Shhhhh (they don't need to know)

[Anarchocommunaltoad]

Is it wise to be so doctrinaire during protests and shit when you're trying to attract the average person?Example A. Openly stating you're against marriage or the justice system (scares women) or B. Saying that you'd push for an atheist society in a land where many still go to church (and some of those still actually believe)

[Avanti]

if you don't do that.

you end up as the democratic party.

if you shock people out of their sleep, they'll hate you.

then they'll join you.

but anarchism is dead.

neo-anarchism is the only current left with a viable analysis.

the people don't reject the left because it is radical.

the people rejects it because it is whiny.

[Mass Grave Aesthetics]

what are you on about?

[hatzel]

the people don't reject the left because it is radical.

the people rejects it because it is whiny.

Actually I get the feeling they reject it because they can't be bothered to read a bunch of vacuous sentences each to its own line...

[Anarchocommunaltoad]

Another example: I get that romanticism is bad and that (according to many here) good and evil is subjective. But do you need to scream that to people who could just as reasonibly sit back and indulge in the benefits of an oppressive system?

[Avanti]

Actually I get the feeling they reject it because they can't be bothered to read a bunch of vacuous sentences each to its own line...

that's true.

the dumber the better.

"yes we can" was brilliant.

[Anarchocommunaltoad]

if you don't do that.

you end up as the democratic party.

if you shock people out of their sleep, they'll hate you.

then they'll join you.

but anarchism is dead.

neo-anarchism is the only current left with a viable analysis.

the people don't reject the left because it is radical.

the people rejects it because it is whiny.


That's not what i'm talking about

I'm referring to he who uses a loud voice for small hypothesie

Lets put the poetic ramblings asiiide.

[hatzel]

Another example: I get that romanticism is bad and that (according to many here) good and evil is subjective. But do you need to scream that to people who could just as reasonibly sit back and indulge in the benefits of an oppressive system?

Question: are there actually people out there somewhere holding protests against romanticism and why would they waste their time doing that and why would it matter?

[Anarchocommunaltoad]

Question: are there actually people out there somewhere holding protests against romanticism and why would they waste their time doing that and why would it matter?

The ultra intellectual leftist

[Mass Grave Aesthetics]

is the toad arguing against sectarianism or for a less-is-more approach to agitation?

[Anarchocommunaltoad]

is the toad arguing against sectarianism or for a less-is-more approach to agitation?

Initial less is more approach (based on its "success" in Cuba and Venezuela)

[cynicles]

What the hell is this thread even talking about?

[Avanti]

that looking radical is scaring of non-radical people from radical organizations?

[Anarchocommunaltoad]

What the hell is this thread even talking about?

Openly supporting the most radical elements of leftism (abolishing of religion, personal property, et cetera) is not always the smartest thing. Saying that there is no right thing to do is also pretty dumb

[ВАЛТЕР]

Communists do not mask our goals. Our abolishing of religion isn't a forced thing, it is a thing that will happen by itself over time. What we aim to do is abolish the institutions which represent religions as they in their current form are bourgeois and use their power to spread bourgeois ideology.

[Lenina Rosenweg]

Is it wise to be so doctrinaire during protests and shit when you're trying to attract the average person?Example A. Openly stating you're against marriage or the justice system (scares women) or B. Saying that you'd push for an atheist society in a land where many still go to church (and some of those still actually believe)

I don;'t think protesters for LGBT or women's rights are "against marriage or the justice system". Many, including myself, question the bourgeois institution of marriage but I don't know anyone who wants to abolish people's right to get married. We recognize the limitations of a legal system under capitalism but I don't know anyone who wants to destroy the judicial system.

I don't know of anyone who is pushing for an atheist society either.

Rasdical leftists do want to fight the control of capital over all aspectsof our lives and fight for women's rights, LGBT people, and for atheists to express themselves.

[GoddessCleoLover]

Some of us regard the abolition of religion and personal property as contrary to sound Marxian theory and practice. Certain so-called socialist regimes have taken an extreme anti-religious position, I believe that Albania during the Enver Hoxha era used the power of the state to suppress religion. The only revolutionary regime that attempted to suppress personal property rights was the Khmer Rouge, and they are rightly considered purveyors of a perverted form of socialism. Many revolutionaries are strongly opposed to the concept of an all-powerful state dictating to people what they may or may not believe. IMO it is frankly un-Marxian to equate the personal property of the masses with capital, no serious Marxist would advocate abolishing personal property rights.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

Some of us regard the abolition of religion and personal property as contrary to sound Marxian theory and practice. Certain so-called socialist regimes have taken an extreme anti-religious position, I believe that Albania during the Enver Hoxha era used the power of the state to suppress religion. The only revolutionary regime that attempted to suppress personal property rights was the Khmer Rouge, and they are rightly considered purveyors of a perverted form of socialism. Many revolutionaries are strongly opposed to the concept of an all-powerful state dictating to people what they may or may not believe. IMO it is frankly un-Marxian to equate the personal property of the masses with capital, no serious Marxist would advocate abolishing personal property rights.

Or maybe the use of state power is the wrong way to go if one truly wants to eradicate religion. Killing priests and trashing churches doesn't address the root causes of religiosity. Kind of like treating a skin disease by flaying oneself.

[GoddessCleoLover]

I would love to see the eradication of religion, but attempts to use state power to do so have backfired. The Russian Orthodox church is powerful again, and Soviet-era repression only served to generate sympathy for that church. In Poland, the Catholic Church actually increased in popularity as a result of its opposition to an unpopular Soviet-installed "socialist" regime. Fidel Castro was intelligent enough to learn from the negative Soviet/Polish experience and changed policy in an attempt to co-opt the Catholic church in Cuba. We ought to be smart enough to take a cue from Fidel Castro.

[TheGodlessUtopian]

I don;'t think protesters for LGBT or women's rights are "against marriage or the justice system". Many, including myself, question the bourgeois institution of marriage but I don't know anyone who wants to abolish people's right to get married. We recognize the limitations of a legal system under capitalism but I don't know anyone who wants to destroy the judicial system.

I don't know of anyone who is pushing for an atheist society either.

Rasdical leftists do want to fight the control of capital over all aspectsof our lives and fight for women's rights, LGBT people, and for atheists to express themselves.


Is it wise to be so doctrinaire during protests and shit when you're trying to attract the average person?Example A. Openly stating you're against marriage or the justice system (scares women) or B. Saying that you'd push for an atheist society in a land where many still go to church (and some of those still actually believe)


As Lenina said, marriage is a round-about question, it does not only effect woman but men as well, in addition towards homosexual individuals whom the question of marriage struggle is relevant. Such issues cross-over with other segments of our society showing that nothing is isolated to a specific group of people.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

I would love to see the eradication of religion, but attempts to use state power to do so have backfired. The Russian Orthodox church is powerful again, and Soviet-era repression only served to generate sympathy for that church. In Poland, the Catholic Church actually increased in popularity as a result of its opposition to an unpopular Soviet-installed "socialist" regime. Fidel Castro was intelligent enough to learn from the negative Soviet/Polish experience and changed policy in an attempt to co-opt the Catholic church in Cuba. We ought to be smart enough to take a cue from Fidel Castro.

Nuh-uh screw that. The church shouldn't be allowed anywhere near any organs of governance. Just because cutting their heads off is counter-productive doesn't mean it's a good idea to take the opposite tack and actually integrate the bunch of old frauds.

[Avanti]

Nuh-uh screw that. The church shouldn't be allowed anywhere near any organs of governance. Just because cutting their heads off is counter-productive doesn't mean it's a good idea to take the opposite tack and actually integrate the bunch of old frauds.

the dictatorship of the proletariat

cannot beat heaven

[GoddessCleoLover]

Unless I am badly mistaken I do not believe that the Catholic church has been reintegrated into the Cuban state, has it?

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

the dictatorship of the proletariat

cannot beat heaven

Yes it can. For a start, the proletariat actually exists.


Unless I am badly mistaken I do not believe that the Catholic church has been reintegrated into the Cuban state, has it?

You used the word "co-opt". While the Catholic Church may not be part of the Cuban government on paper, in reality the Church is subservient to the State in Cuba. Unless of course Castro has made significant concessions to the Church, real revolutionary of him (not).