Life is amazing

[Tim Cornelis]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kf5FvUt7iIw

Isn't life amazing? Life, consciousness. Peculiar isn't it? That we are consciouses of our own existence. Just reverberate that in your mind for a second. It's absurd really that dead matter, star dust!, became consciouses of its own existence. What an amazing ability, what an amazing development! Consciousness. It's amazing in the literal sense of the word, not hyperbolic. It's beyond my comprehension.

Life is so amazing, I can't even articulate how amazing it is.

What are the odds that you are alive right now?

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Just imagine, your ancestors survived innumerable wars, genocides, diseases, plagues, mass starvation, long enough to deliver offspring. From star dust to other matter, from death matter, to singular cells. From thereon out your ancestors survived every-thing! . In my case World War I and II, Dutch imperialist war in Indonesia, Black Plague, you name it. That one time my great, great, etc. grandfather was stroking his tip back in 1174, and was interrupted last minute, made me exist. What are the odds?
Had your father jacked off one more time when he was 16, you wouldn't exist right now. What a privilege, existence! There was a time when you didn't exist as a conscious being. We were gas clouds once, we were star dust once, the matter of which you exist might have been a plant or animal until it was converted to sperm or an egg when it entered into your mother's or father's body.

"Life is a short period between two eternities." Time. Is that even more than molecules moving through space? The idea that people were conscious when I didn't even exist is amazing to me, it also saddens me. Their consciousness eradicated from the universe. The time in which we are alive is negligible. This has sparked a linger existential crisis for me, but it doesn't matter. It is incredibly sad that the little time we have on this blessed earth is sometimes cut short. Their consciousness wiped out, their hopes, dreams, feelings, memories evaporated just like that.

When you are able to live comfortably, every moment is a privilege. The chances of you existing as the conscious being of you are, are nihil. Life is amazing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TrWNTqbLFFE

I'm not even high, I just had a nice dessert.

[helot]

Yeah it's alright. I'd have preferred being born a century later though.

[Robespierres Neck]

Rather be red than dead.

[Q]

I'm not even high, I just had a nice dessert.

Space cake?

[Tim Cornelis]

Yeah it's alright. I'd have preferred being born a century later though.

But that's the amazing thing, that couldn't have happened. Your consciousness is unique to your body, which stems from the genes of your unique parents. It's amazing.

[Q]

But that's the amazing thing, that couldn't have happened. Your consciousness is unique to your body, which stems from the genes of your unique parents. It's amazing.

So, that brings me to a philosophical question.

Quite a few sci-fi works have this idea of immortality. In Pandora's Star (http://www.amazon.com/Pandoras-Star-Peter-F-Hamilton/dp/0345479211/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1352071591&sr=8-1&keywords=pandora%27s+star+hamilton) there is the conception of people walking around with chips in their head that keep a live sync with how their brains are wired. Normally these chips are not used, as people just "rejuvinate" every 50 or so years. But if they happen to get killed, these chips can be used to have the memory downloaded to a clone body.

Is this still "you" though? Even weirder: What if not one but several clones were made of you and they had this memory downloaded into them. Who is "you", if any?

What defines you as "you"?

[Ele'ill]

"Life is a short period between two eternities."


there is no eternity

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

I've often had thoughts along these lines. But what really gets me are those who can't quite seem to credit the concept that inanimate matter can, through a series of entirely naturalistic and wholly material processes, develop the properties of intelligent self-awareness.

Instead, they insist on tacking on Gods and souls and all sorts of other mystical crap, without any good evidence. This is completely forgivable if one lives in a time or place without any decent scientific knowledge and education, but otherwise is a source of exasperated bafflement on my part.

The desire to have the universe conform to one's model of it (as opposed to deriving one's models from observations of the universe) does not necessarily have to involve supernaturalism, of course. The kind of grand, all-encompassing models promoted by various cranks (e.g. plasma cosmology), which purport to explain the workings of the entire universe through the lens of a handful of concepts which the promoter typically obsesses over, is a secular example of what I mean.

[Yuppie Grinder]

Life right now is meh. Would prefer more adventure.

[Let's Get Free]

Life is the longest, most painful way to die.

[Yuppie Grinder]

Life is the longest, most painful way to die.

"Everyday we die a little more."

[GPDP]

Yes, yes he is.

http://gyazo.com/fe9af8263ea1bbda3704d42138e34bbc.png

[Ele'ill]

how strange it is to be anything at all

[Rugged Collectivist]

So, that brings me to a philosophical question.

Quite a few sci-fi works have this idea of immortality. In Pandora's Star (http://www.amazon.com/Pandoras-Star-Peter-F-Hamilton/dp/0345479211/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1352071591&sr=8-1&keywords=pandora%27s+star+hamilton) there is the conception of people walking around with chips in their head that keep a live sync with how their brains are wired. Normally these chips are not used, as people just "rejuvinate" every 50 or so years. But if they happen to get killed, these chips can be used to have the memory downloaded to a clone body.

Is this still "you" though? Even weirder: What if not one but several clones were made of you and they had this memory downloaded into them. Who is "you", if any?

What defines you as "you"?

I'm going to say no. It would be a copy of you, but the actual "you", meaning your consciousness would cease to exist.

[Q]

I'm going to say no. It would be a copy of you, but the actual "you", meaning your consciousness would cease to exist.

But what then defines "your" consciousness?

[Lynx]

Rosa L would go supernova if she read this thread.

[bad ideas actualised by alcohol]

You live, you die.
Nothing you do has any significance.
Where does the amazing part kick in?

[Jimmie Higgins]

I'm going to say no. It would be a copy of you, but the actual "you", meaning your consciousness would cease to exist.But the new you wouldn't know the difference - the bastard.

[helot]

But that's the amazing thing, that couldn't have happened. Your consciousness is unique to your body, which stems from the genes of your unique parents. It's amazing.

Yeah which is a shame, really. I'd imagine 2100s would be a crazy century.

[Rugged Collectivist]

But what then defines "your" consciousness?

I'm starting to believe the idea that your consciousness is inseparable from the brain. Therefor, the goal should be to preserve the brain, not transfer data from it.

The problem I have is that copying the data would mean there are now two yous. Since you can't share your consciousness with a separate mind, the copy couldn't be you. It would cease to be "you" once it had independent experiences, meaning within the first few seconds of it's existence.

[Jimmie Higgins]

Ok, my question is: if humans are able to create artificial intelligence or some synthesis which would involve uploading organic "selfs" into a ai type structure - and these new forms of intelligence actually do make biological inteligence seem quaint and constrained - would it be a bad thing if we died out and the ai we created (which would then contain the records of humanity) be a bad thing?

[Rugged Collectivist]

Ok, my question is: if humans are able to create artificial intelligence or some synthesis which would involve uploading organic "selfs" into a ai type structure - and these new forms of intelligence actually do make biological inteligence seem quaint and constrained - would it be a bad thing if we died out and the ai we created (which would then contain the records of humanity) be a bad thing?

No, I don't think so. As long as we died out peacefully. I don't really see any reason to "preserve" humanity. Obviously we should preserve individual human lives, if they want to live, but I don't see anything special about the species. If humans stop reproducing and the last of them become digital intelligences, so be it. As long as it happens voluntarily.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

Ok, my question is: if humans are able to create artificial intelligence or some synthesis which would involve uploading organic "selfs" into a ai type structure - and these new forms of intelligence actually do make biological inteligence seem quaint and constrained - would it be a bad thing if we died out and the ai we created (which would then contain the records of humanity) be a bad thing?

I think it would be. The world would be a duller place without baseline humans, even if no baseline human could ever be as strong, intelligent or creative as Homo Superior, super-robots, or Godstars (http://www.orionsarm.com/eg-article/462d9a409a10b).

I mean, if we can create beings better than we are, then surely we, or our creations, or both us and our creations in concert, can work towards creating a universe that is at least more friendly to baseline human intelligence than it is now?

Of course, I might be biased, speaking as a baseline human. But as far as I am concerned there is plenty of space in the universe to contain both Gods and mortals, even if it turns out the latter comes before the former.

[the last donut of the night]

and to think some weirdos online still spend their precious time talking about revolution

[Art Vandelay]

life sucks yo..

[Let's Get Free]

The real world is cruel and unforgiving. If we ever stopped to look at the present from a purely objective point of view, we would despair. Fortunately, we develop the habit of dreaming early on. In this mental world we inhabit, the future is full of rosy possibilities. The culture stimulates these fantasies with constant images and stories of marvelous occurrences and happy moments. The problem is, these images and fantasies exist only in our mind and on screen. They aren't really enough. We crave the real thing.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

life sucks yo..

I strongly disagree. There may be a lot of things within life that suck, but have you considered the alternative? If life sucks then why are you still bothering to stay alive?


The real world is cruel and unforgiving. If we ever stopped to look at the present from a purely objective point of view, we would despair.

I don't think there is such a thing as an "objective point of view", since a viewpoint is something that by definition involves subjectivity.

I think that if you don't like the way things are at present, then you would have hated the past even more. As for the future, I suspect that even if things become better in an objectively measurable fashion, you would still find excuses to be a misery-guts.


Fortunately, we develop the habit of dreaming early on. In this mental world we inhabit, the future is full of rosy possibilities. The culture stimulates these fantasies with constant images and stories of marvelous occurrences and happy moments. The problem is, these images and fantasies exist only in our mind and on screen. They aren't really enough. We crave the real thing.

Which is why progress never happens. Oh wait.

Seriously, how do people like you get out of bed in the morning?

[Questionable]

You know, I was reading Economic and Philosophic Manuscripts of 1844, and in the section "Private Property and Communism" Marx says something along the lines that we are society's experience of itself.

Which makes so much fucking sense if you think about it. Everything that we are is the result of our material being in society. Placed in a totally different society we would be totally different individuals because we would inherit that society's superstructure, its base material existence, its contradictions.

[Art Vandelay]

I strongly disagree. There may be a lot of things within life that suck, but have you considered the alternative? If life sucks then why are you still bothering to stay alive?

I don't know, cause I haven't really gotten around to ending it yet; a lack of consciousness, however, would simply be like a peaceful, permanent, nap.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

I don't know, cause I haven't really gotten around to ending it yet; a lack of consciousness, however, would simply be like a peaceful, permanent, nap.

The way I see it, while being dead means one misses out on all the crap, it also means one misses out on the good stuff. It strikes me that the thing to do in life is to minimise the former while maximising the latter. Who knows, one might end up improving things not just for oneself, but for others as well.

I don't understand how sinking into a pit of despair serves to improve anything. It seems to me that going down that route is inherently disempowering - after all, if one accepts the notion that the whole world is fucked and doomed, then why would one bother doing anything positive?

[Art Vandelay]

The way I see it, while being dead means one misses out on all the crap, it also means one misses out on the good stuff. It strikes me that the thing to do in life is to minimise the former while maximising the latter. Who knows, one might end up improving things not just for oneself, but for others as well.

I don't understand how sinking into a pit of despair serves to improve anything. It seems to me that going down that route is inherently disempowering - after all, if one accepts the notion that the whole world is fucked and doomed, then why would one bother doing anything positive?

Well I don`t think that the world is completely doomed, but in actuality it`s exactly what you say we should be doing that has disenchanted me. Going out and attempting to make the world a better place, simply reaffirms that the majority of people in my part of the world (the only place I really have any chance of making a difference) are reactionary fuckwits; it can be extremely disheartening. On top of this, there is also the fact, that in the grand scheme of things, I (or any individual one man) am pretty much useless. Combine this with depression and ending your life starts to seem like a decent alternative, to having to deal with this twisted world.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

Well I don`t think that the world is completely doomed, but in actuality it`s exactly what you say we should be doing that has disenchanted me. Going out and attempting to make the world a better place, simply reaffirms that the majority of people in my part of the world (the only place I really have any chance of making a difference) are reactionary fuckwits; it can be extremely disheartening.

Well, giving up and collapsing into a miserable heap isn't going to fix anything. Even if one can't or won't do anything more than publicly complain about the bullshit that happens in life, that would still be better. At least by kvetching loudly, one lets the world outside one's head know that at least one person is dissatisfied with life or some aspect of it.


On top of this, there is also the fact, that in the grand scheme of things, I (or any individual one man) am pretty much useless.

I don't think any single individual should be expected to work miracles. I think that life can be improved, even if only by the smallest quanta, by being kind, polite and just generally making the attempt to be a decent human being.


Combine this with depression and ending your life starts to seem like a decent alternative, to having to deal with this twisted world.

Thing is, I don't get the impression that most people who think "life mostly/totally sucks" are suffering from depression, which I understand to be an illness rather than a worldview. Although I'm guessing that people with depression will more likely than not hold such worldviews, due to the nature of the malady.

Considerations of mental health aside, I just don't understand at all how a worldview based wholly or partly on nihilistic misanthropy can be remotely attractive, apart from possibly gaining some sense of perverse satisfaction from having that worldview "confirmed" by bad news.

Speaking of news, I can't help but think that the mainstream media contributes to the "mean world" syndrome (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mean_world_syndrome), because tragedy and horror from across the world sells papers and garners viewers. Thanks to modern technology and a socioeconomic system that extensively uses fear and alienation to further itself, the terrible aspects of the world can be beamed straight into one's eyes in High-Definition. This results in absurd situations where fear of crime increases while actual occurrances of crime decrease.