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Ostrinski
30th October 2012, 04:52
Does anybody have any suggestions for this period in European and American history?

Tamerlane
30th October 2012, 07:55
Now, this isn't quite what you asked for - as in, it's fiction, not historical non-fiction - but Voltaire's Candide, if you haven't read it, is a great little book. It's slim, witty, and takes the piss out of ideologues and fanatics of all persuasions.

Voltaire ridicules religion, theologians, governments, armies, philosophies, and philosophers through allegory; most conspicuously, he assaults Leibniz and his optimism.

As expected by Voltaire, Candide has enjoyed both great success and great scandal. Immediately after its secretive publication, the book was widely banned because it contained religious blasphemy, political sedition and intellectual hostility hidden under a thin veil of naïveté. However, with its sharp wit and insightful portrayal of the human condition, the novel has since inspired many later authors and artists to mimic and adapt it.

It's freely available online, and reads quickly - I finished it in a day or so.
Good luck with finding what you're looking for!

Ostrinski
31st October 2012, 04:25
Yeah I read it

Invader Zim
31st October 2012, 12:22
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=z6C9zlVo7cAC&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false

l'Enfermé
31st October 2012, 13:32
http://classiclit.about.com/od/enlightenment/tp/aatp_enlighten.htm

Jimmie Higgins
31st October 2012, 14:44
Does anybody have any suggestions for this period in European and American history?Is there a specific aspect you are interested in?

Vladimir Innit Lenin
31st October 2012, 21:49
I think the more important question is:

what is it about the enlightenment that you view as interesting from a Marxist sense?

I don't really have much sympathy with it. As far as i've read, a lot of stuff about the enlightenment, in terms of philosophical stuff, is cultural superiority and moral absolutism and similar crap.

If you're interested in that chronological period of history, then I suggest you have a look at the agricultural and industrial revolutions, the key ideas being the enclosure movement which led (in the UK) to the former, and perhaps the scientific revolution and technological progress, as well as ideas on the peasantry and their antagonistic battles with the Lords (though that goes back into the medieval economy, really).

Os Cangaceiros
1st November 2012, 00:15
Empire by Hardt & Negri

Not solely about the Enlightenment but there's quite a bit about it in there, IIRC

The book is a bit difficult to read, though.

Ostrinski
1st November 2012, 00:28
Is there a specific aspect you are interested in?


I think the more important question is:

what is it about the enlightenment that you view as interesting from a Marxist sense?I guess the question was a little vague. I guess I wanted something that examines the thought of the important thinkers of the Enlightenment (Locke, Rousseau, Voltaire, Franklin, etc) without having to go through a biography of each of them.

Also, thanks to Zim, Borz, and OC for the recs.

l'Enfermé
1st November 2012, 02:35
I think the more important question is:

what is it about the enlightenment that you view as interesting from a Marxist sense?

I don't really have much sympathy with it. As far as i've read, a lot of stuff about the enlightenment, in terms of philosophical stuff, is cultural superiority and moral absolutism and similar crap.

If you're interested in that chronological period of history, then I suggest you have a look at the agricultural and industrial revolutions, the key ideas being the enclosure movement which led (in the UK) to the former, and perhaps the scientific revolution and technological progress, as well as ideas on the peasantry and their antagonistic battles with the Lords (though that goes back into the medieval economy, really).
Pretty odd to see this coming from someone who, at least in name, is a Marxist, seeing as how Marxist philosophy and political economy is the culmination and peak of the European Enlightenment.

Geiseric
1st November 2012, 04:37
Hasn't everything since capitalism picked up technically been enlightenment, compared to the feudalist epoch?

Ostrinski
1st November 2012, 04:57
Hasn't everything since capitalism picked up technically been enlightenment, compared to the feudalist epoch?Enlightenment generally refers to the Age of Enlightenment and is most generally seen as such.

Let's Get Free
1st November 2012, 05:04
The book is a bit difficult to read, though.

Written by academics, for academics.

Ostrinski
1st November 2012, 05:13
That's the kind of stuff I like generally.

Geiseric
1st November 2012, 05:19
Enlightenment generally refers to the Age of Enlightenment and is most generally seen as such.

Well is there a specific point where it ends?

Ostrinski
1st November 2012, 05:24
I don't know if there's a specific date and time, but from the mid/late 17th century throughout the 18th century. It refers more to a trend in ideological development and political movement that corresponded with it than a specific time period I think.

Robespierres Neck
1st November 2012, 07:34
I'm currently reading Discourse on the Origin of Inequality by Rosseau. I recommend it.

Bakunin Knight
7th November 2012, 22:45
I recommend Bakunin's essay on Rosseau's Theory of the State, in which he critiques the Enlightenment understanding of the origin and operation of the state, and shows that not only is it a false understanding, but that it also contains internal contradictions. Search online for Bakunin, Rosseau's Theory of the State (I don't yet have enough forum posts to post links).

Rafiq
8th November 2012, 02:35
I recommend Bakunin's essay on Rosseau's Theory of the State, in which he critiques the Enlightenment understanding of the origin and operation of the state, and shows that not only is it a false understanding, but that it also contains internal contradictions. Search online for Bakunin, Rosseau's Theory of the State (I don't yet have enough forum posts to post links).



Nobody needs that assclown's half assed, pathetic "analysis" of the development of the state. Really he's just trying to steal Marx's style.

Bakunin Knight
8th November 2012, 03:01
Bakunin didn't need to steal Marx's style. He had his own complete style, which went with his status as a great thinker.

o well this is ok I guess
8th November 2012, 05:18
Empire by Hardt & Negri

Not solely about the Enlightenment but there's quite a bit about it in there, IIRC It' a holdover from their studies in Foucault. The guy talks about the enlightenment more than any other era.

Rafiq
12th November 2012, 01:04
Bakunin didn't need to steal Marx's style. He had his own complete style, which went with his status as a great thinker.

Whatever style Bakunin possessed that wasn't an attempt to mimic Marx's genius, it was complete shit. I read some works by Bakunin a few years back and was absolutely disgusted with the man immediately. Never have I encountered a more irritating leftist in text, perhaps, maybe Trotsky was equally as annoying. The man is clearly talking out of his ass the whole time. Let me explain. He attacks moralism and morality and then goes on to make some of the most moralist arguments and critiques of Marx, etc.

His criticism of religion was laughable. His conception of the development of the state was a parody of itself. Actually, his criticism of religion left me under the assumption that he had just become and atheist and was struggling to sustain the concept that a conscious being did not precede everything (which is normal, in the early stages of atheism). I know it was foolish to call him a Russian spy but it wouldn't surprise me, all of his texts written to confuse radicals.

blake 3:17
20th November 2012, 02:17
I just got a book called A Wicked Company: The Radical Roots of the European Enlightenment. I'll comment on it after I've read it.

http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/8305177-a-wicked-company