Revolutionary Lumpenproletariat

[Trap Queen Voxxy]

I don't want this to turn into a huge argument fest, as this is mainly for research gathering however with this being said, a civil debate on the subject would be interesting. For whatever reason I seem to vaguely remember that certain members of the left have argued that the lumpenproletariat is the revolutionary class and or has revolutionary potential or some such thing. If members could post articles written by such people, name such people, elaborate on movements adhering to this view and so on, or anything on the subject, that'd be great.

All I know now is Bakunin had the opposite view of Marx on the subject and I'm trying to explore that.

[PC LOAD LETTER]

Huey P. Newton expounded on this, although I'm not sure of the details. Hopefully someone else can respond with more info.

[Luc]

i've yet to read this article (been meaning to) but i think it deals with the "lumpenproletariat" (whatever that is :glare:)

Remembering George Jackson & re-thinking revolutionary strategy (http://kasamaproject.org/2009/08/23/remembering-george-jackson-and-thinking-current-revolutionary-strategy/)

i think i have more i'll update this post if i do... its a subject im interested in as well so i should have more

M-L-M Mayhem! wrote a blog post on it: The Slippery Concept of the Lumpenproletariat (http://moufawad-paul.blogspot.ca/2012/06/slippery-concept-of-lumpenproletariat.html)

[Let's Get Free]

Frantz Fanon in "The Wretched of the Earth" wrote about the revolutionary potential of the lumpenproles. He goes into detail explaining that revolutionary groups should look to the lumpenproletariat for the force needed to get rid of the colonists.

[Luc]

Frantz Fanon in "The Wretched of the Earth" wrote about the revolutionary potential of the lumpenproles. He goes into detail explaining that revolutionary groups should look to the lumpenproletariat for the force needed to get rid of the colonists.

Did u read The Wtretched of the Earth? may i ask (because i havent) I believe as u said Franz Fanon states the lumpenproletariat can be used as revolutionary potential against colonialists but what about in non colonial cases? If the lumpenproletariat is not revolutionary in non-colonial circumstances (assuming of course it is even a class) is this not simply saying classes can unite in nationalist effort to kick out colonialists? and is thus class collaboration in a national liberation movement with an otherwise reactionary class. To add would not the antagonisms arise between class interests of the Proletariat and the Lumpenproletariat as it has with the Peasantry?

im sorry if i sound antagonistic and am mixing up anti-colonialism and national liberation im just curious as i said i havent even read it:)

all of this of course is based on the presumption that the lumpenproletariat is even a class which im doubtful of and would make my thoughts falsely presumptious lol i got no idea how to word that but u know what i mean :lol:

[Let's Get Free]

Did u read The Wtretched of the Earth? may i ask (because i havent) I believe as u said Franz Fanon states the lumpenproletariat can be used as revolutionary potential against colonialists but what about in non colonial cases?


I read Wretched of the Earth about a year ago. I don’t remember him talking to much about the revolutionary potential of the lumpen proletariat in non-colonized nations. He writes about the colonized world and his time with the FLN in Algeria.


If the lumpenproletariat is not revolutionary in non-colonial circumstances (assuming of course it is even a class) is this not simply saying classes can unite in nationalist effort to kick out colonialists? and is thus class collaboration in a national liberation movement with an otherwise reactionary class. To add would not the antagonisms arise between class interests of the Proletariat and the Lumpenproletariat as it has with the Peasantry?



Well, in the book, he says the most important classes for the revolution is the peasantry and the lumpenproletariats, and for them to struggle with success they should work together with “urban intellectuals”, a small number of whom “go to the people” in the countryside and begin to live and work among them.

[Luc]

I read Wretched of the Earth about a year ago. I don’t remember him talking to much about the revolutionary potential of the lumpen proletariat in non-colonized nations. He writes about the colonized world and his time with the FLN in Algeria.
ah ok, sounds interesting i best check it out

Well, in the book, he says the most important classes for the revolution is the peasantry and the lumpenproletariats, and for them to struggle with success they should work together with “urban intellectuals”, a small number of whom “go to the people” in the countryside and begin to live and work among them.
Really? No Proletariat? huh i really have no idea about Franz Fanon

[hetz]

Revolutionary as long as there's beer and weed around...

[sunfarstar]

中国革命党【马列】总书记
姓名：华乔005
性别：男
年龄：40岁
职业：专业摄影师
居住地：上海闵行世博家园11街坊

中国革命党【马列】铁血锄奸队政委
姓名：罗欣003
性别：男
年龄：28岁
职业：摇滚歌手

中国革命党【马列】国际纵队总队长
姓名：吴沉002
性别：男
年龄：26岁
职业：留学生

中国革命党【马列】革命武装总司令
姓名：严良斌004
性别：男
年龄：35岁
职业：游击队员

中国革命党【马列】学运总动员指挥长
姓名：盖茹雨008
性别：男
年龄：18岁
职业：高中学生



网事风云起
决战燃烽火
权贵无耻极
官僚亦作恶
誓言斗资本
不坐阿斗席
三分天玺印
悬剑尔同桌


《五言、咏时事》
:thumbup1::cool::laugh::):lol:

[Jimmie Higgins]

Huey P. Newton expounded on this, although I'm not sure of the details. Hopefully someone else can respond with more info.I'm not an expert, but I think many of the Panthers saw specifically the black underclass as sort of a parallel to peasants in the thrid world. At a time when much of the Left saw the working class as too accomodating and confortable, some Panthers thought that the "brother on the block" with nothing to loose would be the "vanguard" of blacks who would then be the vanguard group within the US.

Many people they catagorized into this group really wouldn't be lumpen in the sence I think of that designation - many were drug users or just chronically unemployed and maybe at that time when there were some more job options for more people, they could be seen as outside the working class, but today I generally just consider people like that to be workers who happen to be part of the reserve labor pool due to a number of factors (including racism and the prison system which activly makes some people practically unemployable - or at least severly restricts the ability to maintain a stable life as a worker). But they also looked to politicize and radicallize neighborhood street gangs in places like LA and Chicago - though I don't know the extent of this effort or if just the rising policial consiousness of that time drew young kids away from organizing the neighborhood in a sort of defensive gang sort of way and towards organizing in a political way, and then the Panthers generalized this phenomena.

While some Marxists in the past have been very hostile to the lumpenproletariet (I think old CPers can be this way) and Marx wrote some pretty harsh language about this designation, I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with trying to organize people - especailly people who may make money on the black market just to survive, not the Tony Sopranos of the world. Tons of workers are forced to the margins these days and for youth in places where there is 25% or more youth unemployment, often it's just the only option. For people like that, their interests would most likely be in line with working class interests. In the 1980s, a priest organized a Press-confernece for LA gangs and what was their suggestion to the city for ending street-level drug-violence: decent jobs and housing for people. In "Bastards of the Party" which is about LA gangs, the point is made that before the 1980s, people joined gangs as kids but then settled down, got jobs, and had families once they graduated from high school - whereas now it's a career simply because many people can never hope to have that kind of stability any more.

But I think it is wrong to see the lumpen as an alternative group to organized, counterposed to the whole working class. One of the ironys about the Panthers is that they had huge support from Black workers and often the people engaging in urban riots weren't the most desperate and unemployed, but young workers. So while I think there are some real lessons and great examples of organizing done by the Panthers on the corners and avenues, they also missed out on a real base of black working class power: here in Oakland, the docks and trains and so on - the black working class of the 1960s made this city run and many were supporters and inspired by the Panthers.

So while I think people should organize with the people around them and work with anyone who wants to fight, ultimately, I think the lumpen have to be organized in support of a working class movement of employed and unemployed workers. Because the lumpen are either going to rally to working class interests, or they can alternativly be rallied to reaction - either politically or just by virtue of being marginal which may make some people open to scabbing against strikes or even being hired thugs.