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View Full Version : Maoism or Trotskyism?



deer_skull
25th October 2012, 18:53
PDF Link:

www[dot]mediafire[dot]com/view/?g6nsqj65xpzdx5y

(stupid low post link block)

TL;DR but hopefully it interests you in actually reading it (no investigation; no right to speak).

This is a well argued piece that directly addresses the accusations put forth by Goldner; namely, class collaboration (aka it being bourgeois revolution with red flags), Maoism being equated to "Stalinism," and its mechanistic assertion that the peasantry is ultimately counter-revolutionary.

It begins by directly engaging the Trotskyist notion of "Permanent Revolution" and ultimately demonstrates its absurdity as viable revolutionary theory. It compares this theory to the Maoist "New Democracy," explaining why these two concepts are meant to address the same question and how New Democracy does this successfully. Further on this issue, it argues against the characterization that Maoism can be reduced to ND, but rather it is a robust revolutionary theory with universal implications not limited to peripheral nations.

He then addresses the "Stalinist" accusations, showing how they are the result of the mechanistic (and incorrect) understanding that there is either true Marxism-Leninism as Trotskyism or false forms as Stalinism. He goes into detail regarding their inability to properly analyze the Soviet regression under Khruschev that results from this understanding, and how Mao succeeded in identifying and critiquing this regression; not to mention the identification that class struggle continues under the socialist transition, and thus demands the re-ignition of proletarian revolutionary forces (culminating historically in the GPCR).

Finally, he compares the successes in starting mass movements that both the Trotskyist and Maoist lines have inspired, noting that the former has none while the latter has inspired revolutions in Peru, India, Nepal, and the Philippines (I apologize if I missed any others).

In short, this is definitely worth reading since it sheds light on some of the theoretical components of Maoism as well as the inadequacies of the theory behind Trotskyism.

Yet_Another_Boring_Marxist
6th November 2012, 17:43
Splendid piece from a wonderful blog

TheGodlessUtopian
6th November 2012, 17:45
Indeed most of the Trotskyist response to JMP's essay have been lackluster.I would sorely like to see a Trotskyist give as thoughtful critique of his essay as JMP did of Trotskyism itself.

Let's Get Free
6th November 2012, 18:00
Finally, he compares the successes in starting mass movements that both the Trotskyist and Maoist lines have inspired, noting that the former has none while the latter has inspired revolutions in Peru, India, Nepal, and the Philippines (I apologize if I missed any others).

Maoism today is confined either to hopeless, futile guerrilla struggles in the third world or equally as hopeless and futile election campaigns in the first world, like the MLPD in Germany, with the results upon victory being to create yet another bureaucratic collectivist regime over the proletariat(and that's the best case scenario. The Maoists in Nepal showed that they were incapable even of this.)

Grenzer
6th November 2012, 19:12
You can't really judge an ideology solely based on how many revolutions it's inspired. The biggest legacy of Maoism seems to be what is rapidly becoming the world's most influential imperialist superpower: China. That doesn't exactly seem to be a great legacy.

If we were to judge Maoism by such a standard: then it's one of the worst, plain and simple. Compared to the Marxism-Leninism of Brezhnev, Maoism has been marginal and irrelevant. Once the Maoists consider why they reject the post-Stalin bona fides of Marxism-Leninism, then they'll understand why we dismiss Maoism. It's repeatedly proven that it's just not a viable road to proletarian revolution and socialism.

The peasantry's interests are ultimately hostile to socialism and proletarian dictatorship. The basis of Marxism is the understanding that society is divided into classes, each with their own unique material interests. If the peasantry's interests were in alignment with socialism, then they wouldn't even be peasants to begin with as their material interests are conditioned by their relationship to the means of production. I guess you could call that mechanical, but it's no more mechanical than saying that the bourgeoisie's class interests are always hostile to socialism. The Maoist invocation of "dogmatism" is always in defense of its revisionist and anti-proletarian agenda.

Delenda Carthago
6th November 2012, 19:14
fuck em both. communism.

l'Enfermé
6th November 2012, 20:33
These discussions on Maoism are absolutely worthless. Maoism has absolutely nothing to do with the working class and the world-historical movement of the working class, communism. The standard-bearer of Maoism has always been the peasantry and the petty-bourgeoisie.

Omsk
6th November 2012, 21:11
Of course, a correct Marxist approach to the question of Maoism would simply be based aroud the analysis that Mao was a progressive figure, a bourgeois-democratic individual, but not a communist revolutionary. and that the CCP led a petty-bourgeois revolution, and that the Chinese proletariat had some gains during those years, which were of course, later minimalized, becuse the other classes had different interests. Some of his policies were basically rightist.

Let's Get Free
6th November 2012, 21:45
These discussions on Maoism are absolutely worthless. Maoism has absolutely nothing to do with the working class and the world-historical movement of the working class, communism. The standard-bearer of Maoism has always been the peasantry and the petty-bourgeoisie.

I'd say Mao Tse Tung was a great bourgeois revolutionary in the sense that the revolution he lead laid the foundations of China becoming a major capitalist power. But nothing spectacular from a proletarian point of view, as he derailed what could have become a truly proletarian revolution (i.e. the 1966-1969 events, usually known as "Cultural Revolution") into senseless attacks against a handful of liberal intellectuals and his own political adversaries in the CCP. The death toll from his government's disastrous, Utopian, idealistic, "overnight industrialization" policies of the Great Leap Forward shouldn't be forgotten either.

Yet_Another_Boring_Marxist
6th November 2012, 22:52
Maoism today is confined either to hopeless, futile guerrilla struggles in the third world or equally as hopeless and futile election campaigns in the first world, like the MLPD in Germany, with the results upon victory being to create yet another bureaucratic collectivist regime over the proletariat(and that's the best case scenario. The Maoists in Nepal showed that they were incapable even of this.)

More futile than Trostite entryism and electoral politics?

l'Enfermé
7th November 2012, 18:23
More futile than Trostite entryism and electoral politics?
What the fuck does Trotskyism have to do with The Insurrectionist? He's an Anarchist. Not a single Trotskyist even posted in this thread.

Zeus the Moose
7th November 2012, 19:26
What the fuck does Trotskyism have to do with The Insurrectionist? He's an Anarchist. Not a single Trotskyist even posted in this thread.

I did a quick read-through of the article and I didn't particularly notice a critique of Goldner's piece, except where it touched on "similarities to Trotskyism" in the views of the authors. This seems utterly bizarre to me, as while Goldner did start out, IIRC, in the Draperite Trotskyist tradition (the American IS), he's pretty much a left communist now. The article does do a good job of trying to contextulise its critique in the introduction (not being simply an anti-Trotskyist hack job, etc), but it still seems a little strange to use a critique of Goldner's critique to talk about Trotskyism.