Civil war looming in Greece?

[hetz]

A question to Greek comrades: do you think that a civil-war type situation is looming in Greece?

Nasty things are going on in the country.

[The Cheshire Cat]

There is certainly a civil war situation 'looming', but we can only guess wether one will take place. But certainly something is going to happen... The fascist grip on the state tightens every day. The pigs are already loyal to the fascists in many places. I don't know about the army, but they are probably with the pigs, as usual. These two organs of the state are the base for the state's authority, and it has been proven in history numerous times that they are powerful enough to discard the rest of the state and take power. As long as there is too little left resistance, that is. Like in Italy and Germany, and modern day Greece. So without interference of the left, Greece will turn into hell in the coming years. That is why I pledge for the reforming of the International Brigades (there is a user group about that)...

What I also wonder, let's say it gets to a civil war (which I deem likely), is there a chance of us winning it? I suppose the strong fascist movement of Eastern Europe will join their 'brothers', what will we do? And more importantly, what will NATO do...

If the situation remains unchanged, I suspect NATO will label both us and the fascists as radical terrorist groups, and they will aid the current Greek state. But what if either the fascists or we succeed in getting a vast popular support amongst the Greeks? NATO will not slaughter all Greeks... Right?

[ВАЛТЕР]

I'd like to know what the Greek comrades have to say. How is the atmosphere in Greece? Is it tense? Is there any talk of a possible conflict? I'm worried that we are not getting just how serious the situation in Greece really is from the media and would like to know how the general population feels.

[Jimmie Higgins]

do you think that a civil-war type situation is looming in Greece?Between what forces in society?

[hetz]

Between what forces in society?
I don't really know, revolutionary and counter-revolutionary ones, democratic and pro-fascist ones?

[The Cheshire Cat]

I think there would be mainly fascist forces and Left forces, like the Spanish Civil War. But this time, there is a NATO and a EU that has interests in Greece, that has an alliance with them... If the Left Forces would win in Greece, the EU would certainly see 'it's' money never again... no way the debts will be paid. If Greece falls in facist hands, they might be able to work something out. At this point, GD presents itself as anti-capitalist, but that is mainly to get more popularity ofcourse.

So I think NATO and EU have more interests in a fascist Greece than a left wing one, and they have an excuse to interfere ofcourse, since Greece is part of the EU. The fascists consist of many cops and they have many seats in the government. So I guess NATO could present the GD in some way as the popular choice of Greece and as part of the government. So in case of a civil war between left and fascist, NATO would just say there is a left wing coup going on against the Greek government, and they could easily interfere to 'save the Greek state'.

Or something like that... I wanted to say something but I forgot.

[Delenda Carthago]

Not yet. Maybe in some months, but in between there will be many episodes.

[Ostrinski]

People probably don't want war. I imagine that some stability and security are in order, not fucking war.

[The Cheshire Cat]

People probably don't want war. I imagine that some stability and security are in order, not fucking war.

Ofcourse most of the people don't want war, but it are never most of the people that start a war. If things are as bad as they look sometimes, things might get out of control. Delenda Carthago from Greece said there might be a war in some months.

[Delenda Carthago]

Ofcourse most of the people don't want war, but it are never most of the people that start a war. If things are as bad as they look sometimes, things might get out of control. Delenda Carthago from Greece said there might be a war in some months.
The keyword is "MAYBE". For now I eat my souvlaki, and chill on the internet. Tommorow and the day after we have a general strike and shit dont just happen.:cool:

[The Cheshire Cat]

The keyword is "MAYBE". For now I eat my souvlaki, and chill on the internet. Tommorow and the day after we have a general strike and shit dont just happen.:cool:

I understand. But things like revolutions often happen unexpected! So like you said... maybe.

[Jimmie Higgins]

I don't really know, revolutionary and counter-revolutionary ones, democratic and pro-fascist ones?Yeah I don't think either side would be organized enough for a conflict that would be described as a civil war.

Italy had industrial areas that had been controlled briefly by workers before the fascists came to power. Germany had a series of attempted revolutions, massive polarization on the streets, and strikes and uprizings of armed workers before fascism came to power.

Conflicts between political factions wouldn't really be considered civil war - I think for something we might call a civil war, the factions would have to be combined with or leading sections of society in a bid for power. So I think a civil war between left/working class and the fascists/middle class allied with the ruling class (I guess) we'd really need to see Greece in a Revolutionary situation where workers consist of a self-led and self-identified power in society who want to run it. That would be one side and then the counter-revolutionaries would consitiute the other side. So it would really be a revolution/civil war IMO.

There can still be a major threat of fascism without workers trying to take power. If the crisis continues and there is continued protest and strikes against austerity and "order" and the government seems unable to contain it, the ruling class might invite the fascists in (like what the police have already been doing on a local level) or the fascists might even just have a stright-out coup to "restore order".