Another 48 hour general strike

[Crux]

An interview with Paris Makrides, Xekinima (Greek CWI) (http://www.socialistworld.net/doc/6027)


But what really infuriates working class people and drives them “mad” is that often breaks on the strikes movement are made by the parties of the Left. For example, a resolution for at least one week’s strike action was voted down on the Central Council of the ADEDY federation (civil servants’ union) because of the votes of the KKE (Communist Party) faction. The resolution for a week’s long strike had the support of 19 votes, with 17 votes against, but the KKE used its seven votes to defeat it.

In the journalists’ union, two days ago, a similar role was played by the SYRIZA faction, which is the biggest faction in that union. The PASOK vote split, with half supporting the demand of the anti-capitalist Left for indefinite strike action. But SYRIZA voted, together with the conservative section of the union, to have only one 24 hour strike and some three hour stoppages.


These examples show the extent to which the mass parties of the Greek Left are far behind the needs of the situation and the mood of the working masses.

[Delenda Carthago]

The fact that people did not strike even for these two days and if we didnt had the demo in the afternoon of the second day it would be a massive failure, does not even occur to the 5 people that consist what we know as "Xekinima", does it? And why should it? Do they get to hold the weight on their shoulders? Do they will have to peak the pieces down from a longer call for a strike that would fail? No, they just sit on their office, isolated from the working class and write critics to everyone*.

The "needs of the situation" is one thing. The "mood of the working masses", another. Unfortunately, not always they are combined. Everybody wishes that the working class would be ready to have a long lasting general strike, but its not. So until then, you fight to climax the struggle.




*And when I say, everyone, I mean everyone: some days ago they accused ANTARSYA for working with Golden Dawn in the Public Bus Drivers syndicate, something completely observe. Disgusting people.

[Crux]

The fact that people did not strike even for these two days and if we didnt had the demo in the afternoon of the second day it would be a massive failure, does not even occur to the 5 people that consist what we know as "Xekinima", does it? And why should it? Do they get to hold the weight on their shoulders? Do they will have to peak the pieces down from a longer call for a strike that would fail? No, they just sit on their office, isolated from the working class and write critics to everyone*.

The "needs of the situation" is one thing. The "mood of the working masses", another. Unfortunately, not always they are combined. Everybody wishes that the working class would be ready to have a long lasting general strike, but its not. So until then, you fight to climax the struggle.




*And when I say, everyone, I mean everyone: some days ago they accused ANTARSYA for working with Golden Dawn in the Public Bus Drivers syndicate, something completely observe. Disgusting people.
I take all and any of your claims with extreme skepticism. Oh they're 5 now? It's funny how, even though you keep changing that number, you're always wrong. In case you forgot I have been to Athens, I have taken part in Xekinimas activities and I have to say, I was impressed by the work the comrades do. Particularly the base of support among immigrant worker's.

[LordAcheron]

seems like the KKE are doing everything they can to protect the current system

[Art Vandelay]

Yawn, I mean I guess this is better than nothing, but how many general strikes have they had in the past ten years? Put down the Luxembourg or Bakunin folks, the mass strike is incapable of posing a serious threat to state power, in most situations.

[The Jay]

Yawn, I mean I guess this is better than nothing, but how many general strikes have they had in the past ten years? Put down the Luxembourg or Bakunin folks, the mass strike is incapable of posing a serious threat to state power, in most situations.

That is false. It does threaten the bourgeoisie and the state cannot enforce their will effectively during a general strike.

You cannot build a house with just a saw.

[Art Vandelay]

That is false.

You have to prove how and frankly I don't see how you can. Name one time a general strike has successfully taken state power? It's been fetishized by some left-coms as well as anarchists and is a failure of a tactic. It can be useful in certain situations, however it is economist in nature and rejects the necessary political struggle the proletariat must engage in, to pose an actual threat to the bourgeoisie.


It does threaten the bourgeoisie and the state cannot enforce their effectively during a general strike.

While the bourgeoisie may temporary lose a bit of social control, it far from threatens them. Look at France in 68', the state was there for the taking, the head of state flown out of the country, the general strike failed.


You cannot build a house with just a saw.


I don't even know what this means.

[Yuppie Grinder]

While the bourgeoisie may temporary lose a bit of social control, it far from threatens them. Look at France in 68', the state was there for the taking, the head of state flown out of the country, the general strike failed.




Exactly. The General Strike is a powerful weapon of class warfare, but never forget that a mass party of the proletariat is necessary for us to take state power.

[Art Vandelay]

Exactly. The General Strike is a powerful weapon of class warfare, but never forget that a mass party of the proletariat is necessary for us to take state power.

Bingo.

[The Jay]

You have to prove how and frankly I don't see how you can. Name one time a general strike has successfully taken state power? It's been fetishized by some left-coms as well as anarchists and is a failure of a tactic. It can be useful in certain situations, however it is economist in nature and rejects the necessary political struggle the proletariat must engage in, to pose an actual threat to the bourgeoisie.


By itself the general strike cannot win power for the proletariat, but it can be a useful tool to use in conjunction or preluding others.

Your second statement that I will be quoting in this response is an example of that proof that you didn't think that I could have provided.



While the bourgeoisie may temporary lose a bit of social control, it far from threatens them. Look at France in 68', the state was there for the taking, the head of state flown out of the country, the general strike failed.



If the state was there for the taking then it seems like a damn good tactic.



I don't even know what this means.


Think about it.

[Art Vandelay]

By itself the general strike cannot win power for the proletariat, but it can be a useful tool to use in conjunction or preluding others.

Which is exactly what I was arguing: that while the general strike or "mass strike" can, at times and in certain situations, be a useful tactic, it ultimately cannot pose a serious threat to state power; now I'm not sure about you, but I'm not interested in temporarily disrupting capital or the bourgeoisie's hegemony, I want to destroy both.


Your second statement that I will be quoting in this response is an example of that proof that you didn't think that I could have provided.

It doesn't make the point you think it does, in fact, quite the opposite.



If the state was there for the taking then it seems like a damn good tactic.

No it doesn't and in fact, you've just further elucidated on what is one of the best historical examples which supports my opinion on the matter. The state was fucking there for the taking and nothing happened! How on earth, you thought that would be a point for you in this exchange is beyond me. There was literally nothing stopping the proletariat from seizing state power, the bourgeoisie were trembling, but due to the fact that the proletariat had not constituted itself into a mass revolutionary vanguard party, the head of state was flown back into the country and the bourgeoisie resumed to overturn whatever gains were made by the insurrection.


Think about it.

I'm not in the mood for riddles, I'm a grump.

[The Jay]

Would it be impossible to combine a general strike with political seizure? If yes then you are just bullshitting yourself. If no, then what is your point?

[Art Vandelay]

Would it be impossible to combine a general strike with political seizure? If yes then you are just bullshitting yourself. If no, then what is your point?

I guess I'm bullshitting myself then. I see not historical precedent as to how it could and on top of that all the modern examples point to my conclusions as well. Greece has had how many in the past decade? Why hasn't it happened yet? Greece would be in a revolutionary situation this instant, if it had a revolutionary vanguard capable of seizing state power.

I mean we could get into how the idea of using the mass strike to seize state power is really trying to con the working class into power, but comrade Q would probably be the best authority on that matter. I'll drop him a link to the thread, as I think this is ultimately a serious issue facing the left today.

[Q]

I mean we could get into how the idea of using the mass strike to seize state power is really trying to con the working class into power, but comrade Q would probably be the best authority on that matter. I'll drop him a link to the thread, as I think this is ultimately a serious issue facing the left today.

I don't know if I'm the best authority on the matter, but I have called bullshit on general strike fetishism in the past and I still do. For now I'll just repost a blogpost of mine, An address to the "general strikists" (http://www.revleft.com/vb/blog.php?b=6618):



One Day Strikes are garbage (In Japan they'll even help with one-day strikes because they know everyone gets back to work the next morning on time). they do nothing but make good photo-ops and headline grabbers for the newspapers, but they're extremely ineffective in accomplishing anything.

This striking doesn't work. They've attempted this in Spain, Greece, Italy, and now the UK--all have and will face austerity cuts. as if nothing happened the day before. and just like all the others, UK is going to face austerity cuts as well. the only way they'll ever fight this is if they not just strike, but boycott ALL work indefinetly.
People can tolerate having to forgo the mail for a day; but when Christmas comes and presents don't come, society will have the backlash on the causation.

The cogs of the machine have to break before they will ever give up the keys

While I agree that striking in itself is no solution or strategy towards anything, I disagree that we therefore need to go even further and adopt a slogan like "all out, stay out" (like the SWP in the UK does for example). This amounts to nothing more than revolutionary phrase-mongering.

The underlying point here is that the strength of the working class lies in its position of running society and that therefore withholding our work strengthens our position. On the contrary, the strength of the working class lies in its alienation from the means of production and the necessary collective action that flows from this position in relation to our society. Said differently, we have to form ourselves as a class before we can pose positive alternatives on society and a strike can help in this process.

Secondly, an actual indefinite general strike is wholly unacceptable as society would cease to function meaning no emergency services, no food in the supermarkets, no water from the tap. So what will actually happen is that a general strike committee must be formed which takes over the tasks of coordinating basic social functions. Of course this point is well understood by the "general strikist" left and it is in fact their intention to reach such strike committees. So, say after three months of a general strike, with social power firmly under control of the general strike committee, the left can go around to the working class and say: "oh by the way, we took over power from the capitalists, long live the revolution!". Or that is the plan in a nutshell.

This however has a major problem: It doesn't work this way. In any historical situation of a prolonged general strike situation or a situation of political melt down of the old order, the working class movement won't just spontaniously conclude to seize power for themselves, but instead will look to alternative but already established authorities. The social-democrats in Portugal in 1974 come to mind as a clear example of this. At another level the Iranian revolution of 1979 is another example. We cannot trick the working class into power.

The strategy then is to build our own alternative authority: that of a self-conscious working class wanting to take power as a class. This is why I think a partyist strategy is needed: A mass politicised working class movement that patiently works to educate, agitate and organise the working class independently and in its own interests on a radical democratic and global level. The left can be a positive triggering point for such a party-movement by uniting on this basis and for a Marxist programme.

Within this framework then a general strike is one available tactic in building our class.

Hope it helps.

[piet11111]

That is false. It does threaten the bourgeoisie and the state cannot enforce their will effectively during a general strike.

A successful general strike poses the question of power.


Not a light bulb shines, not a wheel turns, not a telephone rings, without the permission of the working class.

If its followed up by a back to work order from the union it has failed before it has even begun.

If nobody challenges the power of the state after a general strike its an exercise in futility.

[Os Cangaceiros]

Well, one can't exactly fault the KKE for not trying to "build the party" or whatever. People are talking about these strikes like they're somehow substitutions for party politics, when in reality they're part and parcel to those very same politics. General strike as a tactic only? That's actually exactly what they're being used for: a reformist tactic against unrelenting austerity.

I'd also disagree, based on what I know about the peak of May 68, and the direct aftermath of May 68, that the "state was there for the taking".

[Delenda Carthago]

I take all and any of your claims with extreme skepticism. Oh they're 5 now? It's funny how, even though you keep changing that number, you're always wrong. In case you forgot I have been to Athens, I have taken part in Xekinimas activities and I have to say, I was impressed by the work the comrades do. Particularly the base of support among immigrant worker's.
You do understand that "5" is just a figure of speech, dont you?I just exagerated to show you that Xekinima is in no place to judge whether is a time for a long lasting general strike. As a matter of fact they are many more than 5.

I mean in this photo from the last strike last week, I can see at least 30
people...

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-nVMr_-nhWJM/UJpNjovCu5I/AAAAAAAAB_U/Gex7i7zREEE/s1600/4.JPG

...but I kinda think 3 of them are just passing by.

I dont want to hurt your feelings, but the Base Organisation in my neibourghood only has more people than the whole Xekinima.

[Crux]

You mean to say the KKE has more members than Xekinima? I am shocked, shocked I say. That this is all you have to offer as a come back says quite a bit about you. "Figures of speech" indeed. Or perhaps empty, desperate, rhetoric. Not saying the KKE does no good, because that would be untrue, but there is obviously a bit of a clash between your revolutionary rhetoric and your actual politics.

To the rest: As for general strikes as the sole way forward, I don't think anyone is arguing that, the piece I posted certainly doesn't.

[Delenda Carthago]

Not saying the KKE does no good, because that would be untrue, but there is obviously a bit of a clash between your revolutionary rhetoric and your actual politics.


Actually there is a perfect dialectic relation between the words and actions of the party. KKE calls people to organise, resist and overthrow the capitalist system. One step at the time , with patience and reflects ready to act whenever its needed. Not sooner, not later. In this logic, it calls the class to organize in its organs, the syndicates(in Greece we have only a 20% workers membership in unions), and to climax the struggle. This is what a revolutionary serious party does. Serious revolutionary politics, with responsibility towards the class and history. Not juvenile over-revolutionary bs. In the meantime it bring victories in the workers struggles, when none else does. I wonder why this is...

The outcome of this? The class knows and trusts PAME. Αnd its demos look like this.

http://content-mcdn.ethnos.gr/filesystem/images/20120926/low/newego_LARGE_t_1101_54113412.JPG


What Xekinima does on the other hand is really the opposite. It proposes TODAY, with all these problems that the workers should go full frontal attack. Whether it is possible today, with this level of organization to achieve that, it dont really look like it bothers them. After all, nobody will ask for the bill of destruction afterwards. Their responsibility towards the class is NONE. All they care about is doing micropolitics. And after all that, what is their strategy? To bring SYRIZA to the goverment, as a "stage" on the road to revolution.So, thanks, but no thanks.

[Delenda Carthago]

And to break it down even more, its kinda annoying to see Xekinima *****ing about the 48hour strike, when I havent seen them do anything about it. What working places did they visited to convince the workers to strike? What working places they guarded at 6.30 in the morning so that the strike-breakers will not go to work?What else have they done but bureocratic work from their offices? Because as someone that did all that, I find it as a spit in the face to see someone downgrading what I did, while he did nothing.

[Crux]

And to break it down even more, its kinda annoying to see Xekinima *****ing about the 48hour strike, when I havent seen them do anything about it. What working places did they visited to convince the workers to strike? What working places they guarded at 6.30 in the morning so that the strike-breakers will not go to work?What else have they done but bureocratic work from their offices? Because as someone that did all that, I find it as a spit in the face to see someone downgrading what I did, while he did nothing.
Yes, it is plain to see you know nothing of what Xekinima do. Thanks for clearing that up once more.

The irony in your previous post is clear. So does the KKE walk the long slow road to "people's power", as I think your preferred slogan is, or is it rather that behind the sometimes radical slogans there is a fundamental lack of strategy and an ossified layer at the top terrified of the worker's moving on their own, hence the ultra-secterianism so often on display? I think this is plain even in your own words as well and we've seen it again and again in action.

[Delenda Carthago]

Lol, Xekinima calling KKE sectarianist.The 30 people organisation calls the 50.000 people a sect.:laugh:

Other than that, you answered nothing. If you think the line of Xekinima is so right, go ahead and propose it to the working class, oranise it, and embarrass us in front of its eyes. Up until then, you are nowhere and you consern noone. With your pityful litle announcements...:tt1:

[Delenda Carthago]

And since we on the SYRIZA matter, another PASOK transfer in the SYRIZA drafts. Michelogiannakis.

Lets see who he is, shall we?

"Μιχελογιαννάκης βουλευτής ΠΑΣΟΚ: Η σωτηρία της Ελλάδας, θέλει απόλυτη στήριξη απόψε στο Παπανδρέου. Η σωτηρία της δημοκρατικής παράταξης δεν θέλει εκβιασμούς, ισορροπίες . Υπάρχουν γνωστοί κύκλοι γνωστών συμφερόντων που εκβιάζουν στελέχη."



Translation: Michelogiannakis, PASOK MP: The salvation of Greece, needs total support today in Papandreou. The salvation of the democratic front(what they call center-left in Greece) doesnt need blackmails or balances. There are known circles that blackmail (PASOK) members.




Well done Xekinima, once again you support PASOK in your history. Only now its PASOK 2.0 .:laugh:

[agnixie]

Well done Xekinima, once again you support PASOK in your history. Only now its PASOK 2.0 .:laugh:

Considering the KKE sat in a government coalition with PASOK, I think you should probably shut up instead of looking even more like a ridiculous sectarian. Your affiliated union can't even enforce sufficient party discipline to keep that share of the vote.

[Crux]

And since we on the SYRIZA matter, another PASOK transfer in the SYRIZA drafts. Michelogiannakis.

Lets see who he is, shall we?

"Μιχελογιαννάκης βουλευτής ΠΑΣΟΚ: Η σωτηρία της Ελλάδας, θέλει απόλυτη στήριξη απόψε στο Παπανδρέου. Η σωτηρία της δημοκρατικής παράταξης δεν θέλει εκβιασμούς, ισορροπίες . Υπάρχουν γνωστοί κύκλοι γνωστών συμφερόντων που εκβιάζουν στελέχη."



Translation: Michelogiannakis, PASOK MP: The salvation of Greece, needs total support today in Papandreou. The salvation of the democratic front(what they call center-left in Greece) doesnt need blackmails or balances. There are known circles that blackmail (PASOK) members.




Well done Xekinima, once again you support PASOK in your history. Only now its PASOK 2.0 .:laugh:
And you're as dishonest, and most likely actively misinformed, as always.
So when will you start addressing you know real positions of Xekinima? I mean not those dreamed up by you. So up from 5 to 30 is it? Nope, you're still way off.

[Art Vandelay]

I'd also disagree, based on what I know about the peak of May 68, and the direct aftermath of May 68, that the "state was there for the taking".

Interesting, any reason in particular as to why?

Edit: Perhaps this isn't the place for the discussion.

[Delenda Carthago]

Considering the KKE sat in a government coalition with PASOK, I think you should probably shut up instead of looking even more like a ridiculous sectarian. Your affiliated union can't even enforce sufficient party discipline to keep that share of the vote.
First of all, fuck you before you tell me to shut up.

Secondly, I put you any bet you want to show me when this KKE-PASOK coalition happened. Lets put to the table our presence in the forum. I dare you.

[Rafiq]

The general strike, yes, the expression of a mediocre form of class consciousness, ending always in a failure, should the goal be the destruction of the class enemy. However, I'd hardly even consider the KKE had rejected these resolutions because they've sought a return to the pre war SPD model, and, like myself and so my comrades here on this site, seek to cleanse Marxism of the bakuninist filth which has plagued us for so long. I am not a conspiracy theorist, never, but if I were to find that Eurcommunist parties were actually organs of state repression, I would not be the slightest surprisesd. Though this is probably not hte case, as when they were controlled by the Soviet Union, they were told to, in the end, do their best to protect the dictatorship of the bourgeois class. Perhaps the Soviets feared a potential proletarian revolution spreading to their own doorsteps? What an awkward situation it would be, for an actual proletarian state to emerge west of the eastern bloc!

Anyway, if anything is to be done, it is to purge the Eurocommunist parties, as organs of false conciousness. These are almost the greatest of traitors to the revolution.