Bal Thackeray, a Hindu nationalist, dies at age 86.

[Robespierres Neck]

"I am a great admirer of Hitler, and I am not ashamed to say so! I do not say that I agree with all the methods he employed, but he was a wonderful organizer and orator, and I feel that he and I have several things in common... What India really needs is a dictator who will rule benevolently, but with an iron hand."

http://www.aninews.in/contentimages/detail/balthackeray.jpg

[Goblin]

Glad hes dead!

[TheGodlessUtopian]

Well, seeing as how the Naxalites are holding up I do not think he is going to get his way. Besides, India coming under the rule of a person/ group that would do to India what Hitler did to Germany seems a bit much; great man theory taken to its predictably lofty conclusion by reactionaries.

[l'Enfermé]

Good riddance, eh?

[ВАЛТЕР]

What an asshole. Glad he's out of the way. Although, how many batshit crazy followers did he have?

[Sir Comradical]

It's disgusting how many people are mourning this scumbag.

http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/thackerays-stature-was-unique-manmohan/article4106445.ece

[Art Vandelay]

About time.

[GoddessCleoLover]

Too bad that he never fell into the hands of the Naxalites. Good riddance to the crypto-Nazi scum.

[Beeth]

I don't like nationalism of any kind, but one has to distinguish between different forms. Black nationalism, for instance, isn't oppressive like white nationalism. It is a mere reaction, and has to be understood in that connection only. Hindu nationalism should also be understood in the context of Indian history, what Hindus went through in the past, etc.

[ind_com]

I don't like nationalism of any kind, but one has to distinguish between different forms. Black nationalism, for instance, isn't oppressive like white nationalism. It is a mere reaction, and has to be understood in that connection only. Hindu nationalism should also be understood in the context of Indian history, what Hindus went through in the past, etc.

In the present Indian context, Hindu nationalism, or Brahmanism, is the most reactionary cultural ideology. It is responsible for the oppression and massacre of many non-Hindu communities and lower-caste peoples in India.

[Beeth]

In the present Indian context, Hindu nationalism, or Brahmanism, is the most reactionary cultural ideology. It is responsible for the oppression and massacre of many non-Hindu communities and lower-caste peoples in India.

This seems to be an exaggeration - Hindus are not a powerful community like evangelical Christians (in the US) to cause damage. Throwing around big words like massacre does not help - hindu nationalists are a nuisance, that's all.

[ind_com]

This seems to be an exaggeration - Hindus are not a powerful community like evangelical Christians (in the US) to cause damage. Throwing around big words like massacre does not help - hindu nationalists are a nuisance, that's all.

You have no idea of what you're talking about.

[Avanti]

from what i heard

from a few christians in a community project i'm in

is that thousands of christians, buddhists and muslims

are killed by hindu nationalists

every year

[GoddessCleoLover]

Good point, Avanti. Bai Thackeray incited Hindus to murder those who ascribe to other religions. The more I read about the guy, the more I am convinced that he ought to have been hanged. Too bad he never fell into Naxalite hands.

[ind_com]

After his death a girl wrote a comment on Facebook claiming that Mumbai had gone silent out of fear, not respect, for him. For this she was arrested by the police and hit by Shivsena activists while in police-custody.

[GoddessCleoLover]

Thanks for posting that ind.com. The fact that the Mumbai police were willing to do the bidding of the Shivsena fascists and arrest and brutalize that courageous young woman is outrageous.

[B.K.]

It's disgusting how many people are mourning this scumbag.


What India really needs is a dictator who will rule benevolently, but with an iron hand

It all sounds too familiar... Feels bad living in a country where at least 60-70% of population hold quite similar views.

[Zostrianos]

from what i heard
from a few christians in a community project i'm in
is that thousands of christians, buddhists and muslims
are killed by hindu nationalists
every year


A lot of the violence directed by Hindus against Christians is a reaction to increasing abuses by Christian missionaries in India. E.g., the Orissa riots were triggered when Christians murdered a Hindu swami who was trying to protect tribal villagers against the missionaries (the hit was ordered by an official working for the Christian "charity" World Vision, and self proclaimed Maoists claimed responsibility for the killing), and so the Hindus reacted by attacking local Christian communities - sadly, this only serves to strengthen Hindu nationalism. And as far as extremism goes, Hindu, while dangerous in its own right, doesn't compare to Islamic extremism, not by a long shot.. Moreover, in parts of northern India, the most dangerous terrorist group around is the NLFT, a Christian baptist militia who wants to establish a theocracy in the Tripura region, and they routinely raid villages and forcibly convert local Hindus at gunpoint. And I wouldn't trust the Naxalites to make things better: there's proof of collaboration between them and aggressive missionaries in many parts of India, and some missionaries have reportedly used threats of Naxalite attacks to convert Hindus. So no, I'm not rooting for any faction in India.

[hetz]

E.g., the Orissa riots were triggered when Christians murdered a Hindu swami who was trying to protect tribal villagers against the missionariesLol you're making it sound as if these missionaries are bloodthirsty murderers armed to the teeth.

I trust what Indian comrades said in this thread.

[L.A.P.]

Just to clarify Beeth's point, I have bourgeois family in India and they believe the same things Beeth is saying. It's the Indian ideological equivalent of European-American Protestants being threatened by minorities. Bourgeoius Hindus have this crazy belief that what Hindus went through under the Mughal Empire and current relations with Pakistan ("what Hindus went throught in the past" boo fucking hoo with your fake outrage) justifies the fundamentalism and the delusional notion that the Muslim minority are discriminating against the Hindu majority. It's actually really hilarious how oppressed bourgeois Hindus feel they are, they make American evengelicals look rational. Hindu nationalists are by far the most prominent reactionary force terrorizing people, it's not even like one of those things where you have both groups in mutual conflict, it's just Hindu quasi-fascists fucking up Muslim neighborhoods.

[Zostrianos]

Something I find especially heinous with Hindu nationalism is they're trying to pervert Hinduism (a tolerant faith, unlike Christianity and Islam), into an intolerant, hateful ideology. Their efforts will fail miserably in the end, however they may try.

[Sperm-Doll Setsuna]

Something I find especially heinous with Hindu nationalism is they're trying to pervert Hinduism (a tolerant faith, unlike Christianity and Islam), into an intolerant, hateful ideology. Their efforts will fail miserably in the end, however they may try.

Except, not really. A faith is bugger all on its own. It doesn't exist separate from the general cultural climate.

[GoddessCleoLover]

All religions have issues, but didn't the caste system stem from Hinduism?

[Zostrianos]

It occurs in other faiths in India as well (Indian Christians are subject to it as well), and some scholars have proposed that it was only during the British Raj that caste really became enforced. Caste is by no means unique to Hinduism or India:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caste_system_among_South_Asian_Muslims
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caste#Europe
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caste_system_in_Africa

[ind_com]

It occurs in other faiths in India as well (Indian Christians are subject to it as well), and some scholars have proposed that it was only during the British Raj that caste really became enforced. Caste is by no means unique to Hinduism or India:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caste_system_among_South_Asian_Muslims
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caste#Europe
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caste_system_in_Africa

The caste-system has existed for thousands of years in India. It had been the cultural base for Indian slave-society as well as Indian feudalism. It is an inseparable part of Hinduism. Other religions in India have included the caste-system more recently, over the last few centuries, because it is very efficient in keeping the masses down. Still, the official justification of caste-system is to be found only in Hinduism.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

What is the official justification?

[ind_com]

What is the official justification?

The castes were assigned different duties as they popped up from different parts of god's body, and they are better suited than others to do their jobs. A person is reincarnated according to the amount of good and bad deeds he does in his previous birth. So, the lower-castes are themselves responsible for their miserable conditions, and they should be all good and serve the upper-castes well to be born better next time. This is it.

[GoddessCleoLover]

Doesn't seem progressive to me. Not to mention the issue of the outcastes, the so-called "untouchables". Did this notion predate the British?

[ind_com]

Doesn't seem progressive to me. Not to mention the issue of the outcastes, the so-called "untouchables".

Of course it's not progressive! It serves as a cultural base for feudal exploitation.


Did this notion predate the British?

Yes, by more than a millennium.

[ind_com]

Below is a link to a paper on the caste-question. This was accepted by the CPI-Maoist and is the basis of the caste-line of the party. The page also has links to some other Maoist theoretical works from India.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/82355908/Caste-question-Indian-democratic-revolution-ANURADHA-GANDHI

[Hex_Omega_]

Should have seen the outpouring of grief for this wicked horrible parasite of a human by the media and the sheep alike- vomit inducing apologists to say the least. Nationalism of any kind is dangerous and that chap should have been prosecuted by the law for inciting violence against other religions and communities.