the system

you will just rebuild it, while calling it "socialism"

it will still have schools, police stations, money, theft of a third of the time of all human beings, armies, boxes, soldiers, prisons and committees or "vanguard parties"

everything will have changed

everything will stay the same

that is because you ignore the mind

the conditioning of the mind determines our courses of action

and having grown up in a hierarchic, anti-human society based on exploitation

we'll all are sick

some less than others

but we'll all sick

people indoctrinated through all the structures of this system

cannot make a revolution

you will just perpetuate the old relationships post-revolution

it doesn't matter if the state owns the means of production

it's still exploitation

and that'll happen

because the minds of the people is sick

only a generation brought up outside the system

can hope to overthrow it

thence Cyberpunk NeoTribes

[GoddessCleoLover]

If we destroy capitalism throughout the entire world perhaps we can build something truly different and better. Cyberpunk neo-Tribes seems a roundabout way of accomplishing this task. The proletariat can accomplish the task.

[Avanti]

If we destroy capitalism throughout the entire world perhaps we can build something truly different and better. Cyberpunk neo-Tribes seems a roundabout way of accomplishing this task. The proletariat can accomplish the task.

the point is, we can not

because if we overthrow it tomorrow morning

we'll rebuild the relationships tomorrow afternoon

because we're all been brought up under conditions that's destroyed our values

the proletariat cares mostly for bread and circuses

and dreams of owning their own houses, their own cars, to send their kids to colllege and to increase in class status

the only ones who can lead a revolution

are the wretched of the earth

the lost children of Babylon

the NeoTribes

[Comrade #138672]

the point is, we can not

because if we overthrow it tomorrow morning

we'll rebuild the relationships tomorrow afternoon

because we're all been brought up under conditions that's destroyed our values

the proletariat cares mostly for bread and circuses

and dreams of owning their own houses, their own cars, to send their kids to colllege and to increase in class status

the only ones who can lead a revolution

are the wretched of the earth

the lost children of Babylon

the NeoTribesSo are you anti-worker?

[Avanti]

no.

but the working class is dying out.

and evidently, the worker class is very much anti-worker.

which makes

either the vanguard of the proletariat has failed

or the workers want something different

than the vanguard of the proletariat

i am not a worker

i'm a lumpenproletarian

the longest time i've had an employment

was six weeks

[Comrade #138672]

no.

but the working class is dying out.

and evidently, the worker class is very much anti-worker.

which makes

either the vanguard of the proletariat has failed

or the workers want something different

than the vanguard of the proletariat

i am not a worker

i'm a lumpenproletarian

the longest time i've had an employment

was six weeksWell, you're still part of the working class. I think that you should identify with the working class.

No. I don't think the working class is dying out. It will stay very big and will probably become even bigger.

[The Garbage Disposal Unit]

I don't think Avanti's communism (as confusingly articulated as it may be) involves a shadowy cabal or anything quite so esoteric. Rather, behind the poetics, there is, in my reading (please correct me if I'm wrong, Avanti), a grasp of the relationship of domination wherein, for example, the working class materially reproduces capitalism by its labour. Probably you could just read Avanti's posts as dialectical materialism in the words of Lewis Carol or something.

[Avanti]

if your beliefs make you happier

then you shall hold on to them

who knows

maybe you can form

a NeoTribe

which dresses like 1930-style workers

[Avanti]

I don't think Avanti's communism (as confusingly articulated as it may be) involves a shadowy cabal or anything quite so esoteric. Rather, behind the poetics, there is, in my reading (please correct me if I'm wrong, Avanti), a grasp of the relationship of domination wherein, for example, the working class materially reproduces capitalism by its labour. Probably you could just read Avanti's posts as dialectical materialism in the words of Lewis Carol or something.

allegorical speech

is the superior form of speech

you can hide a dozen truths

in a sentence

that doesn't make any immediate sense for the conscious

my words are a stream of bullets

piercing through the conscious

penetrating deep into the subconscious

before we can rebel against Babylon

we must rebel against the Babylon within

[Comrade #138672]

allegorical speech

is the superior form of speech

you can hide a dozen truths

in a sentence

that doesn't make any immediate sense for the conscious

my words are a stream of bullets

piercing through the conscious

penetrating deep into the subconscious

before we can rebel against Babylon

we must rebel against the Babylon withinYes, we should rebel against Capitalism from within too, but this doesn't mean that workers are oppressing themselves.

[Avanti]

i cannot see

how people indoctrinated through their parents, schools, media, commercials, the state, the laws

can be able to not reproduce oppression when the system collapses

most new systems have just reproduced social hierarchies under new names

NeoTribes are superior, because they are small

they are egalitarian

they are flexible

they are outside the chain of production

and necessitates a new thinking

a de-intoxication of the mind

but the first and second generations won't be able to do a true revolution

only the third generation can

[TheRedAnarchist23]

Avanti's rep reached 100 in just some days due to the stuff he writes.
How come my rep does not go up 100 when I write my nonsence?
Is it because I do not write it like Avanti does?

First

We must become conscious

Of society

Then we can begin

to think on how to change it

There you go, now where are my 100 reps!?

[The Garbage Disposal Unit]

before we can rebel against Babylon

we must rebel against the Babylon within

I have to disagree - I think the two are inextricably intertwined. After all, on what basis can our consciousness develop within the material confines on the capitalist totality? The tail, as it goes, doesn't wag the dog, but neither, by the same token, does the dog wag the tail outside of the context that produces the dog, and it impossible to take any of the elements in-and-of-itself and derive meaningful conclusions from them. If we insist on developing the correct consciousness for the reality we'd like to live in, we'll wait forever - on the contrary, we must act within and against the current reality, and come to daggers drawn with it. "A revolution" isn't a thing - it is a process, within which (capitalist) subjects are confronted with themselves-as-such as a material limit to be overcome. This "overcoming" is the basis communism - and the subjective transformation that I understand you to be talking about.

(See also - the shit in my signature)

[Avanti]

we'll don't wait forever

if we act

we act

by liberating ourselves

and become hunter-gatherers

in the neon forests

of collapsing mega-cities

under decaying Cyberpunk capitalism

the working class is dying out

replaced by machines

all governed by the great machine

which is ruled

by the pyramid eye of Babylon

the masses

will be stranded

without healthcare or education

they will finally be free from the shackles

now we must liberate them spiritually

revolution is about idealism

about externalizing what is internal

what cannot be expressed in words

only expressed through actions

[hatzel]

all governed by the great machine

which is ruled

by the pyramid eye of Babylon

Stop saying this and then claiming you're not talking about conspiracies. You were getting better for a moment, after you dropped all this talk of 'overlords' and the Illuminati, but now you're right back in it. Saying 'I'm not talking about a conspiracy, I'm talking about a complex/machine/etc.' means nothing whatsoever if you continue to position a conspiracy behind said complex/machine/etc. Conspiracy rhetoric is inherently reactionary.

[Avanti]

Stop saying this and then claiming you're not talking about conspiracies. You were getting better for a moment, after you dropped all this talk of 'overlords' and the Illuminati, but now you're right back in it. Saying 'I'm not talking about a conspiracy, I'm talking about a complex/machine/etc.' means nothing whatsoever if you continue to position a conspiracy behind said complex/machine/etc. Conspiracy rhetoric is inherently reactionary.

conspiracy rhetoric is effective

the conspiracists blow it

when they go into details and specifics

no details

no specifics

the dumber the better

if there is no illuminati

we'll have to invent them

as an allegory

for a reality

too complex to grasp

talking too much about the labour theory of value

proletarians

surplus

exploitation

divides the hatred of the masses

better keep it unified

but vague

so everyone can read what they want into what they read

[GoddessCleoLover]

That is a rather cynical theory of politics. I hope that you are being facetious.

[Avanti]

politics is cynicism

politics is just a role-playing game

which leaves all dreams broken

[hatzel]

conspiracy rhetoric is effective

the conspiracists blow it

when they go into details and specifics

no details

no specifics

the dumber the better

if there is no illuminati

we'll have to invent them

as an allegory

for a reality

too complex to grasp

talking too much about the labour theory of value

proletarians

surplus

exploitation

divides the hatred of the masses

better keep it unified

but vague

so everyone can read what they want into what they read

Pull your head out of your jacksy so that you can shove your privilege up it. This is an open door to antisemitism; any half-decent radical politics wouldn't touch this shit with a bargepole.

[Avanti]

Pull your head out of your jacksy so that you can shove your privilege up it. This is an open door to antisemitism; any half-decent radical politics wouldn't touch this shit with a bargepole.

awareness

is not knowing fancy words

it is knowing

when something is a threat or not

people are most afraid of what they don't really know

none of us really knows about what capitalism is

because we only see small parts of it

do you really know we're not controlled by robot insects from a parallel dimension in the future?

really?

you see

therefore, the best is to be vague

fun that you talk about privilege

i know i am privileged

when i was 12, i ran away from home

the same autumn, i was molested by a wannabe rich stockbroker

since age 14, i haven't sat my foot inside a school building, except when i burnt down one

i have had my left arm scarred by fire

a nazi broke all my fingers on my left hand

i have been beaten by the german riot police

i have lived on the streets

have you ever lied under a carbon blanket in zero degrees and trying to sleep for a few minutes?

have you ever got lost in a forest for one week, living on wild berries?

i consider myself privileged

i have had experiences very few people in first world countries have had

i am a survivor

i know the language of the survivors

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

allegorical speech

is the superior form of speech

you can hide a dozen truths

in a sentence

that doesn't make any immediate sense for the conscious

my words are a stream of bullets

piercing through the conscious

penetrating deep into the subconscious

before we can rebel against Babylon

we must rebel against the Babylon within

Allegory's great for the arts, but when dealing with reality we need to be precise. Allegory isn't precise.

[Avanti]

allegory allows us to transmit infinite proposals in one sentence.

preciseness is exclusive.

and thus fractional.

and serves to enslave the human mind.

[Avanti]

allegory allows us to transmit infinite proposals in one sentence.

preciseness is exclusive.

and thus fractional.

and serves to enslave the human mind.

[Anarchocommunaltoad]

allegory allows us to transmit infinite proposals in one sentence.

preciseness is exclusive.

and thus fractional.

and serves to enslave the human mind.

And there you have it folks, the wisdom of folly is upon us

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

allegory allows us to transmit infinite proposals in one sentence.

preciseness is exclusive.

and thus fractional.

and serves to enslave the human mind.

But the "infinite proposals" are subject to the interpretation of the reader. Precision is exclusive, yes, but for the right reasons - it excludes that which is incorrect or vague. It's not fractional if it is based on objective evidence rather than subjective opinion. Knowing the precise truth about the workings of the universe does anything but enslave human minds. In fact, the more we know about the universe to greater degrees of precision, the more ability we have to change the universe to suit ourselves.

That's not enslavement, that's empowerment.

[Avanti]

the more we know

the less we know

and that is the beauty of knowledge

if everything is excluded and we know everything

everything would be meaningless

we need myths

we need raunching wild dreams

we need mysticism

we need passion

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

the more we know

the less we know

and that is the beauty of knowledge

While it is often the case that answering one question opens up new questions, so what? We're still getting answers. More questions provide the opportunity for more answers.


if everything is excluded and we know everything

everything would be meaningless

But can we know everything? We won't know if we don't try.


we need myths

we need raunching wild dreams

we need mysticism

we need passion

We've had those things for far longer than we have had scientific methods of enquiry. Yet which one has helped to transform the human world?

[Avanti]

transform it into a global prison

where children are physically tortured

molested

and indoctrinated

having their entire childhood stolen

where most people are eating anti-depressants

and feeling badly

there's no true beauty in Babylon

just an empty and meaningless race to the top for the individual

and a race to the bottom for the Earth

humans need both a brain, a mind and a heart

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

transform it into a global prison

where children are physically tortured

molested

and indoctrinated

having their entire childhood stolen

where most people are eating anti-depressants

and feeling badly

Worse shit was happening before the earliest scientific methods were a twinkle in an Enlightenment scholar's eye. It happened to more of the population as well. And we didn't have nearly as many drugs to help with the resulting pain and illness.

I have a good friend who would have killed himself were it not for anti-depressants, so you should feel fucking ashamed of yourself.

[Avanti]

the reason your friend needed anti-depressants

was because the system messed him up

in a natural society

where humans aren't denied their humanity

where we aren't forced to sit on our asses all the time

people will feel better and more healthy

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

the reason your friend needed anti-depressants

was because the system messed him up

in a natural society

where humans aren't denied their humanity

where we aren't forced to sit on our asses all the time

people will feel better and more healthy

A better society won't be formed by abandoning politics. It won't be formed by abandoning science and the fruits of the Enlightenment. It won't be formed by mythologising and magical thinking. We've lived like that before, and what was a consequence of that? Fucking Christendom, that's what.

[Avanti]

original christianity was corrupted by the roman empire

the elite will try to corrupt everything

even the teachings of avanti

anti-avanti propaganda is frequent here

but maybe the leaders of revleft

are selected

to catch revolutionaries

and prevent them

from reaching a higher consciousness

by distracting the people

with discussions

about trotsky-vs-stalin?

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

Nope, Christianity has been rotten since the very beginning. It started as a heretical strand of Judaism and got worse from there.

If you think that the staff on this forum have been specially selected to block the spread of whatever idiosyncratic syncretic mess of an ideology you're holding to today, then you have an extremely over-inflated sense of your own importance or significance.

As for Trotsky v Stalin, that's an argument older than the internet, let alone this website.

[Avanti]

Nope, Christianity has been rotten since the very beginning. It started as a heretical strand of Judaism and got worse from there.

If you think that the staff on this forum have been specially selected to block the spread of whatever idiosyncratic syncretic mess of an ideology you're holding to today, then you have an extremely over-inflated sense of your own importance or significance.

As for Trotsky v Stalin, that's an argument older than the internet, let alone this website.

the Christ came

to elevate the wretched of the Earth

his teachings were corrupted

look after those

who wants to corrupt

the teachings of the Avanti

NeoAnarchism is not an ideology

NeoAnarchism is life, love and existence

it's the water of life

it's the spiritual and existential truth

in your heart

you know it's true

and it can only grow

the Avanti

is a guerilla fighter

his words are his bullets

penetrating the shadows of ignorance

with the light of Communism

soon

Revleft

will be

AvantiLeft

[JimmyVi]

I have read all . That's great .

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

You're not a messiah. You're a very naughty boy.

By the way, my heart doesn't know anything. It pumps blood around my body quite nicely, though.

[Avanti]

i am not the messiah

i am the Avanti

and you could be the Avanti as well

you all can

[Jimmie Higgins]

Avanti's rep reached 100 in just some days due to the stuff he writes.
How come my rep does not go up 100 when I write my nonsence?
Is it because I do not write it like Avanti does?

First

We must become conscious

Of society

Then we can begin

to think on how to change it

There you go, now where are my 100 reps!?

Don't be a biter.:lol:

Avanti's style is ideocyncratic but Avanti's politics (sorry, Avanti, but anti-politics is still a political view) are not nonsense or gibberish as some people have said - the ideas have some pretty clear precidents among a few traddition in and out of anarchist thought - a bit of negri, a bit of Holloway. It doesn't mean you have to agree, but it's not nonsense.

I may not agree with the ideas on a tactical or even conceptual level (I don't think the working class is dieing and I don't think capitalism is qualitativly changing - change and the flow of capital [which translates into fluid changes in the lives of workers] is the nature of capitalism), but they are worthy of dicussion. However if Avanti is dismissive/skeptical of the value of trying to get a concrete handle on politics and strategy, they discussion may not go far with him at any rate:lol:.


But the "infinite proposals" are subject to the interpretation of the reader. Precision is exclusive, yes, but for the right reasons - it excludes that which is incorrect or vague. It's not fractional if it is based on objective evidence rather than subjective opinion. Knowing the precise truth about the workings of the universe does anything but enslave human minds. In fact, the more we know about the universe to greater degrees of precision, the more ability we have to change the universe to suit ourselves.

That's not enslavement, that's empowerment.

And more specifically, in regards to liberation, we can learn from experience and try and figure out what does and does not work. We can't predict anything perfectly, but we can get a better sense of things.

Bourgoise science is very precice when it comes to things that will help capital - it is very idealist and imprecise when it comes to subjects which may have a "revolutionary bias". So social sciences, economics, etc are more obfuscating than enlightening, more bourgois assumptions than universal (as much as it claims to be so). If they can use engineering to make planes fly and skyscrapers and bridges, then there is no "scientific" reason such a developed use of knowlege couldn't also figure out that surplus grain and food can easily feed starving people rather than be thrown away or farmers paid not to grow to maintain prices. So it's not science which is the problem, it's who organizes it and for what purposes.

Why I like poetics for art, but not for politics is for the reasons you wrote.

The scientific discoveries at the dawn of capitalism happened because the rising capitalists needed more precice and better knowledge of the world - to both understand it to change it, and later to just outright commodify it (to dissect, is to destroy as William Blake said as capitalists scrambeled to classify and divide up the world into its commodifyable bits). Workers too will need a precise understanding of the world in order to put it back together again.

Poetics and allegory are good for motivating people, but it's also limiting (and problematic because it can be intepreted for opposite ends by enemies of liberation, as the concerns in this thread of the concept of "illuminati") and it doesn't help people gain an understanding in which they can empower themselves rather than be motivated by others.

[The Garbage Disposal Unit]

I think science and theory can be every bit as limiting, every bit as subject to limitation, and every bit as obfuscating as poetics and allegory (and, for that matter, the distinction is more blurry than dictated by so-called "common sense"). One could posit a "pure" science or theory that is "true", but it would have to exist in a vacuum, which of course is a lovely irony, no? To simply dismiss this by saying "it depends who uses it for what purposes" empties it of its historical reality.

While I disagree with Avanti significantly as regards what constitutes effective communist strategy for dismantling "Babylon", I do think their skepticism vis-a-vis hegemonic enlightenment thought - which ultimately carries with it the dead weight of its constituent political project, liberalism - is valid.

That's not to posit a necessity for rejecting science all together - only to say it has to be deeply problematized, and undermined in its status as the only authentic way of knowing.