New Labour: Middle-class voters 'more leftwing'

[blake 3:17]

Middle-class voters 'more leftwing' than the working-class

Poll suggests working-class people are less progressive than the middle-class on issues such as overseas aid and immigration
Patrick Wintour, political editor
The Guardian, Friday 26 October 2012 17.38 BST

Poll findings arguably underline the complex challenge Ed Miliband faces in reconnecting with Labour’s core supporters. Photograph: Jason Alden /Rex Features
More middle-class voters regard themselves as leftwing than do working-class voters, and working-class people show less support for overseas aid and immigration than middle-class voters, according to a new YouGov poll, commissioned by Progress, the Labour pressure group.

The findings arguably underline the complex challenge Ed Miliband faces in reconnecting with people who were once described as Labour's core supporters.

Peter Kellner, the YouGov president, said: "While middle-class voters divide evenly on immigration, working-class voters divide more than two-to-one in favour of stopping all immigration.

"Likewise with overseas aid: middle-class voters divide evenly on whether to end it altogether, while working-class voters back the idea by two-to-one."

On welfare reform, the picture is more nuanced. Overall, middle-class voters show 53% to 38% in favour of reducing welfare benefits for the unemployed, but working-class voters came out 45% to 40% against the idea.

However, skilled workers, as opposed to those with unskilled jobs or relying on state benefits (DEs), are as keen on reducing benefits as the ABs and C1s; it is the DEs who come out against the idea. This policy is also supported in every region except the north of England and Scotland.

Kellner concludes: "Opposition to lower benefits is greatest among those who most fear losing out, or are currently relying on state benefits – scant sign there of working-class solidarity."

The polling, based on aggregate data compiled in the summer and autumn, shows proportionately more middle-class people (36%) describe themselves as leftwing than working-class (28%).

Far more DE voters disown any political affiliation.

The results lead Kellner to conclude that although working-class voters are still more likely to vote Labour than Conservative, this has more to do with tribe and tradition, than ideology or policy.

He is more broadly a strong advocate of the view that Labour will win from the centre.

The polling also shows working-class voters regard stopping immigration as the single most important of seven policies put to them.

Among C2 and DE voters a ban on all immigration is supported by 67% to 26%. Among middle-class voters (ABC1 voters) support is evenly divided with 49% to 46% opposed. On ending all overseas aid, the proposition is supported by C2 and DE voters by 58% to 31% and opposed by AB voters by 48% to 47%. On reducing welfare benefits to the unemployed ABs support the measure by 53% to 38% and C2s by a similar margin of 52 to 33%. Only DEs oppose the measure by a considerable 56 to 29%.

Across the classes there is uniform opposition to income tax increases to protect public services. There is also general opposition to spending cuts.

There is little class difference in overall support shown for gay marriage, nationalising the rail companies or putting workers on company boards.

Progress director Robert Philpott said: "These results show the need for Labour to avoid sectional appeals targeted at specific classes. As it did in the runup to 1997 election, the party needs to develop policies and a message that can appeal across a broad cross-class coalition. Ed Miliband's notion of one nation Labour offers the opportunity to do just that."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2012/oct/26/middle-class-leftwing-working-poll

[doesn't even make sense]

If what these polls suggest about the prevalence of nativist attitudes among workers in the U.K. is accurate, it's quite alarming. What the numbers say about the opposition to austerity and cuts in benefits is also pretty pitiful.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

Ever since I started taking notice of the news, I've seen that immigration has always been a constant theme, although varying in overall loudness as other issues take and leave prominence. But the media, for as long as I can remember, has been pushing immigration as some kind of problem, with the blame and anger resulting from people's increasingly disappointing job prospects being placed upon people looking for a better life, rather than the crooks in charge looking for a better bottom line.

I'm continually disappointed in peoples' failure to realise where the true power lies in employment relationships. Why get angry at the immigrant for "taking" a job that was never offered to you in the first place?

[Comrade Jandar]

Dumb proles. Just kidding. I'm sure it has something to do with the workers recognizing the betrayal of Labor time and time again and thinking that the solution resides on the right rather than the far left.

[hetz]

Well that's interesting though not surprising or unexpected.
Any comments from UK members?

[x-punk]

All these figures seem to show me is that the people voting in the survey want what is best for themselves only which is probably an accurate reflection on the attitudes of many of the people in the UK.

On immigration. There is a general undercurrent in the uk where many people feel that immigrant workers will work far harder for far less money (mostly in unskilled jobs). This has been fuelled by the media which has also been running a number of news stories about immigrants who just come to the uk to live off benefits with no intention of working. As so many just hang on anything they hear and see in the media, its no real surprise there is anti-immigrations sentiment with many people, stronger in those who believe they are more directly disadvantaged from immigration.

On benefits: The middle class who are unlikely to need state assistance dont give a shit about those who do, thus want to keep their money for themselves. The working class who may need this assistance just to keep their head above water unsurprisingly support a welfare system.

The media has been running a never ending stream of 'benefit queen' stories. Promoting this nonsensical idea that those on benefits live some kind of luxury lifestyle at the expense of others. So this has fuelled a real anti-welfare attitude among many in the UK. For many, if you are on the dole in the uk, you are seen as really a piece of worthless shit.

I could go through the other topics mentioned in the survey but there is no real point. Suffice to say people will generally support that which provides them greater material wealth and this attitude is influenced to a staggering degree by the mainstream media which often has a sickening right-wing attitude promoted in its news.

[dodger]

Well that's interesting though not surprising or unexpected.
Any comments from UK members?

http://www.fearandhope.org.uk/

According to the survey, 39% of Asian Britons, 34% of white Britons and 21% of black Britons wanted all immigration into the UK to be stopped permanently, or at least until the economy improved. And 43% of Asian Britons, 63% of white Britons and 17% of black Britons agreed with the statement that "immigration into Britain has been a bad thing for the country". Just over half of respondents – 52% – agreed with the proposition that "Muslims create problems in the UK".

2/3's of people here believe Extremist English Nationalists are as bad as Muslim Extremists. Surely some acknowledgement here that not all Muslim or indeed all English are as one.

Another survey showed Muslims 'happy' with their 'white' neighbours. In mid 80's percentage wise. Good, could be higher, better.

One device used by capitalism precisely for purposes of division is immigration — just the mention of the word reduces some to apoplexy and threats of violence. It is taboo. They concentrate on the crude fascism of the BNP, which is obvious to everyone. The underlying questions are, however, obfuscated.

The need for political asylum and asylum policy is not what is in dispute. Nor Spouse settlement, though these are abused, by some. It is the insatiable appetite of the employers for cheap labour that is being suppressed in this debate. Meanwhile, the countries of origin of migrant workers — whether from Africa, Asia , Australasia, or Europe — are robbed of the chance to build up their own skilled working class.

The EU free-for-all, the tearing down of borders, will — if we let it — throw 450 million workers into the biggest piranha pool of cheap labour that we have yet known. But when workers attempt to knock down the shibboleths of European union, immigration, race and religion, they are denounced — as Little Englanders, imperialists, racists, xeno-phobes, lacking in respect.

In fact, avoiding the debate shows lack of respect for the intelligence of fellow workers.

Mind you here where I live 2,500 leave every day. My daughter in law one of those number--Quatar she said. 16% of all children do not have a parent in the country. My niece one of the 30,000 nurses that graduate every year, finds that UK has stopped recruitment. There will be same number graduating next year and the year after. Dumb career move. Looks like she will be working as a domestic with her cousin. Such is life. My daughter in law with 3kids tearing at her clothes, sobbing, sisters too, looked unlikely to leave. I said as much to the security guard at the provincial airport. He offered me a cigarette and told me don't worry they all go. She is the 20th one this morning-"they all go!" Jesus what a bloody morning--she wont be back for 3 years..by the time she has paid the 'agents' etc.

[Quail]

On immigration. There is a general undercurrent in the uk where many people feel that immigrant workers will work far harder for far less money (mostly in unskilled jobs). This has been fuelled by the media which has also been running a number of news stories about immigrants who just come to the uk to live off benefits with no intention of working. As so many just hang on anything they hear and see in the media, its no real surprise there is anti-immigrations sentiment with many people, stronger in those who believe they are more directly disadvantaged from immigration.
Immigrants can't just come here and start claiming benefits anyway, so this is a frustrating myth (but easy to counter when people come out with it).

The statistics in the OP are depressing, but not wholly unexpected.

[Raúl Duke]

In the US, people make-believe undocumented immigrants get welfare and such too.

Which shows a misunderstanding of the welfare system.
As long as you're applying by yourself, you need to present a social security and other stuff. Undocumented immigrants most likely don't have a SSN.

I find it interesting that many on here say "It's the media" which causes this. Not to say I disagree, it just reminds me a lot of Gramsci's theories.

[Jimmie Higgins]

One device used by capitalism precisely for purposes of division is immigration — just the mention of the word reduces some to apoplexy and threats of violence. It is taboo. They concentrate on the crude fascism of the BNP, which is obvious to everyone. The underlying questions are, however, obfuscated.

The need for political asylum and asylum policy is not what is in dispute. Nor Spouse settlement, though these are abused, by some. It is the insatiable appetite of the employers for cheap labour that is being suppressed in this debate. Meanwhile, the countries of origin of migrant workers — whether from Africa, Asia , Australasia, or Europe — are robbed of the chance to build up their own skilled working class.

The EU free-for-all, the tearing down of borders, will — if we let it — throw 450 million workers into the biggest piranha pool of cheap labour that we have yet known. But when workers attempt to knock down the shibboleths of European union, immigration, race and religion, they are denounced — as Little Englanders, imperialists, racists, xeno-phobes, lacking in respect.

In fact, avoiding the debate shows lack of respect for the intelligence of fellow workers.

Mind you here where I live 2,500 leave every day. My daughter in law one of those number--Quatar she said. 16% of all children do not have a parent in the country. My niece one of the 30,000 nurses that graduate every year, finds that UK has stopped recruitment. There will be same number graduating next year and the year after. Dumb career move. Looks like she will be working as a domestic with her cousin. Such is life. My daughter in law with 3kids tearing at her clothes, sobbing, sisters too, looked unlikely to leave. I said as much to the security guard at the provincial airport. He offered me a cigarette and told me don't worry they all go. She is the 20th one this morning-"they all go!" Jesus what a bloody morning--she wont be back for 3 years..by the time she has paid the 'agents' etc.

So what's the correct population level for workers to have favorable conditions for getting jobs in capitalism? Why are immigrants the problem that should be taken seriously as "a problem"? Shouldn't we also take seriously the concerns of mysoginistic ideas - wouldn't excluding women from the workforce offset the "piranha pool of cheap labour"? What about stripping convicts of the ability to work - what if we just fight to keep them in prison for life so that there is less competition for jobs? What about unpopular ethnic groups - Roma don't want to work anyway, so why don't we advocate that they not be allowed to work and then we can move them into these confined neighborhoods. What about young people entering the job pool or old people - why don't we just fight to have everone over 45 fired? So why immigrants?
:rolleyes:

Immigration is not a tool for dividing the working class - it the result of two things: the desire on the part of bosses to have a reserve labor pool and the need for people in the capitalist world to migrate to areas of production in order to obtain jobs. There is internal migration that is no different than migration over political borders that the ruling classes divide the world up by.

The problem is not in the migration itself or in the people, the problem is the concentration of capital and jobs and it's organization for profit that is constantly causing instability in worker's lives and upending communities and old ways of producting. The divisions come in not from the immigrants for being immigrants, but often in the way that their more precarious position in society is used to create a 2nd-class pool of labor.

Competition, divisions within the class, and so on exist IRREGARDLESS of immigrantion or migration. Advocating the restriction of immigrants or denial of full rights such as they exist in a capitalist country only strengthens the ability of the ruling class to push around and repress that migrant labor force, scapegoat problems of the system onto workers themselves (in this case specific groups of workers), and strengthen divisions within the class.

I agree that we should take this seriously - but I don't think that means being soft on nativism, actually the opposite: fighting for full rights and ability to organize regardless of immigration status.

[Will Scarlet]

Even when working class people vote Labour like a clever Guardian reader would (except when they're being told to vote Lib Dem :laugh:) it is for dumb reasons, because they are dumb. Fuck off.

[Hit The North]

Immigration is not a tool for dividing the working class

Except that it certainly is used as a tool for dividing the working class in the political rhetoric of the far right, the centre and any anti-immigrant voices in the Labour Movement. This, of course, is different from its material basis but in the ideological struggle it is presented as a potent example of how the working class is divided, alongside the countless other distinctions that the politicians play on such as public versus private sector workers, poor workers versus the poor workless, North versus South, etcetera.

As NoXion and x-punk point out, the Coalition government is using the media to transmit a stream of bile concerning immigration, benefit scroungers, lawless chavs, etc. All of this is geared towards justifying punishing austerity pogroms against various under-privileged groups and pitting worker against worker. So no wonder these reactionary ideas are reflected in the opinions of many workers.

At the end of the day, this is why we need to be on point in how we challenge these reactionary ideas.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

http://www.fearandhope.org.uk/

According to the survey, 39% of Asian Britons, 34% of white Britons and 21% of black Britons wanted all immigration into the UK to be stopped permanently, or at least until the economy improved. And 43% of Asian Britons, 63% of white Britons and 17% of black Britons agreed with the statement that "immigration into Britain has been a bad thing for the country". Just over half of respondents – 52% – agreed with the proposition that "Muslims create problems in the UK".

Erm, so fucking what? It's not just White British people who can be racist and xenophobic.


2/3's of people here believe Extremist English Nationalists are as bad as Muslim Extremists. Surely some acknowledgement here that not all Muslim or indeed all English are as one.

Another survey showed Muslims 'happy' with their 'white' neighbours. In mid 80's percentage wise. Good, could be higher, better.

Your point being?


One device used by capitalism precisely for purposes of division is immigration — just the mention of the word reduces some to apoplexy and threats of violence. It is taboo. They concentrate on the crude fascism of the BNP, which is obvious to everyone. The underlying questions are, however, obfuscated.

The need for political asylum and asylum policy is not what is in dispute. Nor Spouse settlement, though these are abused, by some. It is the insatiable appetite of the employers for cheap labour that is being suppressed in this debate.

If cheap labour is the problem, then why do twats like you keep going on about closing the borders? Surely you must realise the problem isn't people crossing arbitrary borders, but the existence of an economic system under which workers have no meaningful power.


Meanwhile, the countries of origin of migrant workers — whether from Africa, Asia , Australasia, or Europe — are robbed of the chance to build up their own skilled working class.

I'm an internationalist. I care about the workers as a class, not whatever countries they happen to have been born in.


The EU free-for-all, the tearing down of borders, will — if we let it — throw 450 million workers into the biggest piranha pool of cheap labour that we have yet known. But when workers attempt to knock down the shibboleths of European union, immigration, race and religion, they are denounced — as Little Englanders, imperialists, racists, xeno-phobes, lacking in respect.

In fact, avoiding the debate shows lack of respect for the intelligence of fellow workers.

You want to talk about the depression of the cost of labour, then talk about it, stop fucking wittering on like a racist fuckhead about the tearing down of borders, like some fuckwit nationalist!


Mind you here where I live 2,500 leave every day. My daughter in law one of those number--Quatar she said. 16% of all children do not have a parent in the country. My niece one of the 30,000 nurses that graduate every year, finds that UK has stopped recruitment. There will be same number graduating next year and the year after. Dumb career move. Looks like she will be working as a domestic with her cousin. Such is life. My daughter in law with 3kids tearing at her clothes, sobbing, sisters too, looked unlikely to leave. I said as much to the security guard at the provincial airport. He offered me a cigarette and told me don't worry they all go. She is the 20th one this morning-"they all go!" Jesus what a bloody morning--she wont be back for 3 years..by the time she has paid the 'agents' etc.

Tell me, do you think people like your daughter-in-law would be a better or worse position were her economic migrations more restricted?

[piet11111]

Why does it read like a liberal "dumb proles" piece.

[dodger]

Why does it read like a liberal "dumb proles" piece.

Because here we have been overwhelmed__ shaven headed, boot wearing, coke sniffing, drunks, sporting 'I LUV ENGLAND' tatoos) apparently many wear Turbans:thumbup:, black chavs now as well?? Fascists by all accounts. British Working Class as viewed by those who are plagued with our obduracy. Frightening when you consider 85% think that way. Daily Mail can hardly keep pace with peoples. What next UNION JACK SARIS?:confused:

[dodger]

Well that's interesting though not surprising or unexpected.
Any comments from UK members?


“I want to say that my views on Golden Dawn have been mainly shaped by my orientation as a communist in KOE. I don’t fight them in the struggle as Eva the immigrant, but as Eva, the member of KOE.

“Golden Dawn is a social problem. Golden Dawn came to prominence through the absence of the Left. The Left has offered no reasonable answer or program to the people in relationship to immigration. At this point, there is an immigration question related to huge numbers of migrants who have come, but cannot be assimilated by the Greek society.”

http://kasamaproject.org/2012/09/26/taking-responsibility-to-change-the-world-on-golden-dawn-and-revolution-in-the-21st-century/

I hope the above is of interest, stalinets. Perhaps give you a wider slant on matters.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

Because here we have been overwhelmed__ shaven headed, boot wearing, coke sniffing, drunks, sporting 'I LUV ENGLAND' tatoos) apparently many wear Turbans:thumbup:, black chavs now as well?? Fascists by all accounts. British Working Class as viewed by those who are plagued with our obduracy. Frightening when you consider 85% think that way. Daily Mail can hardly keep pace with peoples. What next UNION JACK SARIS?:confused:

Do you ever talk sense? I mean, apart from the times when you recycle "uncontrolled immigration"/"Dey turk urr jerbs!" talking points from the Daily Mail, that is.

[Will Scarlet]

http://kasamaproject.org/2012/09/26/taking-responsibility-to-change-the-world-on-golden-dawn-and-revolution-in-the-21st-century/

I hope the above is of interest, stalinets. Perhaps give you a wider slant on matters.
Fight Golden Dawn (fascism) by propagating Golden Dawn (fascist) rhetoric, yeah that'll work.

[hetz]

Fight Golden Dawn (fascism) by propagating Golden Dawn (fascist) rhetoric, yeah that'll work.
What are you talking about? :confused:

[NGNM85]

In the US, people make-believe undocumented immigrants get welfare and such too.

Which shows a misunderstanding of the welfare system.
As long as you're applying by yourself, you need to present a social security and other stuff. Undocumented immigrants most likely don't have a SSN.

I find it interesting that many on here say "It's the media" which causes this. Not to say I disagree, it just reminds me a lot of Gramsci's theories.

I got sucked into a political discussion with my dad not too long ago, in which he tried to tell me that all his tax money is going to illegal immigrants.
I was like; :confused: then I was like; :cursing:
Unfortunately; as you point out, these misconceptions are far from uncommon, especially among working class whites.