Libertarian party(USA)

[skitty]

I'd appreciate any thoughts on the Libertarian party. I feel that there should be similarities between libertarians and anarchists; but I sense that these libertarians are right-wing. In the recent election they had quite a few attractive positions; but want to abolish the minimum wage and are mute on safety-net issues.

[TheGodlessUtopian]

In short: libertarians and Anarchists have nothing in common.

[Let's Get Free]

The right-wing libertarians aren't really libertarians, and just want oligarchic corporate rule modeled after the American Gilded Age

[Danielle Ni Dhighe]

I'd appreciate any thoughts on the Libertarian party. I feel that there should be similarities between libertarians and anarchists; but I sense that these libertarians are right-wing. In the recent election they had quite a few attractive positions; but want to abolish the minimum wage and are mute on safety-net issues.
In the US, "libertarianism" is used to refer to right-wing ideas, especially economically. The Libertarian Party is economically to the right of the Republican Party.

[cb9's_unity]

From any Marxist, socialist, or anarchist perspective we can sort of fit libertarians in with the liberals. Many among their ranks have their 'hearts' in the right place, the problem being that they haven't though too critically about their own economic and political beliefs.

Basically many libertarians and liberals are decent people in that they oppose the obvious social discrimination against women and the LGBTQ community, as well as often disagreeing with imperialist wars. The problem is that these people can't connect these oppressive relations to capitalism and deny the irreparably oppressive character of capitalism. This problem becomes most clear in the blind spot liberals, and to a greater extent libertarians, have developed in their understanding of race relations. Explicit ideological racism is on the slow march to its death, but institutional racism has been developed in newly vicious and insidious. Because liberals and libertarians exist completely in the sphere of capitalist ideology they are incapable of mounting an offensive against capitalist oppression that manifests itself more exclusively in its structural form. Thus liberals and libertarians can be engaged in political and economic debate without needing to wade into a lot of the moral trash upheld by conservatives.

At the best of times the libertarian party is run by clueless right-wing ideologues who gain a sense of moral superiority solely through their opposition to the ineptly reactionary republicans and the ineptly liberal democrats. At the worst their run by outright capitalist oligarchs like the Koch brothers.

Regardless, every party that is currently the least bit recognizable on the national level is far too entrenched in capitalism for us to even consider them as potential allies in any possible way.

[ZvP]

It's an uninteresting party that only differs from Republicans on a select number of social issues. In fact a lot of the candidates they run are former Republicans, such as Gary Johnson. Just another bourgeois party with no interest in radical change, not even for free market advocates. I do not believe they represent the hard right an-caps either, so really just a socially liberal republican party

[skitty]

In short: libertarians and Anarchists have nothing in common.

Godless, would it be fair to say that anarchism has libertarian aspects?

[Red Commissar]

Ah yes, the enigma of the "Libertarian" handle in the United States. In the distant past the term Libertarian in Europe was once understood to be synonymous with Anarchism, in the sense that the state has no responsibility in dictating the way people choose to live their lives. The "Libertarian Party" in the United States however is an entirely different beast borne out of what is understood to be "libertarian" in the United States.

We have to be careful to take such terms at face value though. If we are to take 'libertarian' for its full meaning, we should take "Democratic" and "Republican" in the same sense for the other parties here in the states. You are right in feeling you get a right-wing vibe from them- that is their nature.

It is true that, generally, Libertarians are for social freedoms. Notwithstanding the lolbertarians and ex-republicans, they are against things like state-enforced racism (segregation and the like) and government intrusion into people's personal lives. The difference here between most real anarchists and Libertarians is the economic positions and the state. Libertarians tie social freedom to economic "freedom"- that is unfettered free-market capitalism. They favor reducing the state's presence in the economy as much as possible, leaving it up to the free market to guide itself. They think that this will line up absolute freedom for people to make their own choices without state coercion.

I would say that in a sense, their positions are more a throwback to classical liberal positions in the end.

I must emphasize here that Libertarians don't favor abolishing the state all together like anarchists, only reducing its functions and roles. They don't mind the existence of a government otherwise to provide some functions like protection of property and ensure the safety of a market (ie from external violence). Anarchists on the other hand oppose the state and capitalism, and they see the two as inseparable. You can't have one with out the other, is the basic gist of their position.

In more recent years, the Libertarian Party has been a strange beast, home to all sorts of odd figures. In addition to the aforementioned typical libertarians, you have the ex-republicans and such who have entered the group in large numbers to try and run under their banner. Both of the party's previous presidential tickets, Bob Barr (who notably returned to the Republican Party and encouraged Libertarians to support Newt Gingrich of all people! :laugh: ) and Gary Johnson, were ex-members of the Republican Party at the time of their campaigns. They have in this sense become more an apologist for the achievement of big businesses and such as something to be encouraged, rather than "constrained", while trying to differentiate themselves from the more socially conservative Republican Party that is obviously alienating the younger generation.

They have, for whatever reason, been able to get the support of youth in some places. I feel this is mainly because of a cursory look at their positions on social issues and the war(s), and lolpot. Deep down I think most people don't really believe in the shrine of the free market beyond some ideologues, so I honestly think most people support the party because of a misunderstanding of what their positions entail.

Anarchists, excluding the oddball ancaps, recognize the role of capitalism in perpetuating racism and poverty. Libertarians on the other hand think the opposite- that capitalism is the tool to do so and has only caused these problems because of its control by a small amount of people.

[TheGodlessUtopian]

Godless, would it be fair to say that anarchism has libertarian aspects?

If by "libertarian" you mean Libertarianism as defined by American Libertarians, than no. If by libertarian you mean "against the state/authority" than yes (in a way).

[skitty]

I'm starting to think all these labels are more trouble than they're worth.

[TheGodlessUtopian]

I'm starting to think all these labels are more trouble than they're worth.

They can be confusing and many certainly are redundant or conflicting but in all I think they serve a purpose in our time with so many conflicting ideologies.Differentiating one ideology from another, after all, has to do with ideological content: the labels are here to merely separate the revolutionary from the reactionary.

[Yet_Another_Boring_Marxist]

Godless, would it be fair to say that anarchism has libertarian aspects?

Libertarian is a word created by Joseph Déjacque to distinquish himself from Proudhon's mutalism. So in sort it's a word for Anarchists who don't like the free market.

Ah how the world has changed.

[Marxaveli]

Anarchists and Marxists are libertarians, I think what you are thinking of, OP, are LOL-bertarians. You know, the ones who get all their info from PrisonPlanet.com, believe that some one world government is going to take over and control us, and that the free-market solves all the worlds problems. :laugh:

[spice756]

I'd appreciate any thoughts on the Libertarian party. I feel that there should be similarities between libertarians and anarchists; but I sense that these libertarians are right-wing. In the recent election they had quite a few attractive positions; but want to abolish the minimum wage and are mute on safety-net issues.


I would say ther are two types of libertarian in US . One type of libertarian believe in free market , no social programs the church or charity help the poor or in need of help . Hate wars , hate the police state and anti prison population. They don't want the church or government telling people what they can or cannot do :lol::lol::lol:so if one wants do drugs yes even hard drugs they say go and do it !! But if you harm others you go to jail.

These types of libertarian in the US are very snall.

The big libertarian movement in US and tee party movement well they believe in the free market and are very anti- government spending and social programs that is all worked up over the debt and government spending in past 5 or 10 years .

But the big libertarian movement in US and tee party movement are very conservative on social issues.