Greek Fascists

[Workers-Control-Over-Prod]

Communists, we'll make soap of you! Slogan said openly in Greece by the Fascists.


60% of Greek Police voted for Golden Dawn. The Fascists do not need to become the second or first strongest party in Greece anymore, they are beginning to control the majority of the existing Greek Capitalist state. Civil War is inevitable at this stage. If there is civil War/"failed state" in a NATO state, NATO army invades.

With the increasing sanctions against Iran and increasing threats on bombing/invasion by Western Imperialism, if there is a War with Iran, then the Strait of Hormuz through which over 30% of the world's oil travels, will be closed and a global economic collapse will occur, and NATO would have to mobilize most of its forces to Iran.
Since a war with Iran is very likely as Iran is being destroyed by the harshest sanctions since WW2, a proxy-war of China-Russia against the Western Imperialist countries (an inter-imperialist war) would be a highly probable outcome.

A possible, hypothetical situation in the future like this would mean that all efforts should be made to 'turn Imperialist war into Civil War', and efforts should be concentrated depending on where the struggle is the most advanced, which is Greece.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W7Jf21kR-3o


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Od55SBFKh9g

[helot]

I'm not sure about the possibility of a proxy war you mentioned but with regards to Greece it does seem to me that it will eventually erupt into civil war.

[Jesus Saves Gretzky Scores]

Communist scented soap? Mmmmmmmmmm............

[Workers-Control-Over-Prod]

I'm not sure about the possibility of a proxy war you mentioned but with regards to Greece it does seem to me that it will eventually erupt into civil war.

Well, i just finished reading Michael Lüder's book "Iran: the wrong War; how the west gambles away its future". If a war breaks out with Iran it will dominate this century as the First World War dominated the 20th, so the author says.

[Os Cangaceiros]

Since a war with Iran is very likely as Iran is being destroyed by the harshest sanctions since WW2

If Iran is being broken by sanctions, wouldn't that mean war is less likely, as Iran will capitulate?

Invading Iran seems...unlikely. Bombing Iran might be on the table, though.

[helot]

Well, i just finished reading Michael Lüder's book "Iran: the wrong War; how the west gambles away its future". If a war breaks out with Iran it will dominate this century as the First World War dominated the 20th, so the author says.

I've not read that, i may have to take a peek.

Oh i agree that if war did break out with Iran it will dominate the century like the first world war. It'll probably be the bloodiest conflict of the century.

[Workers-Control-Over-Prod]

If Iran is being broken by sanctions, wouldn't that mean war is less likely, as Iran will capitulate?

Invading Iran seems...unlikely. Bombing Iran might be on the table, though.

Oh yeah, i'm sure that the Theocratic Iranian leaders will say "Well, that's it, now we have been sanctioned, some of our atomic bomb plants have been bombed and we have to give up!"... :sleep:

No, we already know what will happen. Now the people of Iran will continue to be squeezed by economic sanctions, hundreds of thousands will die like in the US sanctions on Iraq, and the reactionaries in Iran will gain strength from the Imperialist aggression. If Iran is bombed it will most likely (and definitely if it is invaded, which an invasion would be necessary to overthrow the Iranian government) close the Strait of Hormuz with its capable Navy, through which over 30% of the world's oil passes through. That means global economic collapse.

It seems quite inevitable the way things are developing now, that Iran will close the Strait of Hormuz. If China and Russia continue not giving in to western Imperialist sanctions, and if war breaks out, then it will be like in Syria now, a Proxy War, but on a much larger scale.

[Os Cangaceiros]

Oh yeah, i'm sure that the Theocratic Iranian leaders will say "Well, that's it, now we have been sanctioned, some of our atomic bomb plants have been bombed and we have to give up!"... :sleep:

No, I meant that internal forces within Iran will force the mullahs out of power if the situation gets bad enough.

[Geiseric]

I believe the imperialists are smart enough to work out a few more years maybe a decade before world war 3. However the prolonged epoch of imperialism won't survve the century if we do our jobs right and use historical knowlege to guide our efforts. Were the same generation, which means its the world youths duty to bring around socialism and crush the bourgeois state.

[svenne]

Well, i just finished reading Michael Lüder's book "Iran: the wrong War; how the west gambles away its future". If a war breaks out with Iran it will dominate this century as the First World War dominated the 20th, so the author says.

Well, authors has been wrong before. You also seem to overestimate the Iranian navys ability to wage war. The US is pretty much gonna kick it's ass, by being a lot bigger, and a lot more advanced. The only thing that might be a problem in case of a US/Israeli intervention is the Iranian anti air, which is pretty new and good russian stuff, and a lot better than the systems the iraqis or the afghanis had. However, in the end, Iran is a lot bigger and populated than both Iraq and Afghanistan combined. An occupation is propably (and hopefully) not gonna happen, because it would be both extremely expensive, and extremely costly in american lives (we all know that nobody cares if a couple of million iranian citizens die...). And on top of that, it would spiral the whole middle east into a clusterfuck of epic proportions.

[Ethics Gradient, Traitor For All Ages]

The American military seems to fall for it's own propaganda when it comes to it's technology vs. numbers, so I don't know if the size or population of Iran would be enough to make them reconsider an occupation. Not with all the urban warfare toys they've dreamt up in the past decade. Obviously it wouldn't be enough to actually contain the population of Iran, but if they don't stand by their products this year, they may not get funding for new stuff next year.

[Raúl Duke]

The Iran ideas are interesting but

isn't this supposed to be a thread about Greek fascists...?

[svenne]

The American military seems to fall for it's own propaganda when it comes to it's technology vs. numbers, so I don't know if the size or population of Iran would be enough to make them reconsider an occupation. Not with all the urban warfare toys they've dreamt up in the past decade. Obviously it wouldn't be enough to actually contain the population of Iran, but if they don't stand by their products this year, they may not get funding for new stuff next year.

It's a dangerous thing to underestimate ones opponents, which is valid for both the american army and revolutionary leftists. I'd guess an intervention in Syria is a lot more likely. However, i think we went a bit off topic now...

[Workers-Control-Over-Prod]

Well, authors has been wrong before. You also seem to overestimate the Iranian navys ability to wage war. The US is pretty much gonna kick it's ass, by being a lot bigger, and a lot more advanced. The only thing that might be a problem in case of a US/Israeli intervention is the Iranian anti air, which is pretty new and good russian stuff, and a lot better than the systems the iraqis or the afghanis had. However, in the end, Iran is a lot bigger and populated than both Iraq and Afghanistan combined. An occupation is propably (and hopefully) not gonna happen, because it would be both extremely expensive, and extremely costly in american lives (we all know that nobody cares if a couple of million iranian citizens die...). And on top of that, it would spiral the whole middle east into a clusterfuck of epic proportions.

Who said "wage war"? I said the Iranian navy is more than capable to close the Strait of Hormuz! If it is blockaded for a few hours, all hell breaks loose on the global stock markets and it means NATO war against Iran, which would with high probability lead to China and Russia seeing the possibility of NATO defeat and seize the opportunity to become Imperialist hegemons themselves.

To what extent that the Iranian Military is capable of war i do not know, but it just opened its fifth Persian Gulf base and is more than capable to close off the Strait of Hormuz (http://samsonblinded.org/news/wp-content/uploads/HLIC/34641a986c3c07ed307c14a5e51d02c2.jpg) for quite a while (through which, repeat, over 30% of the world's oil travels). When that happens, pressures will build on governments everywhere and a huge war of many actors is not unlikely.

[Workers-Control-Over-Prod]

The Iran ideas are interesting but

isn't this supposed to be a thread about Greek fascists...?

Yes, it is more precisely a post of two highly informative videos about the Greek situation and a discussion about a future scenario. That is why one has to include the huge possibility of a bombing of Iran and the closing of Hormuz into the equation. If the Strait of Hormuz is closed, then there is a double factor that would affect a struggle in Greece: 1) a further global economic collapse (bringing a possible Euro collapse, EU decay, failed states in Europe as we are beginning to see in Greece) and 2) Western State/Imperialist armed Forces would be concentrated in Iran, fighting for the continued hegemony of western Capital.

This is a likely scenario until 2015, unless there are drastic political changes in Europe of course.

We should be aware of the global conditions in which confrontations take place.

[cynicles]

The Iran ideas are interesting but

isn't this supposed to be a thread about Greek fascists...?
"Persian dogs!"
-Greek Fascist