Financing Greek Communists

[Comrade #138672]

As the crisis in Greece intensifies - and therefore the Class Struggle as well - shouldn't we support our Greek Communists financially with donations? Perhaps these donations could be used for propaganda and raising awareness in Greek workers. Even if we would all just give a little, combined it could make a small difference.

This may be naive though. It's just an idea.

[Lenina Rosenweg]

An advantage of being in an international is that I do contribute to a solidarity fund. In this case its Xekinima (CWI in Greece). We were in Syriza but left after it turned out Synapismos were not going to go left. The Kasama people have solidarity with the KOE, a Maoist faction within Syriza.

[Delenda Carthago]

I think Xekinima is the most important group to aid financially too. They are doing a reat job, giving them a deep root in the working class. Without them, all 14 of them, class struggle in Greece is a dead end.

[Sasha]

I think Xekinima is the most important group to aid financially too. They are doing a reat job, giving them a deep root in the working class. Without them, all 14 of them, class struggle in Greece is a dead end.

verbal for flaming, let's keep this respectful ppl...

[Workers-Control-Over-Prod]

As the crisis in Greece intensifies - and therefore the Class Struggle as well - shouldn't we support our Greek Communists financially with donations? Perhaps these donations could be used for propaganda and raising awareness in Greek workers. Even if we would all just give a little, combined it could make a small difference.

This may be naive though. It's just an idea.

Yes, sure you can donate to Gree Communists. But you should donate to Communist organizations in your own country first.

[hashem]

shouldn't we support our Greek Communists financially with donations?

NO. Greek communists can legally gather financial aids from Greek workers. so unless they want to rely on something other than workers which they should represent, they dont need financial aid from abroad. if workers of their country are not willing to help them, there is no reason for foreign workers to do so.

in countries which worker and communist organizations are banned and have to work illegally, foreign aid can be useful. if you want to help someone, help them.

[Rugged Collectivist]

NO. Greek communists can legally gather financial aids from Greek workers. so unless they want to rely on something other than workers which they should represent, they dont need financial aid from abroad. if workers of their country are not willing to help them, there is no reason for foreign workers to do so.

in countries which worker and communist organizations are banned and have to work illegally, foreign aid can be useful. if you want to help someone, help them.

I think dividing the class struggle based on arbitrary borders will do more harm than good. I could understand if Greek parties were getting aid from like, the PRC or something, but I have no problem with foreign workers contributing.

The working class transcends national borders, A victory in Greece is a victory everywhere, and it could have far reaching consequences.

[aty]

Exactly, the workers in Greece have to win. Or else Greece will be the capitalists warning to workers all over the world. If we dont do as the capitalists want too there will be mayhem and fascist militias roaming the streets and your children will starve.

Victory in Greece is the most important thing right now in the global class struggle. In a few years I expect international brigades being formed and sent to Greece, and this time we cant loose. With every means possible.

[Ravachol]

Not to poop on everybody's party but what would 'victory in Greece' even look like?

I think support to the Greek revolutionary movement (both financial, material and through solidarity abroad) is very important but if 'the struggle' doesn't spread internationally, it all doesn't matter either way. So I'd say gear up and step up your game in your 'own countries' too.

[hashem]

I think dividing the class struggle based on arbitrary borders will do more harm than good. I could understand if Greek parties were getting aid from like, the PRC or something, but I have no problem with foreign workers contributing.

The working class transcends national borders, A victory in Greece is a victory everywhere, and it could have far reaching consequences.

who are Greek communists working with? workers of Greece or other countries? you cant avoid this question by saying that you dont recognize any arbitrary border.

if they are representing huge masses of workers and toilers, then few coins from each worker family would be sufficient for them. but if they are not, it means they are some sectarians who are unrelated to worker class. and by helping sectarians or opportunists, you are disturbing the struggle of proletariat.

remember how different Bolsheviks and Liquidators collected their money? Bolsheviks were dependent on kopeks which were gathered from workers while liquidators and trotkyists were dependent on their rich friends from abroad.

[aty]

Not to poop on everybody's party but what would 'victory in Greece' even look like?

I think support to the Greek revolutionary movement (both financial, material and through solidarity abroad) is very important but if 'the struggle' doesn't spread internationally, it all doesn't matter either way. So I'd say gear up and step up your game in your 'own countries' too.
A victory in Greece would look like the people organizing the production and society themselves, not any longer working producing capital. Refusing to pay any debt. But this is far of as you may know...

In short term a victory would look like the greeks not falling into apathy and just accepting their situation and let the fascists roam the streets. To always build more resistance and build own organizations that helps the people organize themselves.
Right now, the greeks is in a state of apathy. Something need to happen, a spark. Or else the working class will just slip into poverty and dictatorship in silence.

Right now Greece is the frontline in Europe, but as you say we cant forget our own countries and organize where you live. Greece will set the example of how the class war will be fought by the elite in Europe.

Sometimes it feels like we dont understand how a crucial moment in history this is.

[Rugged Collectivist]

who are Greek communists working with? workers of Greece or other countries?

Ideally they should be working with both.


if they are representing huge masses of workers and toilers, then few coins from each worker family would be sufficient for them. but if they are not, it means they are some sectarians who are unrelated to worker class. and by helping sectarians or opportunists, you are disturbing the struggle of proletariat.

remember how different Bolsheviks and Liquidators collected their money? Bolsheviks were dependent on kopeks which were gathered from workers while liquidators and trotkyists were dependent on their rich friends from abroad.

We aren't talking about wealthy foreigners. We're talking about workers from other countries. Capitalism is a global system that needs to be fought on a global scale.

I never understood why some people think it's unacceptable to "impose" communism on foreign workers, while advocating repression of reactionaries at home. Nationality is a bourgeois distinction that can't be allowed to hinder our movement.

[hashem]

We aren't talking about wealthy foreigners. We're talking about workers from other countries.

why should foreign workers help them when workers of their own country are not willing to? and the only reason which Greek workers are not willing to help them is because they are not true communists. they are sectarians, opportunists and trotskyists who are willing to rely on help from politically backward foreign workers, naives who dont even know them or those who are betraying workers in their own countries and are willing to supporting groups with a same rule abroad.

only miserable sectarians will need money from abroad while they can legally gather it from workers of their own country.

[Crux]

who are Greek communists working with? workers of Greece or other countries? you cant avoid this question by saying that you dont recognize any arbitrary border.

if they are representing huge masses of workers and toilers, then few coins from each worker family would be sufficient for them. but if they are not, it means they are some sectarians who are unrelated to worker class. and by helping sectarians or opportunists, you are disturbing the struggle of proletariat.

remember how different Bolsheviks and Liquidators collected their money? Bolsheviks were dependent on kopeks which were gathered from workers while liquidators and trotkyists were dependent on their rich friends from abroad.
Obviously you are suffering from selective amnesia and what seems to be nationalist prejudices.

Does the names Friedrich Engels and Karl Marx mean anything to you? One certainly fits the definition of a "rich friend" and both were active in exile for the german, and indeed the international, worker's struggle.

James Connolly also explains the basics of internationalism quite well: (http://www.marxist.net/ireland/connolly/socialism/index.html)
"The wage worker is oppressed under this system in the interest of a class of capitalist investors who may be living thousands of miles away and whose very names are unknown to him. He is, therefore, interested in every revolt of Labor all over the world, for the very individuals against whom that revolt may be directed may - by the wondrous mechanism of the capitalist system - through shares, bonds, national and municipal debts - be the parasites who are sucking his blood also. That is one of the underlying facts inspiring the internationalism of Labor and Socialism."

[Flying Purple People Eater]

why should foreign workers help them when workers of their own country are not willing to? and the only reason which Greek workers are not willing to help them is because they are not true communists. they are sectarians, opportunists and trotskyists who are willing to rely on help from politically backward foreign workers, naives who dont even know them or those who are betraying workers in their own countries and are willing to supporting groups with a same rule abroad.

only miserable sectarians will need money from abroad while they can legally gather it from workers of their own country.

Hashem.

Internationalist.


:lol:

[hashem]

Does the names Friedrich Engels and Karl Marx mean anything to you? One certainly fits the definition of a "rich friend" and both were active in exile for the german, and indeed the international, worker's struggle.

because you are unable to reason, you are changing the question. was germanys worker movement dependent on Engels money?

if Greek worker and communist organizations were banned or were in exile, financial aid to them was logical (from proletariat point of view). but when some opportunists call themselfs communist but they need money from abroad while nothing is stopping them from gathering it from workers which they face everyday, it means they are unrelated to workers struggle (if not harmful).

by giving money to opportunists, you are supporting them against real Greek communists.

[ind_com]

As the crisis in Greece intensifies - and therefore the Class Struggle as well - shouldn't we support our Greek Communists financially with donations? Perhaps these donations could be used for propaganda and raising awareness in Greek workers. Even if we would all just give a little, combined it could make a small difference.

This may be naive though. It's just an idea.

It will not make any significant difference financially, but it will give them some moral boost.

[Crux]

because you are unable to reason, you are changing the question. was germanys worker movement dependent on Engels money?

if Greek worker and communist organizations were banned or were in exile, financial aid to them was logical (from proletariat point of view). but when some opportunists call themselfs communist but they need money from abroad while nothing is stopping them from gathering it from workers which they face everyday, it means they are unrelated to workers struggle (if not harmful).

by giving money to opportunists, you are supporting them against real Greek communists.

Yes I gladly support marxists in any country against the likes of you. You mad?

[hashem]

Yes I gladly support marxists in any country against the likes of you. You mad?

No. why should i be? im happy to see Greek opportunists are so desperate and isolated among workers that they need money from abroad, while communists are gaining trust of more masses of workers and toilers.

[Crux]

No. why should i be? im happy to see Greek opportunists are so desperate and isolated among workers that they need money from abroad, while communists are gaining trust of more masses of workers and toilers.

Yes I know you are not above using the chimera of "outside agitators". It is after all the classical accusation thrown against revolutionaries by the establishment and the reformists. Let's be clear though, while they iamigine it to be some kind of shady foreign conspiracy, it is in fact the expression of solidarity by revolutionary workerd across the borders. Your "title" says internationalist, but it's quite apparent you are no such thing.

[Philosophos]

Well we could use some help but as in every revolution we must first organise, otherwise all the money will be spent and we won't have any actual results.

Right now people are turning to the "left" SYRIZA (or the new PASOK as I like to call)
or the far right GD... Greek people are not ready yet for a major change so you can't put all your hopes in giving money--->changing the country.

Anyway what we need the most is some people that know how to use words (professors etc)so they can make the communist/anarchist or whatsoever ideas known to the public and especially make workers realise where they belong: IN THE WORKING CLASS!!!! Otherwise the money will scratch capitalism's back a little bit and nothing more :(