Stalinists and Hussein

[Scottish_Militant]

check out the comments on ISF (http://www.socialistfront.org/forum/index.php?act=ST&f=8&t=856)

And to think these guys have the nerve to call themselves Marxists :angry:

"This is a sad day for all the people in the world."

"Its disgusting and i wish saddam could escape this, but i don't see it happening. Just live on, Iraqi resistance, and fight on. I would like to see nothing done to saddam. I would like to see him set free.

I wish him the best of luck in these days, he has had to deal with several tragedies in short succession including the deaths of his own sons."

" My solidarity goes out to Saddam."

Talk about class colaboration, filthy pigs!

[Guest1]

Stalinists always seem to forgive and forget the very people who slaughter vocal communists and eliminate worker's rights. They wouldn't support Stalin if they did, remember? :D

[Saint-Just]

'I don't "support" Saddam Hussein, - I acknowledge he is not the best leader for Iraq. Yet nonetheless I support him over a US-installed government. I don't think Chavez is perfect for Venezuela either, yet any difference I have with Chavez is minascule compared to how much I oppose the opposition to Chavez. The point is that Trotskyites will never support anything unless it is 99.9% of their ideology. They always bicker about how evil Castro is and yet they want the embargo lifted and they want a normalization of relations between the US and Cuba. They condemn both nations. On the other hand, I weigh the two positions, and instead of denouncing both I chose a side (most of the time). In the case of Cuba, I chose Fidel Castro over US imperialism (although I don't support Fidel 100%). In the case of the USSR over capitalist restoration, I once again am not quick to denounce both, I weigh them and I align myself with the USSR. In the case of Saddam, it is difficult because Saddam is not all that better than a US-imposed government. In any case, I make concessions and I am an internationalist.' ~Comrade nateddi

El Brujo's comment: " My solidarity goes out to Saddam."
Was in this context: 'Meh, disgusting. Because of this, all the sheep over here are going to flock behind Dubya for the next election and the US will continue to spread it's imperialism. My solidarity goes out to Saddam.'

from politics forum:

"The Baath parties are not socialist in the Marxist-Leninist sense of the word so much as they are in the Scandavian sense. There where no soviets or "committies to defend the revolution" or large scale co-opts or collective farms in Iraq before the war, but the state provided for people's social welfare and they where protected from Neo-Liberalism.

Baathism is not Marxist socialism but it is a much more progressive and tolerant form of social-democracratic capitalism, so I would much prefer Saddam Hussien in Iraq than Paul Bremer."

By ISF member Vladimir:

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-9/406098/Saddam.jpg

Also, this is from a link on ISF:

Ex-President Hussein himself told US military interrogators that he had surfaced after hearing of the appointment of his long-time associate James Baker III to settle Iraq's debts. "Hey, my homeboy Jim owes me big time," Mr. Hussein stated. He asserted that Baker and the prior Bush regime, "owe me my back pay. After all I did for these guys you'd think they'd have the decency to pay up."

The Iraqi dictator then went on to list the "hits" he conducted on behalf of the Baker-Bush administrations, ending with the invasion of Kuwait in 1990, authorized by the former US secretary of state Baker.

http://www.gregpalast.com/detail.cfm?artid=303&row=0


The accusations are fairly simplistic and do not reflect the real attitude at ISF.

[Scottish_Militant]

Hussein was as good as a USA installed dictator wasnt he, remember him and Regan, and Rumsfelt, all great friends when he was slaughtering Iranian communists.

But yes, this was 'progressive' wasnt it.....

I really cannot beleive the ignorance and stupidity of these stalinites

"but the state provided for people's social welfare and they where protected from Neo-Liberalism."

For fuck sake, get a grip. Saddam Hussein protected nobody but himself, he was an imperialist dictator

I also object to this comment

"The point is that Trotskyites will never support anything unless it is 99.9% of their ideology."

This is not true, are you aware of my position on Castro or Chavez?

[Comrade Ceausescu]

How do you expect anyone to take anything you say remotly serious "communist_revolutionary"?Your a joke.You got banned on isf,and thats hard to do.

[Scottish_Militant]

Is it? All I did was stand up to loudmouth assholes like "comrade RAF" and his little friends, they didn't like it and I was banned. As you can see I can still access the forums, maybe i'll come back as Red_Saddam or Baath_Marxist

Yes, I'm sure the 'Marxist-Leninist-Husseinists' would welcome me with open arms :lol:

[cubist]

as far as i can see hang him high and dry mind you i am not that much of a fan of Stalin,


che717 are you on a wind up or summet i am going to get banned on isf as i noticed most on there are rejects from here

[Fidel Castro]

Stalinists always fail to surprise me, they are as communist as McDonalds

[LuZhiming]

Originally posted by [email protected] 25 2003, 09:57 AM
And to think these guys have the nerve to call themselves Marxists :angry:
Hmm, how does Stalinism have anything to do with Marxism?

[Chewillneverdie]

The Iraqi dictator then went on to list the "hits" he conducted on behalf of the Baker-Bush administrations, ending with the invasion of Kuwait in 1990, authorized by the former US secretary of state Baker.

Hes fucked, his only chance is blaming the US for everything,so hes taking that option, i hope he fuckin hangs.

[Looter]

Trotskyites are very keen to carry water for their Capitalist masters. History has proven Trotskyism leads nowhere.

[Comrade Ceausescu]

Trotskyites are very keen to carry water for their Capitalist masters. History has proven Trotskyism leads nowhere.
Exactly.Trot was the one who thought Hitler was better then Stalin.He justsucked up to the ruling class.

Hes fucked, his only chance is blaming the US for everything,so hes taking that option, i hope he fuckin hangs.

How stupid can you get?Simply,Saddam and his actions are not black and white.Simple as that.

[Kez]

Looter and Ceucescu, clear friends of the working class.

Is that why the Romanian people overthrew the fascist bastard Ceaucescu? And slaughtered the bastard? power to the people!

[Scottish_Militant]

Stalin "I propose a toast to Hitler, I know how much the German people love their Fuher"

Who loved him??

[El Brujo]

Originally posted by [email protected] 25 2003, 10:39 PM
Is it? All I did was stand up to loudmouth assholes like "comrade RAF" and his little friends, they didn't like it and I was banned.
Wrong, buddy. You were banned for being a troll. You even admitted (http://www.socialistfront.org/forum/index.php?act=ST&f=2&t=752&st=15&#entry11080) that you were only there to spam, so quit whining.

As for the Saddam Hussein issue, its been discussed a million times. Weather you support him or not, US imperialism is much more dangerous than he is, was and ever will be. I don't support him 100% but I most-certainly support him over US imperialism and I am unhappy about Saddam's capture because it is a propaghanda victory for the neo-cons (but, as someone who adheres to the roots of neo-conservatism, Im not surprised you would be happy).

[Soviet power supreme]

Stalinists always fail to surprise me, they are as communist as McDonalds


Hmm, how does Stalinism have anything to do with Marxism?

Now tell you tell me what Stalinism is then?Stalinism is first making socialism work properly in one country.

LuZhiming.Why you have Castro on avatar and then you come and talk something like this?Do you think that Castro is Anarchist/Trotskyite/Hippie?

[Sensitive]

/yawn

More Trot BS.

[Guest1]

relax with the trot shit.

as for saddam being a democratic socialist... that is the most bullshit I have heard in a long time. Ba'ath int he middle east is generally pretty organized, in terms of labour committees and the like. its roots lie in underground workers' and students' movements afterall. the only exception to this rule is Iraq, where the party was violently taken over, its leftist membership illiminated and a new leader installed by the CIA. The rest is a story of saddam slaughtering communists and religious leaders alike.

whether he's better for the people than the americans is irrelevant. we all stand against the war, but now the resistance is underway with or without saddam. celebrating saddam's capture can't hurt.

one: he was an enemy of workers in Iraq, whose unions were brutally smashed, along with skulls.

two: there are reports coming out of Iraq that most Iraqis, including Shi'ites and Kurds, had reservations about joining the resistance for one reason only - fear of saddam's return. GNN, a left wing independant news site, had a journalist whos spent a few months there recently. he stayed with a shi'ite family that was quite active in standing up to saddam a few times. the day they captured him, everyone was quite happy, but there was more to it than the obvious. they told him they had been waiting, cause they believed they needed to fight the americans, but couldn't.

anyways, I see no reason to stand with either here, stand with the resistance instead, fuck saddam. don't make the msitake that left-wing organizations made in world war I, standing with one bourgeois government or the other in a little game of their own, playing with the lives of hundreds of thousands of workers. stand with the workers instead.

[Urban Rubble]

First off, I'm no Trot, so you idiots that label anyone who disagrees with you a trot can eat dick.

I have argued this many times, I won't go too into it. I don't believe Saddam is a better choice than a U.S installed regime. I think they are both fucked. It's all speculation, but I find it hard to belive that life would be worse under the U.S than under Hussein.

Fuck it. I won't do it again. Either you get the U.S or you get a man who once worked with the U.S in gassing a large group of people rebelling against him (not to mention the whole slaying of communists thing). What a fucking choice.

[LuZhiming]

Originally posted by Soviet power [email protected] 26 2003, 11:48 PM
LuZhiming.Why you have Castro on avatar and then you come and talk something like this?Do you think that Castro is Anarchist/Trotskyite/Hippie?
1. Trotsky is a loser.
2. I don't like Stalin
3. Castro isn't an Anarchist, Trotskyite, or Hippie
4. Castro is not a Marxist either
5. I do like people that aren't Marxists
6. Castro is not a mass murderer like Stalin
7. Castro's economic and military policies are not brutal like Stalin's
8. Stalin is an imperialist
9. Castro isn't an imperialist
10. Stalin would have liked world domination
11. Castro has no ambitions toward world domination
12. Castro has liberated other countries
13. Stalin has not liberated other countries
14. Stalin has devastated other countries
15. Castro has not devastated other countries
16. My dislike of Stalin has nothing to with his failure to be a Marxist

[ComradeRed]

I don't support saddam; however, i defintely dont support the U$A! I agree, though, some stalinists support him.

[Saint-Just]

It is easy to call those who oppose Stalin as 'Trotskyists' because they have the same opinion of Stalin as Trotskyists; that he is a mass murdered, he ran a corrupt bureaucracy and so forth etc. Its not accurate, but to some extent Trotsky is a part of anti-Stalinism, he is part of the entire bourgeois illusion over history and socialism. I don't label all anti-Stalinists as Trotskyists because its inaccurate.

[Urban Rubble]

It is easy to call those who oppose Stalin as 'Trotskyists' because they have the same opinion of Stalin as Trotskyists; that he is a mass murdered, he ran a corrupt bureaucracy and so forth etc.

I hate the American government, so did Adolph Hitler. Does that make me a "Hitlerist" ?

These little Stalin worshiping kids love to call people "trots" because it is a cool new "insult" that they heard. They will tire of it soon, kids are very fickle.

[Invader Zim]

Originally posted by El Brujo+Dec 26 2003, 11:09 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (El Brujo @ Dec 26 2003, 11:09 PM)
[email protected] 25 2003, 10:39 PM
Is it? All I did was stand up to loudmouth assholes like "comrade RAF" and his little friends, they didn&#39;t like it and I was banned.
Wrong, buddy. You were banned for being a troll. You even admitted (http://www.socialistfront.org/forum/index.php?act=ST&f=2&t=752&st=15&#entry11080) that you were only there to spam, so quit whining.

[/b]
Blah blah blah, stalinist lies., I just read that link and if this post constitutes as an admission of guilt: -

I would if it wasn&#39;t for the comedy value of halfwits like Huzington, and generally most stalinites

then you dont have a clue what spam is. He&#39;s saying that he stays because he thinks that you idiots are amuzing. Personally I think he&#39;s wrong, as much of a joke I belive most stalinists to be, the joke wears thin.

Now bugger off to ISF goddamn idiot.

[El Brujo]

Originally posted by [email protected] 28 2003, 06:01 AM
Blah blah blah, stalinist lies., I just read that link and if this post constitutes as an admission of guilt: -

I would if it wasn&#39;t for the comedy value of halfwits like Huzington, and generally most stalinites

then you dont have a clue what spam is. He&#39;s saying that he stays because he thinks that you idiots are amuzing.

If he dosen&#39;t like ISF and is only there to fuck with us because we are "amusing," he is obviously not there to engage in serious debate, therefore, he is a spammer. It&#39;s as simple as that.


Personally I think he&#39;s wrong, as much of a joke I belive most stalinists to be, the joke wears thin.

Now bugger off to ISF goddamn idiot.

Harsh words for a pro-American, pro-Zionist, pro-British Empire cretine that calls himself a "communist." Fine, Ill leave you alone so you can go drug yourself up and cheer for your fellow neo-con&#39;s in their imperialist crusades in the Middle East.

[Guest1]

cretin...

big word for you, no wonder you misspelt it.

just kidding. but seriously, what does drugging himself up have anything to do with anything? yeah, I smoke weed, and drink alcohol.

if smoking weed ends up making you want to live communally in a peaceful society for all, without the oppression of capital, church or state... shouldn&#39;t we be encouraging it?

[Kez]

smoking weed shrinks ur brain and makes u lose short term memory, this i learnt after i bought 8th

[Soviet power supreme]

1. Trotsky is a loser.
2. I don&#39;t like Stalin
3. Castro isn&#39;t an Anarchist, Trotskyite, or Hippie
4. Castro is not a Marxist either
5. I do like people that aren&#39;t Marxists
6. Castro is not a mass murderer like Stalin
7. Castro&#39;s economic and military policies are not brutal like Stalin&#39;s
8. Stalin is an imperialist
9. Castro isn&#39;t an imperialist
10. Stalin would have liked world domination
11. Castro has no ambitions toward world domination
12. Castro has liberated other countries
13. Stalin has not liberated other countries
14. Stalin has devastated other countries
15. Castro has not devastated other countries
16. My dislike of Stalin has nothing to with his failure to be a Marxist

1.You got that right
2.explain
3.You got that too
4.Yes he is
6.Stalin did not murder anybody.He didnt hve such powers.
10.This is new to me
11Right again
12.What countries?
13.Well Eastern european countries.
16.What?Dont you like uncle Joe&#39;s moustaches then? :huh:

[cubist]

smoking weed shrinks your brain cuases huge short term memory loss,

so what it calms me down, brings me to a normal level which i enjoy being at,it makes the boring monotony of living in a shithole with nothing to do becuase everything requires money, it provides me with loadsa stoner hippy mates who like to sit around and talk about society and generally helps me have fun, to me the good outways the bad, asides everything has bad effects:

alcohol, sugar salt, fibre, mobile phones, computer screens, keyboards and mice, shampoo, certain trainers do more bad than good but are comfortable to wear, having a car, rubber, plastic, deoderant, fridges etc etc


cannabis helps cure MS and gloecoma,

[Kez]

so what?

[cubist]

yeah its a good song covered by metallica written by the anti noweher league i think

it goes so what so what so what so what you boring little **** but who cares,

[Kez]

hehe, i got it. bit mad

i think one of the lyrics goes "and ive sucked the balls of a old mans ****&#33; so waat, so wat so wat u boring little ****"

pretty mad

[LuZhiming]

2.explain

- His imperialistic control of Eastern European countries
- His attacks against kulaks
- His purges following the death of his lieutenant, Kirov
- His actions of stealing resources from Eastern Europe


4.Yes he is

Then how do you explain him not following Marxist policies in many of the things he does? I&#39;m not even going to go into depth here, you should read The Communist Manifesto before saying such things.


6.Stalin did not murder anybody.He didnt hve such powers.

Sure, all of those people just &#39;dissapeared&#39; I suppose.


10.This is new to me

He would have loved domination, he was an imperialist. There was no reason besides greed and imperialist ambition that lead to him holding on to Eastern Europe.


12.What countries?

Angola


13.Well Eastern european countries.

You seem to confuse liberation with devastation.


16.What?Dont you like uncle Joe&#39;s moustaches then? :huh:

I don&#39;t like murderous dictators.

[El Brujo]

Originally posted by Che y [email protected] 28 2003, 06:21 PM
if smoking weed ends up making you want to live communally in a peaceful society for all, without the oppression of capital, church or state... shouldn&#39;t we be encouraging it?
No because that is a form of escapism that discourages class struggle. By going off to live in a commune without working and getting stoned 24/7, you are simply running away from the problem instead of solving it. For that reason, as well as others, I see hippism as counter-revolutionary.

Apart from that, the "drugged up" thing was a personal insult not to be taken literally. Im actually all for MODERATE use of light drugs because it prevents abuse of them. I drink and smoke cigarettes and yes, I do occasionally smoke weed. I was a big-time stoner in high school and that did nothing for me except make me lazy and depressed under-achiever. Not revolutionary material at all.

[Guest1]

a) I wasn&#39;t talking about abusing drugs
b) I was talking communally as in, in a communist society, not as in running away. most stoners I know are determined not to be apathetic and leave this society, but rather to change it.
c) you don&#39;t know who your allies are

[acg4_9]

bla bla bla..... what are you saying? (i support, i don&#39;t support, i support 90%, 80%, not 100%, i hate, i attack, i don&#39;t like, i don&#39;t agree, i agree, stalin is good, stalin is bad, saddam is good, bad, hero, CIA agent, castro is bad, castro is nice, i love him, i hate him) fuck you all, all you do is ciritisize this and support that by what, talking? fighting about things that happened ages ago and was discussed for ages with no solution. who cares about whom you support or not when all you do is sit down on your comfortable chairs and talk. do something useful and if your doing something useful advice others and show them the way not attack them you think emperialists give a shet about what we&#39;re saying they are laughing now at us because they know that we havn&#39;t changed. do you know why the emperialists are winning? they work more than talk they unite more than saperate but us, all we do is talk and fight : i am a stalinist i am trotskist i am a bull shet. wake up and wake us with you we are fed up of losing. now stalin castro saddam trotski ....etc are bad&#33; and we&#39;re critisizing them&#33;&#33;... who are we? what did we do? say whatever you want about them, but know that they are better than us cause they tried they said no to the U.S they faught until they died or captured or killed on the other hand we sit down and cheer these and attack those we&#39;re no more than cheerleaders you think that the freedom fighters in iraq palestine colombia peru spain italy africa south asia and others are happy about your support does your support feed there families does your fuckin support give them weapons does your support cure there illness.
che guevara, thank god you died cause if you were alive you&#39;ll die from saddness and you&#39;ll say : NOW I AM DEFEATED.

god bless our freedom fighters
viva palestine viva iraq

[LuZhiming]

Originally posted by [email protected] 29 2003, 10:02 PM
bla bla bla..... what are you saying? (i support, i don&#39;t support, i support 90%, 80%, not 100%, i hate, i attack, i don&#39;t like, i don&#39;t agree, i agree, stalin is good, stalin is bad, saddam is good, bad, hero, CIA agent, castro is bad, castro is nice, i love him, i hate him) fuck you all, all you do is ciritisize this and support that by what, talking? fighting about things that happened ages ago and was discussed for ages with no solution. who cares about whom you support or not when all you do is sit down on your comfortable chairs and talk. do something useful and if your doing something useful advice others and show them the way not attack them you think emperialists give a shet about what we&#39;re saying they are laughing now at us because they know that we havn&#39;t changed. do you know why the emperialists are winning? they work more than talk they unite more than saperate but us, all we do is talk and fight : i am a stalinist i am trotskist i am a bull shet. wake up and wake us with you we are fed up of losing. now stalin castro saddam trotski ....etc are bad&#33; and we&#39;re critisizing them&#33;&#33;... who are we? what did we do? say whatever you want about them, but know that they are better than us cause they tried they said no to the U.S they faught until they died or captured or killed on the other hand we sit down and cheer these and attack those we&#39;re no more than cheerleaders you think that the freedom fighters in iraq palestine colombia peru spain italy africa south asia and others are happy about your support does your support feed there families does your fuckin support give them weapons does your support cure there illness.
che guevara, thank god you died cause if you were alive you&#39;ll die from saddness and you&#39;ll say : NOW I AM DEFEATED.

god bless our freedom fighters
viva palestine viva iraq
Sorry, but I don&#39;t dedicate my life to "destroying imperialist pigs" or whatever other bedtime story you obsess over. Frankly, most rulers would likely be imperialists if they had the chance, and it&#39;s the exceptions that are spectacular people, and usually end up overthrown. Discussion is often much more significant and reasonable then some hopeless quest such as the one you seem to be proposing. Your point that Castro or Stalin or whoever are better because they fought against imperialism is lunacy and irrational. A person can be against imperialism and be completely ruthless while caring about few individuals. Stalin is an imperialist, his crimes aren&#39;t much different than the U.S. Presidents or the British Prime Minister&#39;s. Without discussion, the whole supposed "battle" (If there even would be one.) is completely irrational.

Although the arguements on drug abuse are amusingly ridicolous.

[Guerilla22]

Make no mistake about it Saddam definitely oppressed his people and engaged in acts of torture and murder, the only thinh is the US government didn&#39;t give a fuck just so long as he was doing their bidding, which is classic US foreign policy.

It&#39;s about time the US government shifted away from policies of suppoerting dictators, who oppress their people for the sake of its "national interest." I think Saddam should definitely be brought to trial, however it&#39;s absolute bullshit that the US government is going to stand there and act like the moral authority, who brought Sadddam to face justice.

I think that if Saddam goes to trial for crimes against humanity, then all those in the White House (Reagan) at the time, who supported him should go to trial to.

[Enver Hoxha]

With all due respect this thread is the biggest load of rubbish I&#39;ve seen in a long time.

Tell me have any of you read up the position of numerous &#39;Stalinist&#39; party&#39;s in regard to Saddam Huissein? From this I very much doubt it, instead you&#39;ve taken a few quotes from two or three people on a message board and even then it seems you&#39;ve taken it out of context. No one claims to &#39;love&#39; Saddam.

I&#39;ve argued against support of Saddam before and will do so again. Every time I do this I point out the history, and that is that Saddam murdered thousands of Iraqi &#39;Stalinists&#39; with CIA supplied lists.

Saddam Huissein was among other things a Capitalist running a Capitalist state, that&#39;s why we dont support him. Stalin has nothing to do with Saddam. Infact I often wonder why Saddam is still bought up. He has nothing to do with the current Iraqi resistance (how a man living in a hut who hasn&#39;t shaved for five months is running it I dont know) which whatever it&#39;s ideology deserves full support in driving out Imperialism from it&#39;s country. I do know that many Iraqi Communists are taking part in it though, a group called the Iraqi Partriotic Alliance was formed in the months before the war. This is a coalition of various anti-Saddam factions who decided that the real enemy of the Iraqi people was foriegn Imperialism. Many other leftist groups are involved.

So stop your slandering and lies of Uncle Joe, forget about Saddam, stop repeating Imperialist propaganda and get on with the real job of helping the resistance in Iraq against foriegn and illegal occupation.